MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #10

[flatfootjoe]

I think the point is, back in 2011 there was a whole lot of body and house burning going on, for one reason and one reason only: to get rid of evidence. The coroner stated the victim died of gunshot wounds, so the fire was definitely not to kill him.

Likewise in Jessica's case, there was no reason to burn an entire car just to kill her. The arson was obviously to cover the murderer's tracks. The tiniest pieces of evidence federal LE could have used to pin the tail on the donkey -- fibers, hairs, DNA of any type -- would have been destroyed in the inferno. I am convinced burning Jessica alive was not the perpetrator(s) intention, burning her CORPSE and car were. JMO
:burn:

Yet once they knew she was alive, you have to assume and reasonably so that she screamed at some point, they chose to restrain her somehow and let the blaze finish the job? If so, if she were so close to death, apparently or otherwise, why weren't her previous injuries what she succumbed to? That's the sole point of contention that keeps me from agreeing with that theory. It only takes a coward and a gun to pop some lead in someones gourd, it takes a really special kind of monster to trap or restrain someone burning to death.

I don't think it was an ooops she's not quite dead yet, hold the door closed moment. I don't see how that would be possible as there is more than one door to control, and she'd have been kicking, fighting, doing whatever she could including kicking the windshield out (that by the way happens relatively easily). Being on fire would be more than adequate to introduce enough adrenaline to make you uncontrollable. Not to mention the fact that if the culprits weren't wearing asbestos flame suits, they would have been burned quite badly while attempting to keep her confined.

I see the value in the point you're making, it just doesn't cover all the bases enough IMO.

 

[flatfootjoe]

As someone else alluded to, it's very possible that it was clumped into a much longer post that contained info from those "other" sites, and it may have gotten deleted before you could read it. In some of the earlier threads, you had to read quickly, because posts often disappeared. LOL.

Now that makes perfect sense. Yeah, I've been reading since #2 or #3, and IIRC around 5-7 stuff disappeared here and there. Now I'm wondering how much else I may have missed.

 

[MyBelle]

I respectfully disagree in part. I believe Jessica was intentionally burned alive out of jealousy and revenge and it had been planned to happen on that night at that place and time. JMO, of course. I do believe the car was burned to cover up any evidence such as DNA or fingerprints, though.

I totally agree with you. The fire was an act of vengeance and to hide evidence. There was no 'either or' in this case.

 

[swedie]

Sadly it's gotten very quiet on Jessica's thread. But you are not forgotten Jessica.

It's been three months since Jessica's murder and I hold out hope that whoever murdered her in such a vicious and cruel way will be brought to justice. Sometimes some cases just take a little longer to solve, but I believe one day it will be solved and there will be justice. MOO.

RIP Sweet Jessica.

 

[rbarber17]

I respectfully disagree in part. I believe Jessica was intentionally burned alive out of jealousy and revenge and it had been planned to happen on that night at that place and time. JMO, of course. I do believe the car was burned to cover up any evidence such as DNA or fingerprints, though.

If the part about the perpetrator(s) pouring lighter fluid down her nose and throat is true, I would have to agree with you. Is it true?

 

[rbarber17]

Yet once they knew she was alive, you have to assume and reasonably so that she screamed at some point, they chose to restrain her somehow and let the blaze finish the job? If so, if she were so close to death, apparently or otherwise, why weren't her previous injuries what she succumbed to? That's the sole point of contention that keeps me from agreeing with that theory. It only takes a coward and a gun to pop some lead in someones gourd, it takes a really special kind of monster to trap or restrain someone burning to death.

I don't think it was an ooops she's not quite dead yet, hold the door closed moment. I don't see how that would be possible as there is more than one door to control, and she'd have been kicking, fighting, doing whatever she could including kicking the windshield out (that by the way happens relatively easily). Being on fire would be more than adequate to introduce enough adrenaline to make you uncontrollable. Not to mention the fact that if the culprits weren't wearing asbestos flame suits, they would have been burned quite badly while attempting to keep her confined.

I see the value in the point you're making, it just doesn't cover all the bases enough IMO.

Joe (or would you prefer Flat, or Foot? And "what's up with dat" disgusting looking creature?) -- See my other post to New1 a few minutes ago where I am reconsidering my position. I do know from experience with burning brush piles that once your pour gasoline on something, you better be ready to light it almost immediately or you are going to have flames in your face. The volitle components form an almost explosive vapor and there is a loud "WHOOF" when it ignites from all the surrounding air being sucked into the area. My feeling is, once the perpetrator(s) lit that vehicle, whether or not Jessica was dead or just unconscious, they got the Hell out of Dodge. Think of it, a burning vehicle on a dark roadside with only one road to get away (if you are driving). Waste no time getting away from a crime scene where the "alarm" is being broadcast for miles.
:whoosh:

 

[rbarber17]

I guess anything is possible.

Your curt response cracked me up. Reminded me of an old lawyer joke.

An attorney, cross-examining the local coroner, queried, "Before you signed the death certificate had you taken the man's pulse?"
"No," the coroner replied.
"Well, then, did you listen for a heart beat?"
The coroner answered, "No."
"Did you check for respiration? Breathing?", asked the attorney.
Again the coroner replied, "No."
"Ah," the attorney said, "So when you signed the death certificate you had not taken any steps to make sure the man was dead, had you?"
The coroner rolled his eyes, and shot back "Counselor, at the time I signed the death certificate the man's brain was sitting in a jar on my desk. But I can see your point. For all I know he could be out there practicing law somewhere."

 

[debirlfan]

Yet once they knew she was alive, you have to assume and reasonably so that she screamed at some point, they chose to restrain her somehow and let the blaze finish the job? If so, if she were so close to death, apparently or otherwise, why weren't her previous injuries what she succumbed to? That's the sole point of contention that keeps me from agreeing with that theory. It only takes a coward and a gun to pop some lead in someones gourd, it takes a really special kind of monster to trap or restrain someone burning to death.

I don't think it was an ooops she's not quite dead yet, hold the door closed moment. I don't see how that would be possible as there is more than one door to control, and she'd have been kicking, fighting, doing whatever she could including kicking the windshield out (that by the way happens relatively easily). Being on fire would be more than adequate to introduce enough adrenaline to make you uncontrollable. Not to mention the fact that if the culprits weren't wearing asbestos flame suits, they would have been burned quite badly while attempting to keep her confined.

If she'd been knocked unconscious - or even if she'd passed out from drug use - perp might have panicked, ran back to their vehicle, grabbed something flammable and poured it on her/in the car. Then they flicked their Bic/a match, tossed it through the car window, jumped in their car and fled. Even if she'd come to immediately, perp might not have realized it - and if they did, then "Oh crud, she's alive and on fire!" would have only increased their panic.

I hope that they did think she was dead - because if so, they may feel guilty knowing how she died and may eventually confess to someone, especially if the initial situation was something that had escalated and it wasn't a planned murder.

Hmm, another thought. If there really was gasoline/whatever poured into her mouth, then it might have been done to eliminate DNA, if she'd been performing certain acts in the car.

 

[Classito]

"the toned dropped and it was a vehicle fire and we expected it to be any normal vehicle fire we'd extenquish and be back home you know and we made scene and we saw a vehicle fully involved and we noticed a young female and we knew we had something bigger on our hands

...my guys they started extinquishing the fire trying to preserve any evidence that might of been left behind and I started attending to the victim and she did speak with me which I can't dsiclose any of that information at this time but yea she, she did talk with me...

It's a small town, everybody knows everybody in a small town but I know the family real well and I just I hate it happened you know feel sorry for em the family and our condolences go out"

0.55 into the video..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrr1mKLxno

<modsnip> Interesting that they could tell upon arriving at scene that a burned beyond recognition victim was a young female..

Classito

 

[flatfootjoe]

Joe (or would you prefer Flat, or Foot? And "what's up with dat" disgusting looking creature?) -- See my other post to New1 a few minutes ago where I am reconsidering my position. I do know from experience with burning brush piles that once your pour gasoline on something, you better be ready to light it almost immediately or you are going to have flames in your face. The volitle components form an almost explosive vapor and there is a loud "WHOOF" when it ignites from all the surrounding air being sucked into the area. My feeling is, once the perpetrator(s) lit that vehicle, whether or not Jessica was dead or just unconscious, they got the Hell out of Dodge. Think of it, a burning vehicle on a dark roadside with only one road to get away (if you are driving). Waste no time getting away from a crime scene where the "alarm" is being broadcast for miles.
:whoosh:

Oh I know all about the whoosh. I can look on the experience almost laughingly as I remember the one time my brother tried to start a fire with gasoline. That didn't end well and thankfully he wasn't seriously hurt. That whoosh factor is almost exclusively tied to volatile accelerants, not combustibles like kerosene, turpentine, lighter fluid or even diesel.

OT

Joe, FFJ, whatever you like really, whatever is most convenient. The avatar is Cthulhu, it's from Lovecraft.

I can further understand your position now, you think they lit the blaze and departed before she regained consciousness. That's a little more plausible.

If you check the statements from people who have visited the area, it's location did a lot to help hide the fire itself, on a curve, in fairly dense wood, with a good canopy to prevent a fire's sky signature. That's one of the first things I noted when I saw the scene. It was chosen to help hide the fire, one of the main reasons I believe that the crime was planned well in advance and the fact that fire was the murder weapon.

 

[flatfootjoe]

"the toned dropped and it was a vehicle fire and we expected it to be any normal vehicle fire we'd extenquish and be back home you know and we made scene and we saw a vehicle fully involved and we noticed a young female and we knew we had something bigger on our hands

...my guys they started extinquishing the fire trying to preserve any evidence that might of been left behind and I started attending to the victim and she did speak with me which I can't dsiclose any of that information at this time but yea she, she did talk with me...

It's a small town, everybody knows everybody in a small town but I know the family real well and I just I hate it happened you know feel sorry for em the family and our condolences go out"

0.55 into the video..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrr1mKLxno

<modsnip>....Interesting that they could tell upon arriving at scene that a burned beyond recognition victim was a young female..

Classito

Forgive me for the following but it's not suspicious or unusual. Her clothes if any remained were likely tatters, and burned breasts are still breasts.

 

[bessie]

As someone else alluded to, it's very possible that it was clumped into a much longer post that contained info from those "other" sites, and it may have gotten deleted before you could read it. In some of the earlier threads, you had to read quickly, because posts often disappeared. LOL.

Just another good reason not to post garbage. Mods aren't editors. When a thread is moving swiftly with a high volume of toxic posts -- as was the case here in the beginning -- it's nearly impossible to edit out the trash and retain the valid info in each errant post and all the others in which it is quoted.

 

[MotherOcean]

This story is OFF TOPIC In regards to Jessica, but thought I'd share it as it involves a burning car found with a body inside. This occurred in Escambia County, Florida (north-west Florida).

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/2015/03/06/body-found-burning-vehicle/24492209/

 

[rbarber17]

Dear Fellow WebSleuth-ers:

Today is March 6th, which marks the 3-month anniversary of this horrible crime. To date, no arrests have been made. At this point, I think the LE Team has hunkered down for the long haul, and I am not expecting any new developments anytime soon. So I’m putting an item in my Outlook calendar, a reminder for Dec. 6th, the one year anniversary, to check back again and see what has happened. It has been an honor discussing this case with you folks over the past several weeks, trying to get to the bottom of such a terrible crime. But without anything further to go on from LE, these efforts are pretty much just “spinning our wheels”. I really think they are missing out on some very sharp minds here, if they’d just provide a little grist for the mill.



A Special Note to Jessica’s Parents, Family, and Friends:

I sincerely hope you do not frequent these threads, since sometimes the details we discuss here could do nothing but add to what must already be an unbearable burden for you. The loss of any loved one is difficult, but for someone as young and full of life as Jessica, it must be especially cruel and unjust. I believe almost everyone posting or lurking on this WebSleuths website shares a common interest in your daughter’s murder: that whoever committed such a horrible crime will be brought to justice. I know considerable resources from Panola County, the state of Mississippi, and our federal government are being expended to achieve that goal. There is no statute of limitations for murder, and I know that agencies like the FBI will never give up – just ask Whitey Bulger. I think some very important and serious work is going on here at WS, and I’m amazed at all the bright lights shining into this Mississippi foggy bottom. Hopefully some of the discussions are proving helpful to law enforcement. At the very least, I hope they are not being considered a hindrance or nuisance. Greater is the light within these here, than the darkness within those whom they seek. Please accept my deepest condolences for your loss. Finally, here is a link to an old hymn , one sung at my own mother’s funeral many years ago, which I hope is a comfort to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSwQ4vkB5tI

PRECIOUS MEMORIES
Written by J.B.F. Wright in 1925

Precious memories, unseen angels
Sent from somewhere to my soul
How they linger, ever near me
And the sacred scenes unfold.

Precious memories, how they linger
How they ever flood my soul
In the stillness of the midnight
Precious, sacred scenes unfold.

Precious father, loving mother
Fly across the lonely years
And old home scenes of my childhood
In fond memory appear.

In the stillness of the midnight
Echoes from the past I hear
Old-time singing, gladness bringing
From that lovely land somewhere.

I remember mother praying
Father, too, on bended knee
Sun is sinking, shadows falling
But their prayers still follow me.

As I travel on life's pathway
Know not what the years may hold
As I ponder, hope grows fonder
Precious memories flood my soul.

:seeya:

 

[FindHG]

Just another good reason not to post garbage. Mods aren't editors. When a thread is moving swiftly with a high volume of toxic posts -- as was the case here in the beginning -- it's nearly impossible to edit out the trash and retain the valid info in each errant post and all the others in which it is quoted.

Thank you, bessie. Those names had come up before from arrest records in the Panolian, never presented as such though or with as much background information included, that IIRC. You manage a Herculean task against SM's Sisyphian fails.

 

[S2000CR]

Reply to #412:
Just because someone has the same surname and is from the same state does not automatically mean they are related.

 

[Classito]

Forgive me for the following but it's not suspicious or unusual. Her clothes if any remained were likely tatters, and burned breasts are still breasts.

All of which depends on how badly she was burned and what remained visible....It also depends on the distance of the observer from the body...etc...None of this information has been shared with us (other than burned beyond recognition and 98% burned)...Therefore everything is suspicious..and no one is cleared (except Ali of course)...

Classito

 

[samantha17]

I respectfully disagree in part. I believe Jessica was intentionally burned alive out of jealousy and revenge and it had been planned to happen on that night at that place and time. JMO, of course. I do believe the car was burned to cover up any evidence such as DNA or fingerprints, though.

I would give anything to know who called her on the phone right before she left the house ..... I believe this could probably solve (or help solve) her murder but this should be known by LE by now. I guess they need solid evidence that this was a set-up possibly by the caller and many others .... the many others is probably why this case hasn't been solved.

 

[nanadee]

Interesting that they could tell upon arriving at scene that a burned beyond recognition victim was a young female..

Classito

I agree with flatfootjoe, I assume her clothing was burnt off and breasts would have been visible and I also would imagine that her small size made them assume she was young. IIRC Jessica's aunt shared on twitter that Jessica was barely 5 feet tall and only weighed around 95 pounds.

 

[SteveP]

Her mother said Jessica's hair was all burned...so long blond hair etc would not have been a clue to identification


Classito

Courtland has a population of about 512. I had more kids than that in my high school graduating class, and knew, or at least knew by sight, almost every one of them. Given the fact that, even badly burned, her car wasn't instantly transformed into an unrecognizable hunk of metal, and given the fact that Jessica had a very petite frame and weight, and given the fact that, as FFJ said, she was surely still recognizable as female, and given the fact that the fire chief knew her family to some extent, along with the report that she allegedly spoke to the chief, it probably wasn't too much of a leap to quickly deduce that the woman on fire was most likely Jessica Chambers. And FWIW, even though no one but Ali has been cleared, to our knowledge, that doesn't mean others are open to sleuthing. WS TOS forbids sleuthing people who have not been named as suspects or persons of interest. If you have info, other than a gut feeling, about the fire chief, or anyone else, that you feel you should share, perhaps you should contact LE. JMO