MSM coverage of Baby Lisa, 11/11/11

[Karmaa]

We had a case up here in Canada where the mother of a missing child was set up by our equivilent of the FBI in a sting. She was contacted by a bogus "benefactor" that was going to give a sustantial donation to her daughter's reward fund. She went first class in a limo to meet with this person in a hotel all the while being bugged in the car, in the hotel etc. Might seem like a pretty cruel thing to do to a distraught mother but sometimes it just has to be done. She also had timeline issues and failed a lie detector. To just leave her alone after she said she was innocent would have been pretty remiss of LE.

Turned out she was innocent but she continued to speak with LE every day, even after finding out about the sting, in the quest to find out what happened to her child. LE don't always play nice. But if you're innocent and keep maintaining it throughout the investigation, they will not have anything to charge you with IMO. And they can clear you and move on.

Sadly, sometimes overaggressive investigators use the psychological methods of interrogation to extract false confessions. That is a very real danger, and it happens to a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. But no matter what, in the US people have the constitutional right to not agree to an interview, and that should not be used against them. If they are guilty then it is LE's RESPONSIBILITY to figure it out, without forcing a confession.

If LE can't find the evidence, then, to quote one of our founding fathers "it is better that 100 guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer" (Benjamin Franklin).

 

[Sparklin]

Hey Sparklin, I was gonna log off for the night and you realed me back in again! I'm taking the bait...illowfight2:

It was good that Graves clarified last week that LE is not publicly clearing anyone and "moving on" doesn't mean cleared or never to be looked at again. At least now we have a standard definition to go by no matter which LE representative is making a statement.

But, there are still no publicly named suspects either. So, just because someone who has been questioned is not publicly cleared, doesn't mean that they are still, or ever were, viable suspects. This is true for Jersey, Megan, Shane, Dane, Mr. Brando, Debbi and Jeremy...

Now, I'm really calling it a night (before I get in trouble for going off topic in the MSM thread).

One more thing before you go to bed...: J/K I knew the above, I was being facetious

 

[Karmaa]

The only people talking is the Defense Team for DB & JI and witnesses/people who have endured multiple sit downs with LE (MT, MW, SB #2, JB.) LE has made all of about a half dozen repetitious statements that for weeks have included the caveat, "yes, they are answering questions about tips..." but LE has reiterated, in more ways than one could state, that they have more questions LE needs answered.

(If you exclude all the other people who have been interrogated) We have only really heard one side: THE B/I side.

And, sadly, may people automatically think that every statement that comes from that side is a lie. Period. (Unless it happens to be detrimental to the family, in which case it is believed 100%, while every OTHER word said is a lie.) I don't think that every word from the family is a lie, or that it is the truth. But until I have something to counter it, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

And, any questions that are intended to help find out what happened to Baby Lisa can be asked over the phone, in the family's living room, or anywhere else. There is no need to bring them into the station, unless the purpose of the interview is to try to extract a confession.

 

[tehcloser]

I have yet to hear anyone say that LE is the bad guy. But LE has a job to do, and that is to find who has committed a crime. One of the techniques that they use is to interrogate people that they are suspicious of, and those interrogations are not pleasant.

This family sat through long sessions of interrogation and did not "crack" and then said "no more". Why didn't they crack? Either because they are darned good liars (which, if you understand the Reid Technique of interrogation, is rather unlikely), or they are innocent. In either case, they have a valid reason to not want to go sit in the interrogation room again.

In the meantime they have been answering questions - but LE has not only allowed the public to believe otherwise, but they have actually encouraged it - until they are asked point blank, and they have no choice but to admit that the parents are, in fact, cooperating.

That doesn't make LE bad, it just is two different sides of the same situation. Some people can see and understand both sides without saying one is right and the other is wrong, and some people can't. I am one of the ones who can see both sides.

Oh, well...that's why I don't get it...........I'm just stoopid and don't understand. :floorlaugh: Ok All kidding aside, most of us have been around long enough to know how LE works. We've also been around long enough to know who the usual suspects are and what it takes for LE to be able to move on. DB and JI need ot get over their self, and help LE find their daughter.

 

[katydid23]

After going back through the timeline notes today and reading some of the first articles up to where LE says they stopped cooperating, I found the majority of the time they spent being interviewed was separately. There is even an article where Deb goes to be interviewed alone. So JI wasn't even downtown at that time. I can't think why they would need to interview separately at this point as DB/JI have had plenty of time to get their story straight if they are lying. Unless LE wants to intimidate them some more it seems pointless.

When interrogating a potential suspect, it is always much better to have them 'alone.' Even if they have their attorney there, being separated from their partner is always better. LE is attempting to break them down. But they are always going to feel much stronger when they are sitting next to their partner. LE does not want that. They want their potential suspect to feel alone and vulnerable while they are being questioned. I cannot blame them.

I remember once when my son was about 11 and we had a birthday party at our house. And it was a Pokemon card type party. I gave each of the kids a few variety packs of cards. Anyway, halfway through the party I found my son very upset. And someone had stolen two of his most precious and expensive and rare cards. I was PISSED. We knew it was one of the 7 boys at the house. And then one of my neighbors told me that she saw two of the boys sneaking out from my son's room a bit earlier. So my husband took both the boys up to his office to talk to them. They were adamant that they were totally innocent. But I separated them, and questioned them one at a time, using that age old LE tactic. Sure enough, one of the kids pulled the cards out of his back pocket, once we said the other kid had confessed it wa them. SO IMO, YOU NEED TO SEPARATE THEM TO GET ANYWHERE WITH THEM.

 

[Karmaa]

Oh, well...that's why I don't get it...........I'm just stoopid and don't understand. :floorlaugh: Ok All kidding aside, most of us have been around long enough to know how LE works. We've also been around long enough to know who the usual suspects are and what it takes for LE to be able to move on. DB and JI need ot get over their self, and help LE find their daughter.

Kidding or not, I didn't say that, and I didn't suggest that. Being able to see multiple viewpoints is not about being intelligent, it's just a different way of looking at things. My point was that many people who question LE are not "against them" or think they are the bad guys, nor do they believe the parents are innocent.

And, the "usual suspects" are not always the right suspects.

 

[JeannaT]

I have yet to hear anyone say that LE is the bad guy. But LE has a job to do, and that is to find who has committed a crime. One of the techniques that they use is to interrogate people that they are suspicious of, and those interrogations are not pleasant.

This family sat through long sessions of interrogation and did not "crack" and then said "no more". Why didn't they crack? Either because they are darned good liars (which, if you understand the Reid Technique of interrogation, is rather unlikely), or they are innocent. In either case, they have a valid reason to not want to go sit in the interrogation room again.

In the meantime they have been answering questions - but LE has not only allowed the public to believe otherwise, but they have actually encouraged it - until they are asked point blank, and they have no choice but to admit that the parents are, in fact, cooperating.

That doesn't make LE bad, it just is two different sides of the same situation. Some people can see and understand both sides without saying one is right and the other is wrong, and some people can't. I am one of the ones who can see both sides.

Yep, me too. I'm a Libra, and am blessed/cursed (get the irony? both sides ;D ) with the ability to see both sides of a situation. I see both sides. I am a middle child, and have served many orgaizations as a parliamentarian. As time goes on, it appears that the ability to see both sides is a good thing. LE themselves can't press their charge, so it's not like it's obvious who's right here. Those who are blessed with the ability to be open, might be the ones at this point who should be listened to, over those who have made up their minds with no evidence. Ya think?

 

[tehcloser]

Well.............all the defense attorneys better come up with something better than they have, I don't think what they have so far is gonna work.........but they can keep spinning.

 

[MissJames]

I agree they aren't the bad guys and I'm willing to bet they want to find Baby Lisa a whole lot. But I also have to wonder if they are at such a standstill that they are stuck on the parents? Are they still insisting that the same officers that treated them like garbage originally do the interviews? Why do they want them separated? If they are willing to go in together, why not ask the tough questions in front of the other? That might yield even better results. I absolutely, 100% agree that D/J SHOULD be talking to LE, but I'm sure that after what they have already been put through, if LE is insisting they do it apart, that it will just be more of the same. Steve Young himself has said that they are cooperating, they get calls with questions and answer them, so why not ask THOSE questions any way they can get an answer?

The parents were not together when this happened so why would they have a problem with more separate interviews? They had separate experiences.

People will often with hold information if they are in the presence of someone else.
Just a hypothetical,but suppose JI has suspicions about DB,but doesn't want say so in front of DB in case he's wrong. Or maybe DB is afraid of JI and can't tell LE that in front of him .
There are lots of reasons to separate a couple for an interview.It would be irresponsible NOT to separate a couple,IMO and not just because LE wants to get them to confess. If one is intimidating the other or holding something over their head,they may need help . In this day and age LE has to consider there may be domestic violence. With a child missing they can't assume all is bliss.

 

[JeannaT]

Well.............all the defense attorneys better come up with something better than they have, I don't think what they have so far is gonna work.........but they can keep spinning.

Considering the defense doesn't have to prove their case, LE has to prove THEIRS, I think they're standing in good stead.

But maybe we could get back to finding that darling baby, and not forcing the family to solve this criminal case on their own, in their defense. It's up to LE to solve it, not the family.

 

[tehcloser]

It's their BABY, I would think they would try to HELP solve it.

 

[JeannaT]

It's their BABY, I would think they would try to HELP solve it.

Yes, certainly. And they sure have. Although those who dislike them don't see it.

 

[katydid23]

Considering the defense doesn't have to prove their case, LE has to prove THEIRS, I think they're standing in good stead.

But maybe we could get back to finding that darling baby, and not forcing the family to solve this criminal case on their own, in their defense. It's up to LE to solve it, not the family.

Sorry, but I totally disagree with that sentiment. The baby is their child, their responsibility, and it is their burden to solve it just as much as it is LE's. And as LE has said, they have the answers and hold the key. Maybe they are not guilty but they still have much more information than LE has about what happened leading up to the crime.

 

[tehcloser]

I don't know them........I can't like or dislike them. I only know what I see with my own eyes, and I do not think they have helped.

 

[1tasha]

I think it's interesting that 100% faith in the innocence of the parents somehow translates into objectivity in the eyes of some people...

 

[katydid23]

Yes, certainly. And they sure have. Although those who dislike them don't see it.

DB began by making up a false timeline and a false set of 'facts.' How was that helping LE to find her baby?

 

[Jaxson]

When interrogating a potential suspect, it is always much better to have them 'alone.' Even if they have their attorney there, being separated from their partner is always better. LE is attempting to break them down. But they are always going to feel much stronger when they are sitting next to their partner. LE does not want that. They want their potential suspect to feel alone and vulnerable while they are being questioned. I cannot blame them.

I remember once when my son was about 11 and we had a birthday party at our house. And it was a Pokemon card type party. I gave each of the kids a few variety packs of cards. Anyway, halfway through the party I found my son very upset. And someone had stolen two of his most precious and expensive and rare cards. I was PISSED. We knew it was one of the 7 boys at the house. And then one of my neighbors told me that she saw two of the boys sneaking out from my son's room a bit earlier. So my husband took both the boys up to his office to talk to them. They were adamant that they were totally innocent. But I separated them, and questioned them one at a time, using that age old LE tactic. Sure enough, one of the kids pulled the cards out of his back pocket, once we said the other kid had confessed it wa them. SO IMO, YOU NEED TO SEPARATE THEM TO GET ANYWHERE WITH THEM.

But the majority of the interviewing has been separate already. The attempt at making the parents alone and vulnerable has been made for many hours. Obviously it didn't work and the parents aren't wanting to let it happen again.

 

[Jaxson]

Well.............all the defense attorneys better come up with something better than they have, I don't think what they have so far is gonna work.........but they can keep spinning.

Actually LE needs to come up with something before defense attorneys are needed for a defense. Right now the attorneys are merely advising their clients.

 

[JeannaT]

Sorry, but I totally disagree with that sentiment. The baby is their child, their responsibility, and it is their burden to solve it just as much as it is LE's. And as LE has said, they have the answers and hold the key. Maybe they are not guilty but they still have much more information than LE has about what happened leading up to the crime.

I don't think they do. I think, as is often the case, LE is completely on the wrong track. This won't be the first, or the last case where LE is stringing up the wrong person, and blocking solving the case because they misunderstood who is guilty, and lead the public to the wrong conclusion.

 

[tehcloser]

Actually LE needs to come up with something before defense attorneys are needed for a defense. Right now the attorneys are merely advising their clients.

They can advise their clients off camera. When they make the rounds, I see that as spinning. They usually to that to get out ahead of bad news, I wonder what's coming? :waitasec: