Motive For Murder

[HeyJoe]

I don't like LE's use of that term, "workplace violence"... yeah it was violent... and yeah it was in the workplace... but it was murder plain and simple. Perhaps they said it in that way to stress the fact that there was no romantic relationship and it was not a sexual crime?

Still... workplace violence is putting too pretty of a bow on it for me!

Everybody knows that a murder was committed. What LE and the prosecuting attorneys have to prove for the case to be successfully prosecuted is motive and opportunity.

"Murder" is the crime, "workplace violence" is apparently the motive they are currently working on.

 

[Columbo]

You guys are getting off track.

This isn't about cleaning mouse cages, it is about protocols. She didn't have the problem with him, he had it with her. Thus his complaints made about her. It was about something that was her responsibility.

The protocols include cleaning mouse cages. We aren't sure if he complained about her--it makes more sense that it was the opposite. Her complaining about him. But we aren't sure. There's been a lot of faulty info floating around.

 

[Roy23]

I'm confused too I guess now. Wasn't it also reported that they had an e-mail exchange regarding the cleaning or mice protocol. I thought it mentioned Annie replied back to him in kind of a blow off way. That's why my theory was this guy thought his job gave him more authority than it actually did. I think the bounderies of his job verses hers in this crazy guys mind were messed up. The research is what was important. He thought he was some sort of mice whisperer or something.

The email exchange is different than the texting. The emails could have been days, weeks before the incident occured. I think he texted her the day of the attack to come see him.

 

[Roy23]

The protocols include cleaning mouse cages. We aren't sure if he complained about her--it makes more sense that it was the opposite. Her complaining about him. But we aren't sure. There's been a lot of faulty info floating around.

We are sure he complained about her. Go read it. I am aware of faulty information but not once has it been said that she had an issue with him. Cleaning cages was his job and not part of her protocols.

 

[Avery]

The email exchange is different than the texting. The emails could have been days, weeks before the incident occured. I think he texted her the day of the attack to come see him.

Right, but I was just giving some history to the theory that he was going after her about this and not the other way around. We have reported e mail that shows RC contacting Annie about the protocol issue. Then after the text, it was more clear to conclude that he wanted to meet her about the same thing, IMO.

 

[Roy23]

Right, but I was just giving some history to the theory that he was going after her about this and not the other way around.

Right, we agree.

 

[passionflower]

AMYSMOM........can't find the video you put out and said see the last name of girl that
defended RC........I saw it and now it is gone!
Fill me in on that, I missed something......is that last name mentioned here somehow with the crime? TIA

 

[MomofBoys]

Yeah, I don't think people are clinging on to anything when they bring up a sexual/romantic motive to these murders.

I believe he may have been angry about some criticism or perceived slight re: the lab, but I honestly don't believe Annie would be dead if this guy didn't have some kind of fixation on her. I think it'll come out that the motive was very complex. Maybe Ray felt down about his life, uncertain about his marriage, paranoid about his job, and saw Annie as someone who had everything he wanted--not to mention she was attractive and due to get married to another guy who was probably someone he wanted to be.

Whether he wanted to have her or wanted to BE her, I think he was jealous and obsessed. I also wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of sexual assault, but as we know that's more about control than sex.

I just think there's a lot more at play here than a lab tech going postal, for lack of a better term. Why would Annie be the only target? Why wouldn't he have come in, guns blazing? Why such a physical crime?

The only other scenario I can think of is that she was threatening to go to his boss. Maybe she had given him warnings. But remember the article citing the email where HE confronted her and she responded in a concilliatory way. Why the about face?

 

[f_stills]

I'm confused too I guess now. Wasn't it also reported that they had an e-mail exchange regarding the cleaning or mice protocol. I thought it mentioned Annie replied back to him in kind of a blow off way.

From http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_..._brutal_tale_be_about_mice.html#ixzz0RNhxAFPe

In the e-mails, Clark is said to criticize Le for not adhering to the protocols for tending the mice kept in the basement as part of her lab's ongoing experiments.

Le is said to have responded in a conciliatory tone, promising to keep to the protocols. Investigators wonder if Clark was not satisfied, if resentment suddenly flared to rage, if as crazy as it may seem this was a case of mice and murder.

 

[jess_j]

We are sure he complained about her. Go read it. I am aware of faulty information but not once has it been said that she had an issue with him. Cleaning cages was his job and not part of her protocols.

no, we are not sure. yes, there are reports from the media, but look at how wrong they have been about things. this morning during the presser the police chief even laughed when asked about what the media has been wrong about.

we won't be sure until the arrest warrant is made public or when rc goes to trial.

 

[Roy23]

Yeah, I don't think people are clinging on to anything when they bring up a sexual/romantic motive to these murders.

I believe he may have been angry about some criticism or perceived slight re: the lab, but I honestly don't believe Annie would be dead if this guy didn't have some kind of fixation on her. I think it'll come out that the motive was very complex. Maybe Ray felt down about his life, uncertain about his marriage, paranoid about his job, and saw Annie as someone who had everything he wanted--not to mention she was attractive and due to get married to another guy who was probably someone he wanted to be.

Whether he wanted to have her or wanted to BE her, I think he was jealous and obsessed. I also wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of sexual assault, but as we know that's more about control than sex.

I just think there's a lot more at play here than a lab tech going postal, for lack of a better term. Why would Annie be the only target? Why wouldn't he have come in, guns blazing? Why such a physical crime?

The only other scenario I can think of is that she was threatening to go to his boss. Maybe she had given him warnings. But remember the article citing the email where HE confronted her and she responded in a concilliatory way. Why the about face?

This was my original theory. But, not one person has cited anything romantic that knew of either party. Her beauty certainly could be an issue. Especially with him having the mindset that "she thinks she is better than I am" mentality. The problem is that LE has said no sexual assault occurred.

 

[Avery]

From http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_..._brutal_tale_be_about_mice.html#ixzz0RNhxAFPe

Sorry, I was confused on how she replied back, but my point was there was an exchange about this issue prior to her being killed.

 

[Roy23]

no, we are not sure. yes, there are reports from the media, but look at how wrong they have been about things. this morning during the presser the police chief even laughed when asked about what the media has been wrong about.

we won't be sure until the arrest warrant is made public or when rc goes to trial.

Read the above post from F stills from yours. Don't you think that is a little specific? That would be a hard thing for an irresponsible journalist to make up.

 

[Avery]

I think the issue is going off the rail. I don't think this is about who's job was to clean the cage. Clearly it was his job. We are talking about PROTOCOL. Like, maybe Annie had to put the mice back in a certain place. Something like how the mice are handled prior to or after they are finished with the research aspect they are using them for during lab time.

Labrat, could u give us an idea of what some type of protocols would be that would make Annie and RC interact?

 

[Labrat]

Where I work, that is called an animal technician. I'm fully aware of the job and yes, even our animal care people have my number. If we have a sick or dead animal, I'm the primary contact and I have to know ASAP. If there is a problem with transport, they call the lab first and my cell second. I deal with people in this position daily. I know what they do and how they do it.

Exactly! But ours are called husbandry techs. Missy, were you are, If you were messing up in the room- overcrowding, leaving dirty cages on the floor etc, after the animal tech had spoken to you about it once or twice, wouldn't they turn it over to their supervisor to handle? That's how it is here and I'm wondering if that varies by institution.
I think maybe he was using these complaints to have contact with her, since if he is an animal tech, he would have been correct to speak to hear, but then he should have informed his supervisor for follow up. I can't imagine why he would be the one to take her to task continually like that.

 

[Columbo]

We are sure he complained about her. Go read it. I am aware of faulty information but not once has it been said that she had an issue with him. Cleaning cages was his job and not part of her protocols.

The article does say that he had an issue with her. This could be faulty information.

P.S. Roy23, not trying to dissent with what you are saying...I guess I am trying not to believe everything I read in the media anymore, but at some point, I guess we have to believe some things we read! Most likely, this reporter had it right...thanks

 

[Roy23]

Exactly! But ours are called husbandry techs. Missy, were you are, If you were messing up in the room- overcrowding, leaving dirty cages on the floor etc, after the animal tech had spoken to you about it once or twice, wouldn't they turn it over to their supervisor to handle? That's how it is here and I'm wondering if that varies by institution.
I think maybe he was using these complaints to have contact with her, since if he is an animal tech, he would have been correct to speak to hear, but then he should have informed his supervisor for follow up. I can't imagine why he would be the one to take her to task continually like that.

Do we know for sure that his original complaints were not to a supervisor? I saw one report where the emails were direct to Annie but an original report I saw somewhere said that the emails were from someone other than him.

 

[ilovekitties]

This was my original theory. But, not one person has cited anything romantic that knew of either party. Her beauty certainly could be an issue. Especially with him having the mindset that "she thinks she is better than I am" mentality. The problem is that LE has said no sexual assault occurred.

so is it a definite that no sexual assault occurred? is there was an assault, is there a reason why LE would hold that back from becoming public at this time?

 

[Kat]

According to 9/17 8:25 a.m. presser, "workplace violence."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati..._annie_le.html

(snip)
Lewis said Le, 24, was not sexually assaulted. He called her strangulation death a case of "workplace violence," but would not elaborate on what might have triggered the attack.

thank you awake, suziQ. There is the motive. Workplace violence. I was waiting to hear that from LE. I didn't have a theory.

Now all get to go back and absorb the info from LE into their theories.


FWIW, I enjoyed reading all the theorized motives and none seemed to be to outlandish or unacceptable. Good work everyone.

 

[Gene]

I don't think you missed anything, Gene. It may have been faulty reporting...
BTW, hope you didn't think I was saying he expected her to clean the cages, I meant that the argument was about cleaning the mouse cages.

No, I didn't think you were saying that. But this seems strange to me:

ABC News has also learned that Clark sent a text message to Le early Tuesday, Sept. 8, requesting a meeting to discuss the cleanliness of the the cages of the mice in the research lab.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/annie-le-suspect-raymond-clark-released-giving-dna/story?id=8588970

What could make sense is if she was leaving some mess from her experiments in the cages...or that she put too much equipment in the cages and it was preventing him from (somehow) doing his job. He would probably not be expected to clean up after her. But he would be expected to clean up after the mice.

Getting to motive, I imagine that there must an animosity between the techs vs the academics..and he felt it intensly. He used the "rules" (protocols) to get back at the people he resented most. So, he called Annie to task for some rule he felt she had broken and she went with the protocols to defend herself. Like many animal lovers, he justified his rage by his "love for animals", by saying to himself, JH and family "no one should treat a defensless animal that way". If it does come out this way, I would not be surprised if he becomes a hero in the eyes of some extreme animal activists.

Until todays press conference when the chief of police denied that there was any romantic relationship between Clark and Annie, I would have bet they were ex-lovers. After all, Tuba told us that Annie was not in harmony with her marriage. That sounds to me that she might have had an affair and was not completely free from it. His ex-girlfriend claimed he raped her when she tried to break up with her, so if he had an affair with Annie, he might have done the same and then killed her.

But the Chief seemed so convinicing today that there was no romantic involvement between the two. So, I am going for the scenario above.