MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #10

[Happyshoes]

You guys and girls are all over everything - Hey Foxfire! I said earlier I wish the Dermond case had as many agencies on it as this case does. This case is complicated! I should have known you'd be here. What are your thoughts? Is it unusual for there to be 2 fire related cases in a city this size? Was this poor child burned inside or outside of the car? I'm still catching up.

 

[debirlfan]

Thank you...I kind of figured the defense was due to occupation or spouse of..The list was only a thin slice of the many known and reported in the last year...Of course those not discovered/convicted are not reported and is an unknown...

Although there are no statistics to give a percentage..We do know that 51% is called majority...And we do know it is a big enough problem that Homeland Security issued a report regarding firefighter arson and at least two states have taken steps to try and prevent it...

Classito

It's not that most firefighters are bad or are anything but heroes - it's that a fair number of the pyromaniacs who are fascinated by fires become firefighters to make it easier to get their "fix" - and sometimes that includes lighting fires as well as setting them.

 

[wfgodot]

Those clumsy rubes sure have the Feds stumped.

Not to mention the unspeakably ill-nuanced local LE -- the 'e' evidently for 'embarrassment.'

 

[samantha17]

Could you link us to proof that it was unrelated or to the 'considered normal' fire rates for the month of Dec in the Courtland area....?

IMO...There is nothing yet that has proved Jessica was even burned at the same time or place the car was...She was found laying by the road...not in the car...

Classito

No, I don't have a link stating the fires weren't related .... do you have a link stating they were?????? What do the normal amount of fires in Courtland in Dec. have to do with anything? There could be no fires or any number of fires in any given month in any given county.

 

[Foxfire]

Probably totally unrelated to this case, but... I've read that a fair number of arson fires are set by firemen.

...or is it really the other way round - some sort of pyromania that leads some to become firemen?

"...described reasons for fire setting events as anger, revenge, monetary gain, poor judgment while under the influence of alcohol, and for attention (to be a hero)."
http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/2010/07/murphy-firefighter-arsonists.html



Good thing it is rare and the overwhelming majority do not commit arson...This is just some of the headlines on firefighter arsonist in the last year

http://www.delcotimes.com/general-news/20150123/former-darby-township-firefighter-accused-of-arson-now-charged-with-raping-children

http://www.firerescue1.com/Arson-Investigation/articles/2110326-Minn-volunteer-firefighter-accused-of-arson/

http://www.wmur.com/news/trial-begins-for-former-firefighter-accused-of-arson/30561262

http://www.kcrg.com/subject/news/public-safety/crime/strawberry-point-firefighter-accused-of-arson-insurance-fraud-20140922

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/26399037/riverside-firefighter-accused-of-arson

http://www.kfvs12.com/story/15006686/two-cairo-firefighters-accused-of-arson

http://www.wisn.com/news/volunteer-fireman-arrested-accused-of-setting-fires-in-sheboygan-co/27681504

http://fox2now.com/2014/05/09/butler-county-firefighter-accused-of-arson/

http://itawambatimes.com/2015/02/25/three-dorsey-volunteer-firefighters-charged-arson/

http://www.timesleader.com/news/local-news/1280517/Volunteer-firefighter-is-charged-with-arson

http://www.islandpacket.com/2014/11/21/3445135/former-yemassee-fire-department.html


Classito

Classito, as a retired Captain with Atlanta Fire Department with 25 years service, I can only remember one case of arson by an Atlanta firefighter. He torched a vacant house enroute to work. Having prior knowledge of the origin of the fire/seat, he knew he could rapidly extinguish it. His motive was to impress the Fire Chief, with his firefighting abilities.. So, yes it does happen, but considering the number of arson or suspicious fires in the USA annually, it is rare..

http://www.nfpa.org/research/report...on-and-juvenile-firesetting/intentional-fires

According to the FBI’s Crime in the United States, one in five (19%) of arson cases were cleared by arrest or exceptional means, and two out of five of the individuals arrested for arson were under 18 years of age.

In intentionally set vehicle fires, the most common items first ignited were flammable or combustible liquids or gases, piping or filter (29%) and vehicle seats (28%). The most common heat sources were matches (24% of fires), lighters (16%) and incendiary devices (13%)

Additional resources can be found at www.nfpa.org/arson.

 

[OneLove]

Assuming that there actually was another fire and not some other call that the FD responded to (possibly medical), as I see it, there are several possibilities:

The two fires are totally unrelated - pure coincidence.
The house? fire was intentionally set to distract attention from Jessica's murder.
House fire was accidental, but perp used it as convenient distraction.
Jessica was somehow involved (accomplice?) of whoever set the initial fire, who then also killed her.
Jessica was somehow involved in the initial fire, and she was killed in retribution.
(The above are listed in what I'd consider their likelihood, from most probable to least. Does anyone have any other possibilities?)

Well, this is pretty far out there, but since you asked for other possible scenarios: maybe the first fire was started as a result of a drug incident. It could have been 'use' of a drug OR manufacture of a drug. Maybe Jessica was at the first fire location and was seriously injured/burned in this incident. Maybe the burns to her face and interior of her facial and esophageal cavities happened at this first incident. Maybe she was screaming bloody murder out of her mind in agonizing pain. Maybe someone took a blunt object and knocked her out with it to stop her screaming and pain. Maybe panic among possible parole and/or probation violators ensued and they took an unconscious JC, in her car, to the 2nd location where they "eliminated" their problem (their flawed and drugged thinking, not mine).

This is just a possible scenario. But I don't know a thing about the first fire, so there might be factors that shoot all kinds of holes in this.

 

[Classito]

No, I don't have a link stating the fires weren't related .... do you have a link stating they were?????? What do the normal amount of fires fires in Courtland in Dec. have to do with anything?

No link saying yes or no to the relation...Which leaves it questionable (or a mystery if you will). I believe every questionable event should be considered and investigated.

I don't know why some people think the two fires are somehow related ..... it's rural MS, it's Dec, people are using fireplaces and other forms of heat that CAN CAUSE fires ..... sheesh = no mystery.

This suggested that it was the norm for fires in Dec in rural MS and should therefore not be a mystery...Just wondering where the information came from so I asked..

Classito

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Considering the number of firefighters working every day in America, even your post shows how very rare it is for a firefighter to commit arson. Does it ever happen? Sure it does. There are always a few bad apples in any big enough bunch. You can probably google any occupation and get a few hits for arson. Foxfire would never toot his/her own horn, but is a retired firefighter of substantial rank in a major metropolitan department. My niece and nephew are both firefighters in relatively large cities as well. The very vast majority of firefighters are honorable men and women who would think nothing of risking their lives to save yours or mine, and they are heroes in my book. JMO

Coming from a familial background of my grandfather being a Battalion Chief fireman (paid) for a large Northeast City......I wonder what the stats show for arson in a behavioral sense for small town **volunteer** firefighters?
I bet it makes a difference statistically when it comes to arson. And I'm not saying one is better than the other or anything else like that......just wishing we had an empirical study showing if there's a higher percentage of arson connected with volunteers vs paid professional firefighters.
It surely would be interesting to find out, wouldn't it?

Anyone?????

 

[samantha17]

No link saying yes or no to the relation...Which leaves it questionable (or a mystery if you will). I believe every questionable event should be considered and investigated.



This suggested that it was the norm for fires in Dec in rural MS and should therefore not be a mystery...Just wondering where the information came from so I asked..

Classito

I think my problem is that we have beat these two seemingly unrelated fires to a pulp .... I have seen zero connection, merely coincidence .... I'd like to see other possible scenarios.

 

[southernyankee]

I think my problem is that we have beat these two seemingly unrelated fires to a pulp .... I have seen zero connection, merely coincidence .... I'd like to see other possible scenarios.

Agreed. As said before: there are plenty of potentially what's-up-with-that situations as reported by various sources in this case, but the instance of these two fires feels like a red herring... and I believe FlatFootJoe nailed the gist of it here:

The mildly suspicious [dual fire situation] becomes even more mild when you consider we aren't talking about spontaneously occurring fires. At least one of them was set intentionally. In which case we're talking about one fire, [and[ one case of arson.

(bracketed text added by me for clarification in understanding - FFJ, please correct me if I misunderstood what you meant, though)

Bottom line: I think we could probably end up unearthing a more sound answer as to the details of this first fire of the evening than we would about the 911 call that alerted the Volunteer Fire Dept to the car fire at Herron Road.

 

[OneLove]

I think my problem is that we have beat these two seemingly unrelated fires to a pulp .... I have seen zero connection, merely coincidence .... I'd like to see other possible scenarios.

Well, that's what we do here at Websleuths; we go over and over every detail, leaving no stone unturned, until cases are solved.

In the end, it is often the "seemingly unrelated" and what appears on the surface as "zero connection" that finally brings closure to a case.

None among us know what will end up being VERY related and having ABSOLUTE connection. Unless you are privy to information the rest of us don't have, you don't know either.

In this particular case, just about everything and everyone so far seems to be "merely coincidence". I can understand your boredom; this case seems to be at a standstill (although I personally doubt that it really is).

If we toss any conversation based on "seemingly unrelated", "zero apparent connection", and "probable coincidence", there's really nothing left to discuss here, lol. Hopefully, the multiple LE agencies arent taking that route. [emoji32] WSers are die-hards, dedicated to looking deeper and discovering what has yet to be discovered. Sleuth on!!!! [emoji41]

 

[OneLove]

My previous post should have pointed out some previously discussed factors and the wide range of reactions to them:

JC's final car location-----mere coincidence to deeply significant

JC's leaving the house after receiving a call---mere coincidence/unrelated or primary motivating factor

Trip to Batesville----zero connection or absolute connection

I could go through everything we do know so far......no factor has been proven related or completely unrelated. I don't think ANY of those factors are dead horses, just for the record AND so that we don't toss out ANY possible factors until there is substantiation for doing so. IMO

 

[flatfootjoe]

Agreed. As said before: there are plenty of potentially what's-up-with-that situations as reported by various sources in this case, but the instance of these two fires feels like a red herring... and I believe FlatFootJoe nailed the gist of it here:



(bracketed text added by me for clarification in understanding - FFJ, please correct me if I misunderstood what you meant, though)

Bottom line: I think we could probably end up unearthing a more sound answer as to the details of this first fire of the evening than we would about the 911 call that alerted the Volunteer Fire Dept to the car fire at Herron Road.

You understood me perfectly. Thank you for clarifying it further.

Now I'll elaborate on the cause of the second fire in the fashion most common in this case. It was arson, it was spontaneous, it was the result of an unrelated or related accident. There are no suspects or persons of interest and no arrests are expected in the next hundred or so years. However every law enforcement agency in the USA has boots on the ground working round the clock to bring justice to that lawn. (IIRC it was a brush fire near a residence)

Sorry for the seething sarcasm WSers, I'm nearing my tolerance for ineptitude in this investigation again. I've had a fair amount of interaction with the NSA and the CIA before but none with the FBI. Doesn't a federal agency like that normally take the reigns in a case, I know for a fact the DoT, NSA and CIA do.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If she gave the person's name; Then i dont see what the hold up is. Was the name an aquantance of the fire fighter she told so he just switched names on us or what. If not; Then was is taking so long. She told you who did it. So eliminate people with the same name and go after the one with the most circumstantial connections. Jmo

 

[flatfootjoe]

If she gave the person's name; Then i dont see what the hold up is. Was the name an aquantance of the fire fighter she told so he just switched names on us or what. If not; Then was is taking so long. She told you who did it. So eliminate people with the same name and go after the one with the most circumstantial connections. Jmo

A dying declaration is great evidence, but nowhere near enough for a conviction. Considering Jessica's condition her voice was probably weak, she was in shock certainly. Without corroborating evidence the crim would walk free. They're only going to get one shot for a conviction. Without some hard physical evidence they won't get one. They're going to go for the death penalty on this, it's almost guaranteed.

 

[SteveP]

If she gave the person's name; Then i dont see what the hold up is. Was the name an aquantance of the fire fighter she told so he just switched names on us or what. If not; Then was is taking so long. She told you who did it. So eliminate people with the same name and go after the one with the most circumstantial connections. Jmo

I am guessing even the most inept law enforcement agency would have thought to check out people with names that sound like what she allegedly uttered right away, and we know from the first couple of people interviewed in this case, who were interviewed because of their names, that LE was in fact chasing that lead, but there are a s**tload of people in that town that have names that sound similar to what she supposedly uttered, although it may not have been completely understandable, and probably most if not all of them are very familiar with the legal system. I am sure the various agencies involved have been doing everything they can to whittle down a list of possible suspects, and gather evidence needed to make arrests, but I hardly believe any jury is going to convict someone when the only evidence presented is "well, his name sounded like what she said". JMO

 

[OneLove]

.......... I hardly believe any jury is going to convict someone when the only evidence presented is "well, his name sounded like what she said". JMO

Respectfully snipped

True dat, SteveP. In addition, we do not know if she even uttered any words other than a single "name", or even how that one word/name was used.

If she could not get an entire cohesive, well-understood, enunciated sentence spoken, then that one "alleged" name could mean any number of things besides "HE DID THIS TO ME".

It could be a name called out in affection,
it could be the name of someone who tried to help her but ran right before FFs arrived,
it could have been a name called out during a hallucination,
it could have been "air, air" (as in "I can't get enough air") followed by gurgling or a stuck dry throat that sounded a lot like "ick",
it could be a name she was screaming out to for help before firefighters even arrived, maybe because she knew that was the only person living near the scene.

The possibilities go on and on and on.

Only the first responders who heard her really know how well enunciated the "name"was, if it was even a name at all, and how much more she added to substantiate any claims.

Everything is still on the table........ until it's not.

 

[New1]

If she gave the person's name; Then i dont see what the hold up is. Was the name an aquantance of the fire fighter she told so he just switched names on us or what. If not; Then was is taking so long. She told you who did it. So eliminate people with the same name and go after the one with the most circumstantial connections. Jmo

This is just my own personal opinion, but I don't think Jessica told them any names, and if she did speak a name, it was not Eric or Derrick. I think those names were put out there by LE to make the killer(s) think they didn't suspect them.

 

[Cherry]

I would still like to know if she was possibly lighting up or cooking meth via,shake n bake n car and it blew up literally in her face. I'd like to know if this is one option on the table for what happened.

 

[flatfootjoe]

I would still like to know if she was possibly lighting up or cooking meth via,shake n bake n car and it blew up literally in her face. I'd like to know if this is one option on the table for what happened.

Law enforcement has made it very very clear that they believe this is a homicide. Not accidental or suicide. Some WSers believe that is a possibility however law enforcement has ruled out an accident. That is the one fact that hasn't been challenged or recanted from the very beginning.