Mr. Chaz Bono on Oprah, Mon. May 9, 2011

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I am fighting right now using estrogen therapy for hot flashes, if I use them am I wrong? I hope I can endure or better yet my family can endure LOL. Cranky here.

No,you're not wrong !!! LOL That's my point! OP said there was nothing comparable between IVF therapy(acceptable) and transgender procedures (sexual organ mutilation )(not acceptable)
 
I explained why I think they are completely different and not related at all.

No one has to agree with me.

But it's my opinion.
 
Chastity was born a girl. That was God who planned it that way. She is making a fool out of herself going on tv.

On Boubon street in New Orleans these cross dressers are all over. They freak me out...but that's for entertainment.

Chastity is not entertainment. Wonder truly what mom thinks.
 
What if God planned for Chaz to be born transgendered? Maybe that's why his brain is hardwired differently. It might be God has a lesson about accepting difference to teach us. As long as we continue to treat people as freaks we are causing unnecessary suffering. It's easy to be depressed in such a situation.

I don't believe it's as straightforward as "born a girl", or "born a boy" for transgendered individuals. Embryonic development is not an either-or situation in this regard, sometimes it's an in-between thing. The chromosomes may say you're one thing but if there is something unusual going on with the hormone levels, receptors and other factors that play a role you may develop differently than what your chromosomes say. Androgen insensitivity syndrome is an example of this.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome"]Androgen insensitivity syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Androgen_receptor_3-d_model.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Androgen_receptor_3-d_model.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/1/10/Androgen_receptor_3-d_model.jpg[/ame]

Another example could be homosexual identification. It has been shown that boys with older brothers are a little more likely to be homosexual and it is theorized that this is because the hormonal environment in the mother's womb is changed because of previous male pregnancies. The mother might be immunized to certain antigens important in the masculinization of the brain.

IMO it is conceivable that transgender identity may develop because of a similar situation. The sex organs are fully developed earlier than the brain so if there is something going on a bit later in the pregnancy it might not cause a genital abnormality but it might cause the brain to be hardwired differently and lead to a different gender identity. Usually transgender people say they've always known they're different somehow and I see it as a sign that it's probably something they were born with.

If I'm on the right track it's a gross oversimplification to say that a transgendered person is a boy, or a girl, when it might be that their genitals are one thing and their brain is another. IMO the brain is more important than the genitals in determining who we are but that's just me.

IMO talking about depression confuses the issue a little. Anybody can be depressed, regardless of gender identification, and while some depression may be related to the trials one faces as a transgender individual it's a different disorder and one can't IMO conclude that it was wrong to do the sex change operation just because it doesn't solve all the problems. If someone jumps from a building trying to commit suicide and breaks his leg we wouldn't say the doctors should not have operated the leg just because the person continues to be depressed and kills himself soon thereafter. Even if the depression and suicide rates continue to be high among people who have undergone sex change, it is not necessarily indicative that it was wrong for them to have the operation. IMO it may be indicative that depression in that group needs to be screened and treated more actively and that we as a society need to change so we don't make their situation worse by discriminating against them.

If I took part in Dancing with the Stars I would be voted off the first thing because I'm a total nobody and an appalling dancer to boot but I probably wouldn't cause a collective sigh of disgust because of who I am and people wouldn't start to argue about my identity, thinking they know better, wondering if my mother can really love me because I'm such a freak.
 
Chastity was born a girl. That was God who planned it that way. She is making a fool out of herself going on tv.

On Boubon street in New Orleans these cross dressers are all over. They freak me out...but that's for entertainment.

Chastity is not entertainment. Wonder truly what mom thinks.

BBM

:waitasec: What I wonder, truly, is how anyone can even know what God thinks about this. :innocent:

AFAIK, the Supreme Being (in the collective global-religions sense) hasn't actually said anything specifically about Chaz or transgenders. In any language. :dunno:

:cow:
 
What if God planned for Chaz to be born transgendered? Maybe that's why his brain is hardwired differently. It might be God has a lesson about accepting difference to teach us. As long as we continue to treat people as freaks we are causing unnecessary suffering. It's easy to be depressed in such a situation.

I don't believe it's as straightforward as "born a girl", or "born a boy" for transgendered individuals. Embryonic development is not an either-or situation in this regard, sometimes it's an in-between thing. The chromosomes may say you're one thing but if there is something unusual going on with the hormone levels, receptors and other factors that play a role you may develop differently than what your chromosomes say. Androgen insensitivity syndrome is an example of this.
Androgen insensitivity syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another example could be homosexual identification. It has been shown that boys with older brothers are a little more likely to be homosexual and it is theorized that this is because the hormonal environment in the mother's womb is changed because of previous male pregnancies. The mother might be immunized to certain antigens important in the masculinization of the brain.

IMO it is conceivable that transgender identity may develop because of a similar situation. The sex organs are fully developed earlier than the brain so if there is something going on a bit later in the pregnancy it might not cause a genital abnormality but it might cause the brain to be hardwired differently and lead to a different gender identity. Usually transgender people say they've always known they're different somehow and I see it as a sign that it's probably something they were born with.

If I'm on the right track it's a gross oversimplification to say that a transgendered person is a boy, or a girl, when it might be that their genitals are one thing and their brain is another. IMO the brain is more important than the genitals in determining who we are but that's just me.

IMO talking about depression confuses the issue a little. Anybody can be depressed, regardless of gender identification, and while some depression may be related to the trials one faces as a transgender individual it's a different disorder and one can't IMO conclude that it was wrong to do the sex change operation just because it doesn't solve all the problems. If someone jumps from a building trying to commit suicide and breaks his leg we wouldn't say the doctors should not have operated the leg just because the person continues to be depressed and kills himself soon thereafter. Even if the depression and suicide rates continue to be high among people who have undergone sex change, it is not necessarily indicative that it was wrong for them to have the operation. IMO it may be indicative that depression in that group needs to be screened and treated more actively and that we as a society need to change so we don't make their situation worse by discriminating against them.

If I took part in Dancing with the Stars I would be voted off the first thing because I'm a total nobody and an appalling dancer to boot but I probably wouldn't cause a collective sigh of disgust because of who I am and people wouldn't start to argue about my identity, thinking they know better, wondering if my mother can really love me because I'm such a freak.

Very well-written, powerful post.

There was a CNN article recently on transgendered children. That article led to another merely because of the tremendous amount of rage-filled comments by posters. Why?:

The discomfort toward transgender people comes from challenging conventions, said one academic who focuses on social attitudes and behavior.
In American culture, sex and gender belong in one of two categories, said Diane Everett, professor of sociology at Stetson University in DeLand, Florida. As soon as humans are born, the first thing people ask is whether the baby is a boy or girl.
"We tend as a society to put people into boxes," she said. "Someone who is transgender is not only crossing gender boundaries, but also defying them. If people can't relate to you as an either-or, they have a hard time relating to you in their general comfort level."http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/30/health/transgender-discrimination/


It is very common to hate that which one does not understand or cannot categorize. Hence, incredible sea creatures were simply killed by seafarers instead of studied to determine what they were. It reminds me of the South Park episodes where one of the kids' uncles is always trying to kill things when he doesn't know what they are: http://www.hark.com/clips/vnlyfmtsjl-lets-kill-it

"Jimbo:"Are we sure it's Scuzzlebutt?" Stan:"Does it have Patrick Duffy for a leg?" Jimbo:"Well I can't tell. Let's kill it!""
 
I :heartbeat: Chaz. He is an inspiration and I just adore him. I grew up watching his parents and I think he is a fantastic person and a wonderful human being and I wish him all the best on DWTS.

:yourock:
 
Patience-I so agree with you. I admire him for stepping forward, difficult as it may be, and being a voice for others.

PAJS
 
What if God planned for Chaz to be born transgendered? Maybe that's why his brain is hardwired differently. It might be God has a lesson about accepting difference to teach us. As long as we continue to treat people as freaks we are causing unnecessary suffering. It's easy to be depressed in such a situation.

I don't believe it's as straightforward as "born a girl", or "born a boy" for transgendered individuals. Embryonic development is not an either-or situation in this regard, sometimes it's an in-between thing. The chromosomes may say you're one thing but if there is something unusual going on with the hormone levels, receptors and other factors that play a role you may develop differently than what your chromosomes say. Androgen insensitivity syndrome is an example of this.
Androgen insensitivity syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another example could be homosexual identification. It has been shown that boys with older brothers are a little more likely to be homosexual and it is theorized that this is because the hormonal environment in the mother's womb is changed because of previous male pregnancies. The mother might be immunized to certain antigens important in the masculinization of the brain.

IMO it is conceivable that transgender identity may develop because of a similar situation. The sex organs are fully developed earlier than the brain so if there is something going on a bit later in the pregnancy it might not cause a genital abnormality but it might cause the brain to be hardwired differently and lead to a different gender identity. Usually transgender people say they've always known they're different somehow and I see it as a sign that it's probably something they were born with.

If I'm on the right track it's a gross oversimplification to say that a transgendered person is a boy, or a girl, when it might be that their genitals are one thing and their brain is another. IMO the brain is more important than the genitals in determining who we are but that's just me.

IMO talking about depression confuses the issue a little. Anybody can be depressed, regardless of gender identification, and while some depression may be related to the trials one faces as a transgender individual it's a different disorder and one can't IMO conclude that it was wrong to do the sex change operation just because it doesn't solve all the problems. If someone jumps from a building trying to commit suicide and breaks his leg we wouldn't say the doctors should not have operated the leg just because the person continues to be depressed and kills himself soon thereafter. Even if the depression and suicide rates continue to be high among people who have undergone sex change, it is not necessarily indicative that it was wrong for them to have the operation. IMO it may be indicative that depression in that group needs to be screened and treated more actively and that we as a society need to change so we don't make their situation worse by discriminating against them.

If I took part in Dancing with the Stars I would be voted off the first thing because I'm a total nobody and an appalling dancer to boot but I probably wouldn't cause a collective sigh of disgust because of who I am and people wouldn't start to argue about my identity, thinking they know better, wondering if my mother can really love me because I'm such a freak.



That's fascinating . Thanks for digging that up.
I've always believed there's a physiological reason for homosexuality and transgender identity.
I've read a lot about ADHD and a book called "The Edison Gene,the Gift of the Hunter Child" includes a lot of information about what can cause changes in the brain of a developing fetus.
Stress ,in particular ,releases hormones (cortisol? ) that can change the baby's brain.
So much we are still learning and much we'll never know.JMO
 
I think it takes a lot of guts to get on the show like Chaz did but i think his dancing days are numbered. He is not doing well anymore and his injuries are preventing him from progressing forward. I do not think he should be kept on the show because of who he is either. That would not be fair.

Goz
 
Awwwww... Chaz had a much better week. "Feeling Stronger...."

And with his mom - his whole family - in the audience - so genuinely proud! Have to say, IMO, it was really precious - and a pretty great performance - best yet - for him. There's a chance he'll survive the next cut - he's certainly working hard. :thumb:
 
What confuses me is his insistence that his breasts be augmented to resemble a man's (because he really detested having female breasts), but he's ok with keeping his female genitalia, which, to me, far more identify him as a woman. I've seen many men with large breasts, but none with female genitals.

I only read the first page so I don't know if this has already been answered, but the FtM genital surgery doesn't "work" terribly well. They aren't able to make it function anything close to the real thing and usually it reduces sexual pleasure by quite a bit and involved pumps and things. The testosterone they take apparently changes the genitals to look a lot more male without surgery but I haven't actually seen it. My dad's a plastic surgeon and explained it to me - it's like all plastic surgery in that it is much easier to take away than to add. Same reason rhinoplasty works better on caucasians than on asians.
 
Awwwww... Chaz had a much better week. "Feeling Stronger...."

And with his mom - his whole family - in the audience - so genuinely proud! Have to say, IMO, it was really precious - and a pretty great performance - best yet - for him. There's a chance he'll survive the next cut - he's certainly working hard. :thumb:

Chaz is just precious. He's trying so hard and seeing Cher so proud of him-it brought tears to my eyes!!:fence:
 
I only read the first page so I don't know if this has already been answered, but the FtM genital surgery doesn't "work" terribly well. They aren't able to make it function anything close to the real thing and usually it reduces sexual pleasure by quite a bit and involved pumps and things. The testosterone they take apparently changes the genitals to look a lot more male without surgery but I haven't actually seen it. My dad's a plastic surgeon and explained it to me - it's like all plastic surgery in that it is much easier to take away than to add. Same reason rhinoplasty works better on caucasians than on asians.

I have been told the same, at the time a friend was contemplating it, there were 2 choices, an implant where one would have a "semi" at all times, the other option was an implanted pump device.
 
I only read the first page so I don't know if this has already been answered, but the FtM genital surgery doesn't "work" terribly well. They aren't able to make it function anything close to the real thing and usually it reduces sexual pleasure by quite a bit and involved pumps and things. The testosterone they take apparently changes the genitals to look a lot more male without surgery but I haven't actually seen it. My dad's a plastic surgeon and explained it to me - it's like all plastic surgery in that it is much easier to take away than to add. Same reason rhinoplasty works better on caucasians than on asians.

I can certainly understand someone wanting to make their outsides match their insides though. Just from a practical standpoint...Chaz needs to use the bathroom in a public venue. He identifies, lives like and is a man. Yet, he for the time being at least, retains his female genitalia. Thank goodness for stalls in men's rooms, otherwise, what does he do??? The primary motivation for someone choosing to undergo gender reassignment surgery isn't a matter of sexual performance. Some people with unconflicted gender live for years and years without ever using their genitalia at all. :D
 
But non working or semi working "parts" fuel depression.

JMO
 
I can certainly understand someone wanting to make their outsides match their insides though. Just from a practical standpoint...Chaz needs to use the bathroom in a public venue. He identifies, lives like and is a man. Yet, he for the time being at least, retains his female genitalia. Thank goodness for stalls in men's rooms, otherwise, what does he do??? The primary motivation for someone choosing to undergo gender reassignment surgery isn't a matter of sexual performance. Some people with unconflicted gender live for years and years without ever using their genitalia at all. :D

They actually make fake ones you can use for that but totally removable. I saw it on an adult toys site. Not sure if it fools anybody but most guys aren't staring in the bathroom I would assume. They also make little cardboard things for women to pee standing up but without the realistic look ... very handy for camping trips.
 
I only read the first page so I don't know if this has already been answered, but the FtM genital surgery doesn't "work" terribly well. They aren't able to make it function anything close to the real thing and usually it reduces sexual pleasure by quite a bit and involved pumps and things. The testosterone they take apparently changes the genitals to look a lot more male without surgery but I haven't actually seen it. My dad's a plastic surgeon and explained it to me - it's like all plastic surgery in that it is much easier to take away than to add. Same reason rhinoplasty works better on caucasians than on asians.

Do you think the testosterone made Chaz gain all that weight? It doesn't look bad on most of his body but it's too bad his belly had to be so big. I hope he didn't put the weight on on purpose. There's guys out there that are so darn proud of their big bellies.
 
I thought there might be another thread about Chaz somewhere after the reality program has been airing about the transformation into a male has been playing over the weekend. Chaz seems like a very nice, sensitive, humble person. He's very respectful of his mother Cher and her feelings.
I watched Cher's face the other night and she was so full of pride and love for her child.
 

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