Motive For Murder

[Liadan]

What about if Annie had said something innocuous to RC's gf and it had angered him to the point where he wanted confrontation. Or perhaps RC was protecting JH?

 

[Kat]

This may be true, porkchop, but we must consider history. RC has a history of impulsive violence. Annie's history shows nothing of the sort.

To boot, I don't believe she would've achieved all she had and been put into a trusted position as she was if she'd demonstrated impulsive violence, or even a tendency toward it. Sure, people bow to intimidation all the time, but to a 4'11", 90-lb. Asian female? I wouldn't think so.

I missed the documentation that RC has a history of impulsive violence.

I did see a report (article) where a police report was obtained and that a 16 yr old girl made took a complaint out on him. (She has since spoken to the media).

The complaint was not followed through (they did go tell him to leave her alone or they would arrest him IIRC), even though when the complaint was described by the reporter it was implied that a rape had occurred and I don't understand how the state did not follow through on rape charges (even without the consent of the victim to bring forth charges)...perhaps CT has statutes that are different.

Then I've seen comments (from the school, which of course must be taken with a grain of salt because of who made them and why they would make them, such as CYA on behalf of school liability in this murder) that he didn't have anything on his work record that would show a predispostion to crime.

At any rate, I have only seen one previous complaint (no court cases of conviction for violence) and one speeding ticket.

Did I miss something huge here?

When we look at offenders many times they do have a history that is revealed once the "onion is peeled" (a phrase I like to use). I just wondered if I had missed it being reported.

Does a lack of documented violence make him any less a murderer? No. But it could go to motive, if we have someone here that doesn't really have an extensive history we so often see of certain behavoirs that many offenders exhibit before they get to the act of committing murder.

That's all I'm asking about.

 

[Labrat]

If this was a spur-of-the-moment out of control rage thing why would he have an extra set clothing that he is thought to have changed into when he took of his blooding ones?

Lockers and showers are provided for animal techs because they are not allowed to wear street clothes into the facility. They generally are provided several sets of scrubs labelled with their name and rubber boots. They change when they come in in the morning and before going into the facility have to put on paper gowns, masks, bonnets, shoe covers, face mask and surgical gloves. Ours double gown, which means two sets of the disposable stuff.

 

[Labrat]

Unfortunately, this is a common attitude for the "higher level" staff in the lab. We have postdocs (people with PhDs who don't have their own lab yet) who refuse to do basic science experiements because that's "a tech's job". We even have PIs (the boss) talk down to techs because they think they aren't as good as the PI because they "only" have a bachelors or masters degree. They think they are better than everyone who doesn't hold a PhD. People in labs need to realize that without the techs (of all classes and in all departments), the work couldn't get done.

Go Missy! It's true- science is full of special snowflakes.

 

['Ailina]

I missed the documentation that RC has a history of impulsive violence.

Hi, Labrat. No my comments were not based on documentation, but on the report of the rape and comments from his neighbors about suspected domestic disputes. I was simply following the logic that he's been physically abusive to females in the past, which seems to reveal a pattern to me...

...whereas, there's no mention at all of Annie having a violent past or violent tendencies.

Purely speculating.

 

[Kat]

Hi, Labrat. No my comments were not based on documentation, but on the report of the rape and comments from his neighbors about suspected domestic disputes. I was simply following the logic that he's been physically abusive to females in the past, which seems to reveal a pattern to me...

...whereas, there's no mention at all of Annie having a violent past or violent tendencies.

Purely speculating.

Thank you 'Ailina, I have tried to follow as closely as I can but I have to admit my life is a bit hectic these days and I don't always see all the reports.

Have a good day.

 

[Waddles]

I just really don't think there is any connection to romantic or sexual feelings or to JH or anything other than the rage he felt against Annie considering what we know about his psychological make-up -I do think he snapped and although I think signs must have manifested and were overlooked in the past I don't think there has to have been any prior crime committed (apart from the rape) for this one to make sense. I also think "snapping" can clearly turn into murderous intentions and finishing it off and trying to get away with it-again because of his controlling and obsessive nature -which many people appear to be testifying to. Add all the fuel to the rage of who she was; a young pretty successful woman and that she probably defended herself-he was probably misogynistic too-and you get this...And maybe all alone in those isolated rooms of the lab he had once fantasised that a murder would go unnoticed... and then found himself in the action and did the unthinkable-I don't believe there is more to it -although there are admittedly many questions and many strange pieces missing to the puzzle I think we'll be seeing they're not the big huge pieces but that we already know the essence of it.

 

[concentric]

I think it's very possible that all of these things attributed to the "flash point" of murder: jealousy, attraction, resentment, control....

However, I think the primary element in RC's personality was his need for control. His seems to fit the personality profile for serial killers; if you recall, BTK was freakishly controlling about his neighborhood housing association requirements, even measuring cut grass with a ruler.

RC was a stickler for details and protocol as well, calling out people who violated the "shoe covers" regulation. Sounds like he tried to micro-manage everyone around him.

Annie strikes me as one who would "conciliate" to a point, but she would have to be confident and independent to function at her high level at the lab. To me, this would be just the type of situation fertile for a confrontation.

Add to that wedding stress (as someone mentioned in the general thread), perhaps RC's suppressed attraction, his anger at being unable to control those around him...Annie would seem to be a likely target -- petite, conciliatory, obliging (if she did respond to an email he sent), along with the necessary element of opposition to him, which would no doubt spark his violent nature.

-------------------

Excellent post, IMO. I also think it a combination of factors, not just one clear-cut motive. Here's my take on it: She's a superior to him. He resents that this petite woman is bossing him around, so to speak. He also could be the type of person who stereotypes any Asian woman as a sexual object and has a sick obsession to dominate them.

IMO, he probably was trying to rape her, but she fought him off. In a rage then, he strangled her to death.

 

[MLE]

The only incident of workplace choking I can think of is back in the 1990s, when NBA basketball star Latrell Sprewell choked his coach, P.J. Carlesimo, during practice when Carlesimo was telling him how he needed to pass the ball. Sprewell attacked him and choked him on the ground until his teammates pulled him off the coach. A couple of years ago, a woman accused Sprewell of choking her during consentual sex, but he didn't go to jail for that or for the attack on Carlesimo, although the NBA did suspend him for around half the season for that one.

 

[Truthful Lies]

This has been bothering me alllll day....I'm going to throw it out there...please don't pelt me....

What really, really bugs me is that he was a member of the Asian Awareness group in high school. I'm thinking fetish and because of social norms in Asian women (Annie was probably more polite than a lot of girls), he may have interpreted that in the wrong way and snapped when she rebuffed him.

He seems simple-minded (to me) but with a very dark side. I think a nationality fetish was involved..it's glaring to me. I could be wrong, but he doesn't look Asian! =p

 

[Labrat]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/accused-annie-le-murderer-ray-clark/Story?id=8602492&page=2[/QUOTE

Quote:
Sources tell ABC News there were e-mails or text messages between Clark and Le regarding the cleanliness of the lab. Clark's job included cleaning the mice cages in the lab, and in his email to Le he complained that she had left the cages dirty, sources said.

I did some sleuthing today. I had posted earlier that I was a little perplexed that if he had concerns why he didn't go to his supervisor. I thought it a little puzzling that he had told her to come over immediately.

So I went and asked one of the room techs! Duh. I did confirm that my understanding was correct. Speak to the person if you are comfortable with it, or report it to your supervisor. multiple infractions- the supervisor handles it. I had been puzzled about why he was so involved.

So I asked the tech if there was any situation where he would call me up and tell me I had to meet him immediately about dirty cages. It turns out there is! I wasn't aware of this because it doesn't apply to me.

There are special cards you can put on the cages to let the tech know that you do not want them tampering with the cage- that you will take care of it yourself - you are required to put your contact number on these cards. The reasons for this are things such as medicated water bottles, special feed, recovery from surgery, pregnant mice, any case in which you do not want the mice to go through the regular changing schedule.

If the cages are dirty (ammonia build-up) flooded from a bad water bottle, out of food or water, or the mice appear to be in extreme physical distress, the animal technician is REQUIRED to call the investigator to come and correct the situation immediately as the health of the mice cannot be compromised. If the investigator can not be found or refuses to come, the technician can then correct the problem themself.

So it could very well be that he was not being overly controlling about the protocols, or using an excuse to get her over there.

I can not say that this was absolutely the case there- but the possibility that it could be the case clears some things up for me.

 

[Waddles]

This has been bothering me alllll day....I'm going to throw it out there...please don't pelt me....

What really, really bugs me is that he was a member of the Asian Awareness group in high school. I'm thinking fetish and because of social norms in Asian women (Annie was probably more polite than a lot of girls), he may have interpreted that in the wrong way and snapped when she rebuffed him.

He seems simple-minded (to me) but with a very dark side. I think a nationality fetish was involved..it's glaring to me. I could be wrong, but he doesn't look Asian! =p

it was said he wasn't actually a member-a friend said he just jumped in the photo-in past threads

 

[shoebox]

I doubt that it was Annie who instigated the violence. I think in a case where we have a petite young woman without a violent history attacked and killed by a larger man with a violent history, it is reasonable to assume that she was NOT the aggressor.

She may not be the physical agressor but she could have been the verbal agressor which escalated the meeting into physical violence. She's been made to look like a perfect person but remember she teased her friend for not having a butt even to the point of giving her undies with built in butt pads and would send a picture of her butt to the dean of admissions at Princeton after being turned down. It all seems in fun but shows she is capable of saying and doing things that some people may not take lightly. No matter what, RC lost it and is still responsible for his actions.

Let this be a lesson: treat everyone with respect and watch your words or it may come back to haunt you. No one deserves to die from workplace anger.

 

[Waddles]

Thanks Labrat, interesting post

 

[Labrat]

Hi, Labrat. No my comments were not based on documentation, but on the report of the rape and comments from his neighbors about suspected domestic disputes. I was simply following the logic that he's been physically abusive to females in the past, which seems to reveal a pattern to me...

...whereas, there's no mention at all of Annie having a violent past or violent tendencies.

Purely speculating.

Lol- that's not me that's KAT.

 

[nursebeeme]

thank you labrat! That certainly clarifies a lot of things for me as well...

 

[Kat]

Lol- that's not me that's KAT.

Shhh :wink: don't tell her heh

 

[Labrat]

Well if the labcoat was the bloody clothing that they found then looking at him entering and leaving he would be wearing the same clothing which wouldn't raise any flags. So I guess that's not really what tipped them off.

No labcoats are allowed inside an animal facility.

 

[MLE]

Asians aren't necessarily more polite. I had Canadian co-workers in Asia who got laughed at all the time in public because they were very overweight. I mean, it was non-stop. And good luck standing in line in Asia without men and women jumping in front of you left and right.

I don't think his dogs barking and crying is indicative of abuse. When pets are spoiled or miss their owner when he's gone, they'll cry too, especially pups.

If they don't find RC's semen with her body or clothing, I think the obsession motive is diminished.

 

[nursebeeme]

No labcoats are allowed inside an animal facility.

Rat,
do you guys generally use central supply for your scrubs like we do in the hospital?