Found Deceased MO - Toni Anderson, 20, North Kansas City, 15 Jan 2017 #6

[Hiandmighty]

Max, I wouldn't necessarily be suspicious if the area was a known dumping ground for cars from theft and insurance fraud or other known accidents of boats pulling cars in water, etc. (popped out of gear).

 

[BamiesFan]

This fact remains. Coming from the east on MO-9 ----In order to get to this park you must turn left toward the river onto Main Street. You will have to cross the railroad tracks and then go across a one lane bridge before winding through the banks of the Mighty MO.

I just don't think you accidentally go to this park. It sounds like this girl got around town in her car a lot. Trips to Lawrence, job near stadiums, apartment in heart of downtown, college class just off the plaza, bank in Parkville, association with Shady Lady on E12th.... It sounds like she was experienced navigating KC. I believe that she went to that park for a purpose. I just don't know what that purpose is.

 

[Hiandmighty]

With my experience, it is totally possible she drove down and thought she saw water, undid her seat belt and rolled down her window to crane her neck to see better. Put car in reverse, but with the front wheel drive car, the weight is in the front and a variety of factors come together to drag the car, which is still in reverse, down into the water. She panics, unsure what to do and isn't fast enough to do anything...

Very possible...

Doesn't explain why she is there in the first place, though...

 

[sthom1]

Long time lurker of WS. I haven't posted before. I am unsure how to contact a mod from my phone but a screenshot from WS is being shared on SM regarding this case... Is that ok?


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[AceDetective]

I know everyone is pretty convinced the car went down the ramp but this is not known for sure, so keep an open mind.

Does anyone know the strength of the current in that river? Her car looks pretty beat up, the roof is completely smashed in. Is this simply caused by the current pushing the car against the bottom?

I'm going to guess that a Ford Focus will float for about a minute and a half from entering the water until hitting the river bottom. Also, 5 miles per hour is a reasonable guess for the flow rate of the Missouri River in January. That gives 0.025 hours x 5 miles per hour = 0.125 miles = 660 feet.

That car just happened to be found about 660 feet from a boat ramp. There are no signs the car went in anywhere else. The chances that the car didn't go down that boat ramp are very near 0%.

 

[Suglo]

Long time lurker of WS. I haven't posted before. I am unsure how to contact a mod from my phone but a screenshot from WS is being shared on SM regarding this case... Is that ok?


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I just saw it also and flagged your post for a moderator to see. Taking screenshots and posting elsewhere is against the rules. You were right to say something.

 

[n_6CC]

Wow. SMH

I feel so horrible for this young woman. What happened to her is horrible but it seems everything in the investigation has been done poorly. The least that can be done for her is to throughly investigate competently and properly.



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THANK YOU!! My sentiments exactly.


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[Deleted member 155000]

I agree, I think these accidents are common and it's plausible in this case.

However, this one, I am becoming more and more skeptical of the more I look at it. Honestly, I think that SUV being in the same spot is maybe the largest red flag I see. The fact that it was so quickly deemed as unrelated was not giving me a feeling they were interested in investigating anything at all.

For instance, since we know this car was a stolen vehicle. If the windows were broken or there was a way for a body to float out of that vehicle, who's to say that we couldn't define this location as a dumping location for bodies/cars?

So there might not be a direct link to this particular case, but if that vehicle was dumped there, then why doesn't it make sense logically that the same person might use the same location to make another car disappear?

To me, it's the same concept as if you found a body in a field and then you found another body... You'd logically suspect that they were buried by the same person. So two different missing person/murder cases, but the same murderer.


It's confusing to me how in what seemed like an hour or two after that vehicle was found, it was deemed unrelated. Strange imo.


I definitely see the possibility of an accident here in this case, but if that SUV wasn't there, I'd be more likely to exclude foul play. I think someone should be looking for a body that has possibly been found along the missouri river in the last year. Just to be thorough. there might be some way to connect that vehicle to such a body. In turn, that body might have a connection to a person in this case.

I think that's a valid point, Max. Have you searched at all for any reports of other vehicles or bodies fished out near there in the past? A pattern might change the likelihood for me some too...


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[Deleted member 155000]

I'm going to guess that a Ford Focus will float for about a minute and a half from entering the water until hitting the river bottom. Also, 5 miles per hour is a reasonable guess for the flow rate of the Missouri River in January. That gives 0.025 hours x 5 miles per hour = 0.125 miles = 660 feet.

That car just happened to be about 660 feet from a boat ramp. There are no signs the car went in anywhere else. The chances that the car didn't go down that boat ramp are very near 0%.

I agree the car likely went down the ramp. Most likely scenario for sure. And while estimates I have read suggest cars sink in 30-60 seconds, I like the math and formula you're applying too.

The only reason I don't close the book on it is I have seen objects and vehicles uncovered far from where I would expect after going into the water. Sometimes they defy logic. This vehicle was in the water for a long time, allegedly at least, so it probably sank and has been collecting silt ever since. But it could also have been lodged and dislodged and drifted a bit a few times in the weeks since it went in. Not sure how ice and melting would impact water flow. Also don't know if DNR adjusts water levels through a dam etc. I favor your theory though.


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[kanzz]

I agree, I think these accidents are common and it's plausible in this case.

However, this one, I am becoming more and more skeptical of the more I look at it. Honestly, I think that SUV being in the same spot is maybe the largest red flag I see. The fact that it was so quickly deemed as unrelated was not giving me a feeling they were interested in investigating anything at all.

For instance, since we know this car was a stolen vehicle. If the windows were broken or there was a way for a body to float out of that vehicle, who's to say that we couldn't define this location as a dumping location for bodies/cars?

So there might not be a direct link to this particular case, but if that vehicle was dumped there, then why doesn't it make sense logically that the same person might use the same location to make another car disappear?

To me, it's the same concept as if you found a body in a field and then you found another body... You'd logically suspect that they were buried by the same person. So two different missing person/murder cases, but the same murderer.


It's confusing to me how in what seemed like an hour or two after that vehicle was found, it was deemed unrelated. Strange imo.


I definitely see the possibility of an accident here in this case, but if that SUV wasn't there, I'd be more likely to exclude foul play. I think someone should be looking for a body that has possibly been found along the missouri river in the last year. Just to be thorough. there might be some way to connect that vehicle to such a body. In turn, that body might have a connection to a person in this case.

imo, The SUV being in the same place seems to say that both vehicles likely went down the boat ramp. For the people who stole and disposed of the SUV, the easiest and quickest way to put it into the river would be to put it in neutral and let it go down the ramp.

I am assuming LE immediately got the VIN on the SUV and that's how they knew it was stolen; and they were then able to verify somehow that it couldn't be related.

 

[Hiandmighty]

There is a body of water in New Orleans that LE has to drain every few years to pull stolen and ditched cars out of. I think last time they pulled out 50 something cars and this body of water is not deep or with a strong current.

Don't underestimate how many cars could be around the boat launch but they can't see or retrieve because of the river silt.

Example: http://www.fox8live.com/story/24011528/more-cars-to-be-removed-from-bayou-st-john

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

I will be one that says I still think this was an accident. Icy slope. I am reminded of Terrilynn Monette in NOLA. The last WS thread on her is here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...leans-2-Mar-2013-4&highlight=terrilyn+monette

I see many theories alleging foul play here and appreciate reading the logic and ideas behind those theories but still think this was a tragic accident.

If it was not, I hope that one day real factual answers come for those who knew and loved this beautiful woman.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I will be one that says I still think this was an accident. Icy slope. I am reminded of Terrilynn Monette in NOLA. The last WS thread on her is here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...leans-2-Mar-2013-4&highlight=terrilyn+monette

I see many theories alleging foul play here and appreciate reading the logic and ideas behind those theories but still think this was a tragic accident.

If it was not, I hope that one day real factual answers come for those who knew and loved this beautiful woman.

I still think many of us find accident to be most plausible too. But we just want to make sure all possibilities are explored and all evidence is examined before drawing formal conclusions.


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[IllinoisMissing]

Surprised to still see so many posts here. I am firmly in the accident camp. But I don't think we will ever know with any certainty.

JMO

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[kanzz]

The lack of adequate signage is reprehensible. I realize I've been a broken record about this ever since the day after Toni was pulled out of that river. If I knew her parents, I'd encourage them to raise a little hell about it. And the parks department needs to correct the problem immediately.


In addition to Boat Ramp signs, they need caution signs.

"Road Ends In Water - *advertiser censored* Feet",

They should also paint it on the pavement. More than once.

 

[tlcya]

ADMIN NOTE: Some posts have been removed.

Toni's parents have lost their child. They are victims. If not of foul play then of a horrific accident that took their daughter's life. Treat them as such.

If you find yourself unable to do so then kindly sit on your hands.

 

[marsyao]

She would had to have been trying to roll down the window before being submerged in the water fully. I have a feeling automatic window controls wouldn't work under water, because of the electronics and possibly the force of the water against the window.

So if she tried to roll it down to escape before the vehicle was fully submerged in water, I'd guess she'd try to just open the door instead.

My guess is the window was down before while she was driving. JMO.


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automatic window controls did not necessary failed immediately after submerge into the water, just need few seconds for the window to roll down, especially if she push the button before her car submerged completely

 

[MaxManning]

[video=youtube;suQRO4YIimA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suQRO4YIimA[/video]

Notice any similarities?

 

[marsyao]

The lack of adequate signage is reprehensible. I realize I've been a broken record about this ever since the day after Toni was pulled out of that river. If I knew her parents, I'd encourage them to raise a little hell about it. And the parks department needs to correct the problem immediately.


In addition to Boat Ramp signs, they need caution signs.

"Road Ends In Water - *advertiser censored* Feet",

They should also paint it on the pavement. More than once.

Wouldn't any use if the area is not adequate lit, you could miss the sign even with head light on

 

[StPauliGirlK]

This was her lifestyle. Nothing out of the ordinary for her to be up wee hours.

Exactly. Having gone through night owl phases in my life, there is a good chance that she was alert and even a little revved after after work...especially if she was physically active in a high-energy place. We have to be careful about assuming she was tired just because we would be tired during those hours.