Motive For Murder

[Roy23]

The article does say that he had an issue with her. This could be faulty information.

P.S. Roy23, not trying to dissent with what you are saying...I guess I am trying not to believe everything I read in the media anymore, but at some point, I guess we have to believe some things we read! Most likely, this reporter had it right...thanks

I have no problem with you, Columbo. I think this part is true because it is so specific and originally came from a reporter that is very reputable.

 

[Roy23]

so is it a definite that no sexual assault occurred? is there was an assault, is there a reason why LE would hold that back from becoming public at this time?

They said "NO sexual assault".

 

[msfittz]

The article does say that he had an issue with her. This could be faulty information.

P.S. Roy23, not trying to dissent with what you are saying...I guess I am trying not to believe everything I read in the media anymore, but at some point, I guess we have to believe some things we read! Most likely, this reporter had it right...thanks

Clearly this guy isn't a normal, rational thinking person, so it could be that the overcrowding of cages, and a "blow off" response from Annie could incite him to the point of murder.

But, MOO, that it seems MORE likely for someone to respond the way he did if her were "cornered" and had something at stake beyond the wellbeing of the mice. Specifically that Annie was going to report him, file a complaint or something like that.

I suppose Annie could have claimed to escalate the issue even if he was accusing her. Maybe he excessively hassling her about his gripe, she had enough it, and was like, "That's it. I'm reporting this."

Regardless, I hope we someday find out what his motive was.

Again. JMO

 

[Roy23]

No, I didn't think you were saying that. But this seems strange to me:

ABC News has also learned that Clark sent a text message to Le early Tuesday, Sept. 8, requesting a meeting to discuss the cleanliness of the the cages of the mice in the research lab.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/annie-le-suspect-raymond-clark-released-giving-dna/story?id=8588970

What could make sense is if she was leaving some mess from her experiments in the cages...or that she put too much equipment in the cages and it was preventing him from (somehow) doing his job. He would probably not be expected to clean up after her. But he would be expected to clean up after the mice.

Getting to motive, I imagine that there must an animosity between the techs vs the academics..and he felt it intensly. He used the "rules" (protocols) to get back at the people he resented most. So, he called Annie to task for some rule he felt she had broken and she went with the protocols to defend herself. Like many animal lovers, he justified his rage by his "love for animals", by saying to himself, JH and family "no one should treat a defensless animal that way". If it does come out this way, I would not be surprised if he becomes a hero in the eyes of some extreme animal activists.

Until todays press conference when the chief of police denied that there was any romantic relationship between Clark and Annie, I would have bet they were ex-lovers. After all, Tuba told us that Annie was not in harmony with her marriage. That sounds to me that she might have had an affair and was not completely free from it. His ex-girlfriend claimed he raped her when she tried to break up with her, so if he had an affair with Annie, he might have done the same and then killed her.

But the Chief seemed so convinicing today that there was no romantic involvement between the two. So, I am going for the scenario above.

Yep, me too.

I think the ABC article is what is confusing people here. From other reports, the word cleanliness might not be real accurate.

 

[Roy23]

Clearly this guy isn't a normal, rational thinking person, so it could be that the overcrowding of cages, and a "blow off" response from Annie could incite him to the point of murder.

But, MOO, that it seems MORE likely for someone to respond the way he did if her were "cornered" and had something at stake beyond the wellbeing of the mice. Specifically that Annie was going to report him, file a complaint or something like that.

I suppose Annie could have claimed to escalate the issue even if he was accusing her. Maybe he excessively hassling her about his gripe, she had enough it, and was like, "That's it. I'm reporting this."

Regardless, I hope we someday find out what his motive was.

Again. JMO

I would be willing to bet that you are right. There was an issue and at first Annie owned up and was conciliatory. But that day for whatever reason, she was not as docile. She challenged him somehow.

 

[Gene]

After I wrote this:

Getting to motive, I imagine that there must an animosity between the techs vs the academics..and he felt it intensly. He used the "rules" (protocols) to get back at the people he resented most. So, he called Annie to task for some rule he felt she had broken and she went with the protocols to defend herself. Like many animal lovers, he justified his rage by his "love for animals", by saying to himself, JH and family "no one should treat a defensless animal that way". If it does come out this way, I would not be surprised if he becomes a hero in the eyes of some extreme animal activists.

If found this in the comments section of the article below written by SC:
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/16/news/new_haven/doc4ab0f8c64f569632844012.txt

The latest report about the possible motive for this murder is that the alleged killer RC as an animal lover was very disturbed about the way Annie Le was treating the animals. I'm sorry to say I called that one. It's unfortunate and tragic that she had to loose her life, equally tragic for the killer if that was the reason. Maybe it will help to shine a spotlight on these unnecessary and cruel practices. These animal cruelties in research labs which are done mostly for the pursuit of ambition needs to stop

As you can see, some so called animal lovers seem to sympathize more with RC than with Annie.....amazing...

 

[awakewriter]

Yeah, I think those who are saying the motive had to do with protocols is right.

This is a guy in a low-level position, trying to exert as much authority as he can. I'd bet he is very controlling and doesn't like people telling him what to do.

I think this is a matter of his compulsive need to enforce perfect compliance with procedures.

IMO, I think the fact that he works with mice is a side issue. His job could have been to keep paper clips stocked or floors mopped. It's about his need for control.

 

[Labrat]

"biology of the laboratory mouse"... lots of great info here despite being written eons ago. maybe something can be gleaned from it about possible cleanliness/protocol slights?



http://www.informatics.jax.org/greenbook/frames/frame4.shtml

A true classic.

I am sure it covers appropriate mouse care for back then, but I think things are a lot more involved now.

This would be what you are looking for- http://iacuc.yale.edu/index.html

 

[Labrat]

After I wrote this:



If found this in the comments section of the article below written by SC:
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/16/news/new_haven/doc4ab0f8c64f569632844012.txt

The latest report about the possible motive for this murder is that the alleged killer RC as an animal lover was very disturbed about the way Annie Le was treating the animals. I'm sorry to say I called that one. It's unfortunate and tragic that she had to loose her life, equally tragic for the killer if that was the reason. Maybe it will help to shine a spotlight on these unnecessary and cruel practices. These animal cruelties in research labs which are done mostly for the pursuit of ambition needs to stop

As you can see, some so called animal lovers seem to sympathize more with RC than with Annie.....amazing...

I am not amazed. This is absolutely typical.

 

[Roy23]

After I wrote this:



If found this in the comments section of the article below written by SC:
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/16/news/new_haven/doc4ab0f8c64f569632844012.txt

The latest report about the possible motive for this murder is that the alleged killer RC as an animal lover was very disturbed about the way Annie Le was treating the animals. I'm sorry to say I called that one. It's unfortunate and tragic that she had to loose her life, equally tragic for the killer if that was the reason. Maybe it will help to shine a spotlight on these unnecessary and cruel practices. These animal cruelties in research labs which are done mostly for the pursuit of ambition needs to stop

As you can see, some so called animal lovers seem to sympathize more with RC than with Annie.....amazing...

You may be right but I can't imagine it being true because an animal lover in the sense you are speaking would never be able to do that kind of job to begin with. We should stay tuned, though.

 

[Labrat]

We are sure he complained about her. Go read it. I am aware of faulty information but not once has it been said that she had an issue with him. Cleaning cages was his job and not part of her protocols.

No, we are sure he complained TO her. If he had complained ABOUT her, the animal care supervisor would be the one speaking to her about whatever the issue was.

 

[Labrat]

Yeah, I think those who are saying the motive had to do with protocols is right.

This is a guy in a low-level position, trying to exert as much authority as he can. I'd bet he is very controlling and doesn't like people telling him what to do.

I think this is a matter of his compulsive need to enforce perfect compliance with procedures.

IMO, I think the fact that he works with mice is a side issue. His job could have been to keep paper clips stocked or floors mopped. It's about his need for control.

I agree completely. If there was a serious issue, he should not have been handling it himself.

 

[Gene]

You may be right but I can't imagine it being true because an animal lover in the sense you are speaking would never be able to do that kind of job to begin with. We should stay tuned, though.

I do not agree. There have been many, many animal lovers who have worked in animal labs and then have become "whistle blowers" and reported the mis-treatment of animals (EG Michele Rokke at HLS). They take films and then release them to the public, all the while participating in experiments in order to keep their cover.

Also, some animal lovers do understand the need for animal experimentation and are there to make sure that the animals are treated humanely. He may have seen himself as sort of a protector of animals and lashed out at Annie due to what he saw as possible mis-treatment. I see this as a VERY likely scenario.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

They said "NO sexual assault".

I haven't seen this yet. Could you please point me to the link? Thanks~

 

[Roy23]

I do not agree. There have been many, many animal lovers who have worked in animal labs and then have become "whistle blowers" and reported the mis-treatment of animals (EG Michele Rokke at HLS). They take films and then release them to the public, all the while participating in experiments in order to keep their cover.

Also, some animal lovers do understand the need for animal experimentation and are there to make sure that the animals are treated humanely. He may have seen himself as sort of a protector of animals and lashed out at Annie due to what he saw as possible mis-treatment. I see this as a VERY likely scenario.

Interesting.

Hasn't be been there for several years, though. Kudos to you if you are right.

 

[HeyJoe]

Until todays press conference when the chief of police denied that there was any romantic relationship between Clark and Annie, I would have bet they were ex-lovers. After all, Tuba told us that Annie was not in harmony with her marriage. That sounds to me that she might have had an affair and was not completely free from it. His ex-girlfriend claimed he raped her when she tried to break up with her, so if he had an affair with Annie, he might have done the same and then killed her.

But the Chief seemed so convinicing today that there was no romantic involvement between the two. So, I am going for the scenario above.

The cause of death strongly insinuates a personal relationship or sexual assault. BUT if they feel that evidence is currently weak or incomplete in that motive, they will be very careful about saying anything to that effect in an official statement. They don't want to contradict themselves if they present a different motive at trial because it would severely jeopardise obtaining a conviction. They certainly don't want reasonable doubt to come into play at trial.

 

[gxm]

This was my original theory. But, not one person has cited anything romantic that knew of either party. Her beauty certainly could be an issue. Especially with him having the mindset that "she thinks she is better than I am" mentality. The problem is that LE has said no sexual assault occurred.

Obsession isn't romance. IMO, whatever RC's underlying issues/psychoses are, it's not about the mice. The mice were just the outlet for his sick mind.

 

[Roy23]

I haven't seen this yet. Could you please point me to the link? Thanks~

Originally Posted by SuziQ
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati..._annie_le.html

(snip)
Lewis said Le, 24, was not sexually assaulted. He called her strangulation death a case of "workplace violence," but would not elaborate on what might have triggered the attack.

 

[Indianagirl]

Obsession isn't romance. IMO, whatever RC's underlying issues/psychoses are, it's not about the mice. The mice were just the outlet for his sick mind.

I absoultely agree, I think one of his issues was obsession over control, perhaps obsessive and compulsive. I also think he felt inadequate being surrounded by so many highly successful individuals. He probably felt like he was looked down upon. Annie probably didn't want to do things his way or made light of a situation that he took seriously and he just snapped.

 

[Roy23]

Obsession isn't romance. IMO, whatever RC's underlying issues/psychoses are, it's not about the mice. The mice were just the outlet for his sick mind.

Like I said, that was my original theory. LE is stating there is no evidence to indicate this. Also, the media is running rampant all week interviewing everyone they can and not one person is suggesting this. He may have had an sexual obsession but LE is pointing to something involving workplace protocols.

I also agree that this is not about mice. It is about a failure to give him respect.