MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[tierneysain]

I wanted to send a message to anyone on here, if there is any particular case for MO that you want me to look up while I am at the Library tomorrow, please send me a PM with dates and any info and I will be more than happy to get them.

 

[tierneysain]

Okay, I've got the Original Articles two from the St.Louis Globe Democrat and One from the St.Louis Post Dispatch. I'm trying to load but having problems, help. I can maybe email them to someone who knows. They are TIF I don't know how to change, but will try.

 

[tierneysain]

The one thing I notice while searching for this in the microfilm department is the amount of People released from prison for over crowding, almost everyday there were release notices. Also, so many kids taken into the foster system, Missouri and Illinois because of neglect. Ugghhhhh.

 

[Ambercat]

:bump: I wonder if Telethia R. Good has been compared to the unidentified little girl -- she would be 11 or 12 in February 1983?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/good_telethia.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3028dfmd.html
The distance between Baltimore and St. Louis might make this unlikely. Her family has ties to New Jersey and Virginia, there is no mention of any locations further west.

 

[Ozark~Mnt~Miss]

As I was reading this thread, a thought occurred to me.....

I will address this question to those of you who are familiar with this case.

Is it possible that this Jane Doe could be a sibling of Erika or are the dates too far apart for this possibility; or even geographically, were the parents in the metro area of St. Louis?

 

[tatertot]

Ozark~Mnt~Miss, IMHO there is probably no connection aside from the decapitation. Per the article linked below, Erica was three at the time of her death in 2001, so she was probably born around 1998. Yellow Sweater Jane Doe would have been born between 1972 and 1975 if she was 8-11 years old in 1983. While it's not impossible to have siblings who are 20+ years apart in age, the article also stated Erica's mother was 30 and her stepfather was 25 in 2005. They were entirely too young to be involved in Jane Doe's case.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20147633,00.html

 

[not_my_kids]

I thought I would post this, as I had not seen this picture before.

From Namus: https://identifyus.org/en/cases/3199

I am not sure if the link will go right where I want it to, so if it doesn't, flip to the pictures section....The middle picture shows the investigators at the time holding up the sweater that was later lost. It gives a much better idea of the size of the sweater, as opposed to the picture of it just laying on a table. It looks large, not a child's size, really.

There are also no rule-outs listed on Namus. Would I call the medical examiner or the detective about getting them listed?

 

[not_my_kids]

I went back through Namus, looking for something new, and found a few missing that I hadn't directly addressed before.

Yolanda Williams:
I am not sure whether I have discussed her before or not. When Jane Doe was found her weight was estimated at 70lbs. and her height was estimated at 4'10. Yolanda would have been about 13 in 1983, putting her a little above the age range, but I have my doubts about Jane Doe's age. Yolanda and three other kids went missing from Compton, CA after a housefire where Yolanda's mother was later found dead. At the time she disappeared, Yolanda was 4 feet tall and weighed 55 lbs. I will have to look and see if I have already ruled her out.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6807/9/

One that I hadn't seen before or have I seen mentioned, unless I missed her...
Sherise Magee
She was only a year old in 1975 when she went missing from Clark Co. NV, but that would have made her about 8 years old in 1983. She was taken by a family member, and Det. Carroll believes that Jane Doe was killed by family. Sherise was only 3 feet tall and 27 lbs when she was abducted, but it's hard to predict how much someone will change between the ages of 1 and 8. There also is not a DNA sample on file yet (I think they are still in the testing stages) for Sherise.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4909/10/

Just some ideas that I was working on. I am not sure about Yolanda, but Sherise's case is all new to me, so I thought I would post it here, especially since I can't recall her name being on the rule out list I got from the Detective.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

LawAbiding, I agree with you that she was not likely from out of state, or if so, not from far out of state (East St. Louis maybe?). I'm not with you yet on the familial involvement.

The evidence seems to indicate that she was killed and brutalized elsewhere than the building where she was found, due to lack of blood at the scene--but maybe not too far away?

In looking at some of the images in links posted on this thread, I noticed that the stains on the front of her yellow sweater indicate that the killer was probably right-handed.

There've got to be a lot more clues buried here than we realize.

My thought of using Familial DNA is even more farfetched, being that I propose using the unidentified VICTIM'S DNA to search for a potential match with the father, mother or a sibling having a criminal history where DNA has been taken. As of now Familial DNA using the "traditional method" is still not allowed use in most states so "my method" is certainly farfetched to say the least.

 

[Ambercat]

My thought of using Familial DNA is even more farfetched, being that I propose using the unidentified VICTIM'S DNA to search for a potential match with the father, mother or a sibling having a criminal history where DNA has been taken. As of now Familial DNA using the "traditional method" is still not allowed use in most states so "my method" is certainly farfetched to say the least.

I know in California that it is possible to get an exception (this is how Lonnie David Franklin Jr. was caught, because his son was in the database. I wish they would do this for EAR-ONS; for a while they said they were looking into it. Unless they did and nothing came of it?) but it is difficult. I wonder if you could get an exception in Missouri? It would really be worth it to find out who this girl is; I have a feeling if she is identified, her killer will probably be identified as well.

On a separate note, I thought, further back in the thread that Yolanda Williams had been ruled out (I'm not sure how). I could be wrong about this, though.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I know in California that it is possible to get an exception (this is how Lonnie David Franklin Jr. was caught, because his son was in the database. I wish they would do this for EAR-ONS; for a while they said they were looking into it. Unless they did and nothing came of it?) but it is difficult. I wonder if you could get an exception in Missouri? It would really be worth it to find out who this girl is; I have a feeling if she is identified, her killer will probably be identified as well.

I remember the Lonnie David Franklin Jr. case, aka "The Grim Sleeper" case being featured on a few episodes of America's Most Wanted over the years. When I read it was solved using Familial DNA I was shocked. I'm not sure if there's an instance where a unidentified victim's DNA has been used in a Familial DNA search in the U.S. or elsewhere? I agree that a Familial DNA search could help solve this case and many many others.

 

[carbuff]

I remember the Lonnie David Franklin Jr. case, aka "The Grim Sleeper" case being featured on a few episodes of America's Most Wanted over the years. When I read it was solved using Familial DNA I was shocked. I'm not sure if there's an instance where a unidentified victim's DNA has been used in a Familial DNA search in the U.S. or elsewhere? I agree that a Familial DNA search could help solve this case and many many others.

It took about a year of planning, court approvals, and other procedural roadblocks to get the permissions needed to run the familial DNA for the Gril Sleeper. The possibilities for privacy abuse are immense.

 

[misslindsay]

I see it's being said upthread that the body was discovered in University City, not St. Louis city. This is incorrect. I think some people are confused as Clemens Ave is right off of Delmar, a street that runs through all of U City, but 5635 Clemens is in St. Louis city. It's not U City until you cross Skinker on Delmar -- this location is north of U City and is definitely in St. Louis.

 

[Azriell]

Just ran across this article.

https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/29664/unsolved_murder_jane_doe?coverpage=2830

"On the 30th anniversary of one of the most baffling, horrendous and bizarre crimes in the history of the St. Louis Police Department, the case has taken on a new sordid detail.

The grave of the unidentified, headless girl who was murdered in 1983 can't be found in the abandoned, derelict Washington Park Cemetery near Interstate 70 and Lambert Airport."

 

[Kaliste]

Just ran across this article.

https://www.stlbeacon.org/#!/content/29664/unsolved_murder_jane_doe?coverpage=2830

"On the 30th anniversary of one of the most baffling, horrendous and bizarre crimes in the history of the St. Louis Police Department, the case has taken on a new sordid detail.

The grave of the unidentified, headless girl who was murdered in 1983 can't be found in the abandoned, derelict Washington Park Cemetery near Interstate 70 and Lambert Airport."

This poor little girl. I'm hopeful that once the remains are recovered and DNA is taken she will get her name back.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

This is another little unidentified girl I have followed very closely too.What do they mean they can't find her grave site?I'm confused.This is the picture I had for her head stone.I don't remember where I got it.I'm sure other people must have this picture too.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

They say in this article they did exhume her body or was going to? The article says they visited the grave site.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=53910

 

[taramarie]

All of these cases completely break my heart, but this case makes every single little cell in my body feel sick. I want so badly for this little girl to get her name back and for her disgusting monster of a murderer to be brought to justice. Unfortunately, I just don't know if either of these things will ever happen and that makes this entire case feel so much worse.

 

[tatertot]

Ms Suzanne, I'm confused as well. The main Porchlight thread for her:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=6705&st=0&#last

The news article in post #3 mentions she was buried "on the southern side" of the cemetery, and that months later schoolchildren raised money to buy her a tombstone.

Post #4 mentions a "half-dozen news reporters" present at the funeral. Surely a few photos must have been taken and perhaps the newspapers' archives might still contain some of these photos, whether they were actually published or not?

Later in this same article, it is stated that memorials were left at the graveside and homicide detective Joe Burgoon videotaped the location of the grave:

Burgoon years ago videotaped the location of Jane Doe's grave for police records, afraid that when he died, she would be lost forever amid the tangled shrubbery.

So if her grave cannot be found, was the headstone stolen or moved sometime after the photo was taken? And where is Joe Burgoon's videotape documenting the location?

 

[tatertot]

This article explains it well:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ef7aca67-2f9f-5c76-9516-4285802f338f.html

The donated headstone was put on the wrong grave in 1984, and in the 1980s workers began burying bodies on top of each other.

On the bright side, some really good-hearted people are manning the search to find her gravesite.