MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #10

[wfgodot]

Umm... I was being sarcastic. I think whoever did this, and whoever is working this case, have a lot more on the ball than we give them credit.

I don't. But one can hope. I do.

 

[rbarber17]

Agreed. As said before: there are plenty of potentially what's-up-with-that situations as reported by various sources in this case, but the instance of these two fires feels like a red herring... and I believe FlatFootJoe nailed the gist of it here:

(bracketed text added by me for clarification in understanding - FFJ, please correct me if I misunderstood what you meant, though)

Bottom line: I think we could probably end up unearthing a more sound answer as to the details of this first fire of the evening than we would about the 911 call that alerted the Volunteer Fire Dept to the car fire at Herron Road.

Sez FlatFootJoe: "...At least one of them was set intentionally. In which case we're talking about one fire, and one case of arson..."

This is a basic error in logic. The assertion that the first fire could not have been set intentionally, because the second fire WAS set intentionally, is being used as proof of the assertion that BOTH fires could not have been set intentionally -- i.e. circular reasoning.

:happydance:

 

[rbarber17]

Atttention Firefox:

It has been stated that you are an ex-firefighter with 25 years experience. Would you, or someone you know, have access to the NFIRS database, like the example below from 2006? IF so, would you/they please check the Bynum (54002), Courtland (54005), and Pope (54010) VFD's and the Batesville FD 2014 fire reports for any details on the "first" fire that allegedly occured in Courtland, MS on December 6, 2014?

I would not want anyone to get into trouble, so if accessing the database for unofficial purposes is prohibited, please disregard.

http://www.city-data.com/fire/fire-Courtland-Mississippi.html

https://www.nfirs.fema.gov/NFIRSWBI/jsp/authentication/login.jsp

 

[FelicityLemon]

A thought, Cole may very well have asked "who did this to you?" or asked who was with her. Not sure why they specifically brought in Derrick Iforgothislastname (for two days) and Eric Bibbs, but not the numerous other sounding names that already are known to LE for various crimes. Granted, I've only been watching The Panolian for arrests and holds, but as I came across other names via social media connections, I checked out those, but found no arrests or holds. As far as I can see, Derrick's two day hold for questioning is interesting for it's length.

 

[samantha17]

If she gave the person's name; Then i dont see what the hold up is. Was the name an aquantance of the fire fighter she told so he just switched names on us or what. If not; Then was is taking so long. She told you who did it. So eliminate people with the same name and go after the one with the most circumstantial connections. Jmo

LE has to have solid evidence before making an arrest.

 

[samantha17]

In regards to EB being questioned, from the beginning, I wondered who sent LE to him specifically.

I read that JC said a name and SOMEONE said "the only Eric I know is Eric Bibbs."

Who said that? IMO it had to be someone at the scene because the hunted down Eric Bibbs immediately.

Did the fire chief offer that tidbit of info?

Jus asking

The fire chief didn't offer to name a name .... he stated that he was advised by LE to not state the name she gave.

 

[samantha17]

Did the fire chief offer that tidbit of info?

He more than likely did to LE only.

 

[New1]

In regards to EB being questioned, from the beginning, I wondered who sent LE to him specifically.

I read that JC said a name and SOMEONE said "the only Eric I know is Eric Bibbs."

Who said that? IMO it had to be someone at the scene because the hunted down Eric Bibbs immediately.

Did the fire chief offer that tidbit of info?

Jus asking

I'm thinking it HAD to be Cole Haley if he was the one she supposedly spoke to. The way I have the story pictured in my mind, he was the one who got to Jessica first and "took his coat off and put it around her" (according to one MSM report). The report, however, did not identify him as the one who put his coat around Jessica--it just said one of the first responders did. I am *thinking* it was Cole Haley only because he was the one attending to Jessica and the one who heard whatever it was she might have said (supposedly).

 

[New1]

LE has to have solid evidence before making an arrest.

I thought they only had to have probable cause. If they had to have solid evidence, it would seem that everyone arrested for anything would be found guilty at trial.

 

[PrairieWind]

I thought they only had to have probable cause. If they had to have solid evidence, it would seem that everyone arrested for anything would be found guilty at trial.

You are correct that probably cause is what is required to make an arrest. However, the District Attorney will want to have as much evidence as possible before making that arrest. Once an arrest is made, the clock starts ticking on the defendant's right to a speedy trial. Once that time frame expires, that defendant will walk scott free. So you want as much evidence as possible prior to making the arrest. So even if LE has a good idea who the perp is, there could be good reasons for delay. Could be waiting for lab test results, could be waiting for the perp to make a statement or lead them to evidence, or could be waiting for another suspect to roll over on another. Sometimes LE knows who committed the crime, but obtaining evidence sufficient to get a conviction is difficult. Then they perhaps do have to present this to a grand jury, that takes some time. But, if there is a suspect, rest assured he/she is being followed.

 

[flatfootjoe]

Sez FlatFootJoe: "...At least one of them was set intentionally. In which case we're talking about one fire, and one case of arson..."

This is a basic error in logic. The assertion that the first fire could not have been set intentionally, because the second fire WAS set intentionally, is being used as proof of the assertion that BOTH fires could not have been set intentionally -- i.e. circular reasoning.

:happydance:

I'm well aware of recursion. I was working under the assumption that one fire was a spontaneous accidental occurrence. Forgive my naivete, I have a hard enough time envisioning one team of murderous arsonists burning a girl alive, let alone another complicit team miles away setting another fire to distract or otherwise occupy emergency workers. As you may have noted in the response you colloquially re-quoted the phrase "At least", which means I hadn't eliminated the fact that it was intentionally set, rather that I chose to accept it as accidental.

 

[flatfootjoe]

To the best of my knowledge, LE has not said she spoke the name Eric or Derrick. I could be wrong, but I think Eric Bibbs was the first one I heard explaining why LE came to his house that night. He said they told him there was an accident down the road and his name was mentioned. Well, there was no "accident" down the road--LE knew it wasn't an accident, so that's one lie. Who's to say that his name being mentioned was not a lie also? Why would LE tell Eric Bibbs that Jessica said the name "Eric" and Cole Haley said Jessica said something, but he could not comment on what it was? If LE had already put the names Eric or Derrick out there, why couldn't Cole Haley comment on it since he's the one she supposedly spoke to? LE did call some people named Eric or Derrick in to question them, but they also called in and detained some people whose names sound nothing like Eric or Derrick. I first believed she gave them the name of the killer(s), but then so much of what was reported was not true. I'm not a trusting person. In my experience, if you tell one lie, you'll tell another and another and another. When/if the killer(s) are arrested, I will be feasting on crow if anyone named Eric or Derrick is among them.

Remember one report that said Jessica was found beside her car more dead than alive? Anyone more dead than alive would probably be unconscious and unable to speak. Of course, I don't hang my hat on THAT MSM report either, but it's more believable than her walking around on fire and speaking.

Time and again through the last 10 threads, examples of people we can assume in equally poor condition as Jessica, as a result of fire have been documented speaking shortly after the incident. The inflammation, and edema caused by burns is not immediate. Here is where the introduction of flammable substances to the vocal cords and esophageal tract become important but not completely critical. People can speak without vocal chords, I can testify to that on the first hand. It is hard to hear or sometimes understand, and takes a great deal of effort, but it is possible. If her entire esophagus were obliterated you could assume the trachea suffered the same fate and she would have suffocated prior to emergency response arriving on the scene.

Re Eric/Derrick/Schmerrick etc... I've seen that quote "He said they told him there was an accident down the road and his name was mentioned" Now you could assume that Jessica gave that name, especially the way the story was reported, however, nowhere has anyone said "Jessica said something that sounded like Eric" Only the fact that his name was mentioned. Sha sha seemed a lot more talky before December 7, maybe she said something about Eric, maybe the talky FB people said something about Jerrick, maybe people at a party said something about Derrick. They only said the name was mentioned, and everyone inferred that Jessica was the source of that name. ( A lot of devil's advocating there. I do believe she said a name, and I believe they're working that avenue but don't have adequate evidence to convict) I don't know what name she spoke, but I believe she spoke a name.

I belong to the DTA club too, you want my trust you earn it, it doesn't come freely. A few details leaked and were left to twist in the wind. They've locked every detail of this case down for a reason, only people who were there / or spoke to those who were, are really going to know the details. When someone comes in with a story and can fill in the right blanks, they know they have the truth coming.

 

[New1]

Time and again through the last 10 threads, examples of people we can assume in equally poor condition as Jessica, as a result of fire have been documented speaking shortly after the incident. The inflammation, and edema caused by burns is not immediate. Here is where the introduction of flammable substances to the vocal cords and esophageal tract become important but not completely critical. People can speak without vocal chords, I can testify to that on the first hand. It is hard to hear or sometimes understand, and takes a great deal of effort, but it is possible. If her entire esophagus were obliterated you could assume the trachea suffered the same fate and she would have suffocated prior to emergency response arriving on the scene.

Re Eric/Derrick/Schmerrick etc... I've seen that quote "He said they told him there was an accident down the road and his name was mentioned" Now you could assume that Jessica gave that name, especially the way the story was reported, however, nowhere has anyone said "Jessica said something that sounded like Eric" Only the fact that his name was mentioned. Sha sha seemed a lot more talky before December 7, maybe she said something about Eric, maybe the talky FB people said something about Jerrick, maybe people at a party said something about Derrick. They only said the name was mentioned, and everyone inferred that Jessica was the source of that name. ( A lot of devil's advocating there. I do believe she said a name, and I believe they're working that avenue but don't have adequate evidence to convict) I don't know what name she spoke, but I believe she spoke a name.

I belong to the DTA club too, you want my trust you earn it, it doesn't come freely. A few details leaked and were left to twist in the wind. They've locked every detail of this case down for a reason, only people who were there / or spoke to those who were, are really going to know the details. When someone comes in with a story and can fill in the right blanks, they know they have the truth coming.

You're right, she may have been able to speak a name or names since the response time was so short and the swelling does not happen immediately. What I doubt most is that the names she spoke were Eric or Derrick or anything close to that. I can't explain why, but it's almost as if I have a built-in lie detector in my head sometimes. This is one of those times.

Wasn't CW (auntie Cha Cha *I've heard we are spelling it wrong when we say Sha Sha*) one of the first people called in because her name was in Jessica's phone according to her interview? I don't recall that they called Eric Bibbs in--just that they went to his house, then they called in Derrick Turner, George Mister and Rachael Denise Tudor, (all per their media interviews) and interviewed over a hundred people. I'm hoping they put the names Eric/Derrick out there to lull the real killers into a sense of false security but are investing them thoroughly. The only ones who know for sure she didn't say Eric or Derrick would be the killer(s).

 

[MyBelle]

I'm thinking it HAD to be Cole Haley if he was the one she supposedly spoke to. The way I have the story pictured in my mind, he was the one who got to Jessica first and "took his coat off and put it around her" (according to one MSM report). The report, however, did not identify him as the one who put his coat around Jessica--it just said one of the first responders did. I am *thinking* it was Cole Haley only because he was the one attending to Jessica and the one who heard whatever it was she might have said (supposedly).

I wonder why they put a coat around her. Was it to put out flames or was it because she wasn't wearing a coat and they wanted to provide warmth? Didn't she have a jacket on in the security video?

I also question whether JC said anything at all to CH and if he threw that out there recklessly to "help" find the perp.

JMO

 

[New1]

I wonder why they put a coat around her. Was it to put out flames or was it because she wasn't wearing a coat and they wanted to provide warmth? Didn't she have a jacket on in the security video?

I also question whether JC said anything at all to CH and if he threw that out there recklessly to "help" find the perp.

JMO

I'm assuming the clothes Jessica had on when she was lit afire had burned off.

 

[rbarber17]

I wonder why they put a coat around her. Was it to put out flames or was it because she wasn't wearing a coat and they wanted to provide warmth? Didn't she have a jacket on in the security video? (Snip)

(1) She was probably nude by the time they arrived. Remember the famous photo of the little girl running away from a Napalm attack on her village in Vietnam?

(2) She may have been still on fire, so a large fireman's jacket was used to smother the flames.

(3) She probably went into shock, so important to keep her warm.

 

[rbarber17]

The fire chief didn't offer to name a name .... he stated that he was advised by LE to not state the name she gave.

Makes no sense. Why would LE tell the chief not state the name, then LE turn around and state the name to MSM? Unless of course the name he would have stated was not the one LE made public...

 

[MyBelle]

(1) She was probably nude by the time they arrived. Remember the famous photo of the little girl running away from a Napalm attack on her village in Vietnam?

(2) She may have been still on fire, so a large fireman's jacket was used to smother the flames.

(3) She probably went into shock, so important to keep her warm.

I would think she would have removed her clothes immediately if they were on fire. She was burned to such an extent, that might be an indication she wasn't wearing clothes when she was doused on fire and the fire was to hide a sexual assault. This is a detail we haven't been told.

JMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

My guess is some of the clothing melted onto the skin if it was saturated with a flammable liquid.

I would think the fireman's jacket would be placed on her due to shock more than anything, but could have been to douse the flames since we don't really know how they put out the fire.

Nothing I have seen reported has indicated sexual assault.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Did LE make a statement of the name Jessica said? I thought Champion said only that she did tell them something, but he wouldn't comment on it.