My Experience With Borderline Disorder: By Aprilshowers

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Came in a bit late here but are we suggesting that just because she has BPD she could do this to her daughter???? I have BPD but all I know about it it's more from a childhood trauma - I mean I guess emotional incest could count as that and what WindChime describes is dead on behavior but none of that says anyone with BPD doesn't know right from wrong....maybe I'm just coming in too late to add anything here. But I get a little irritated when people start suggesting that mental illness is an excuse for these kinds of things. I live with this every day of my life and have 5 kids, a full time job and realize that I cannot use this as an excuse for my behavior. JMO.

Ezra,
No one is diagnosing Casey or saying that BPD has anything to do with anything. Initially Aprilshowers shared her story about BPD and I shared a little of mine and others pointed out that she could have this. Who knows? We were just trying to explain how in some ways we could identify with her. Now, I haven't done anything like this and I'm pretty sure April hasn't either. April was basically trying to help others understand how this diagnosis affects some people. Every one of us is different.

It does seem likely that there is some problem underlying her voracious lying, etc. Maybe not; maybe she's just one screwed up cookie. Who knows? It was in no way meant to be an excuse at all.
Tori
 
Came in a bit late here but are we suggesting that just because she has BPD she could do this to her daughter???? I have BPD but all I know about it it's more from a childhood trauma - I mean I guess emotional incest could count as that and what WindChime describes is dead on behavior but none of that says anyone with BPD doesn't know right from wrong....maybe I'm just coming in too late to add anything here. But I get a little irritated when people start suggesting that mental illness is an excuse for these kinds of things. I live with this every day of my life and have 5 kids, a full time job and realize that I cannot use this as an excuse for my behavior. JMO.

Hi Ezra,

I would say ... it certainly doesn't excuse murder! And I would also have to say, it all depends on the amount of abuse, emotional incest, the chemical make-up of that person .. etc. etc.

I could never harm a hair on my son's head ... but my niece tried to kill herself several times while pregnant. So every case is different.

I also have to say, some with BPD have been SO deeply affected, that it does affect every part of their life. Some can carry on a normal or close to normal life.

I'm certainly not saying that Casey HAS BPD or that excuses what she might have done at ALL! I was just pointing out some similar actions I've seen and heard about her, that seem so close to what I use to be like.

By the way, my sister was the scapegoat I believe. And you know, we use to get along well as children, but can NOT seem to get along now. She always held it against me for being the 'chosen child', and feeling my mom loved me more .. but I've sat down with her and explained many times, just how HARD it IS to be that chosen child .. that it has affected my life forever .. and I had to choose to work past it as best I could.

She still holds the grudge to this day ... and we don't speak to each other, because everything is about her, her drama, and her hurt ... and no matter how much I've tried to get past it with her, work it out, talk it out, it hasn't worked. Sad really ...
 
I don't think we have learned as parents just what impact we can have on a sensitive child. I have a family member who has BPD and I have studied it extensively, trying to understand how people with BPD must feel. In this case, I can't bring myself to conclude that Casey intentionally harmed her child - BPD or no. I am having trouble incorporating that into BPD symptoms. I was hoping that Aprilshowers would complete her story and tie in how BPD plays a part in the actual disappearance of Caylee.

I have to mow my lawn before rain starts. I hope all of you who have knowledge of BPD will be on later. Later...

Once again, so true...

April will have to share her own feelings, but I will share mine. I used to lie all the time. I would make up so many lies just to get out of something, cover-up something, etc. Personally, I don't believe Casey murdered this child on purpose - if she is indeed dead. I am of the belief that she left her alone and something happened. Or, that she fell asleep, was busy and ignored her, etc. I'm not sure why, but I think she coocted this story to save face and not have to admit what she did. Then again, it could be like Susan Smith, but I just don't feel that. Casey has never even faked being upset!

Once I told a lie about something, I'd go on and on and like April said, it became a reality. I knew I was lying, but I think I felt I could get away with something and they couldn't prove I did anything - or something like that.

Like April, I shudder when I think of all the stuff I did. Unbelievable@! So, where I see the BPD thing coming in is with the lying. Have no idea if this is the case, but it is surely something I would look at and I'm sure any good therapist would.

Oh, and don't think the BPD diagnosis gives someone free rein to do whatever. It doesn't. It just allows therapy to proceed in the right direction. It's just a tool and should not be a stigma.
 
this case is driving me so crazy I would do anything for some kind of answers on why this happened, it breaks my heart for the entire family, including Casey, what a waste
 
this case is driving me so crazy I would do anything for some kind of answers on why this happened, it breaks my heart for the entire family, including Casey, what a waste

You and me both! I LIVE for something to come on any of the TV channels! Tonight I'm hoping Geraldo's brother has something!! Oh, but wait, he was checking out Edwards' mistress last night!! LOL
 
April, thank you so very much for sharing this with us. I truly appreciate it, and understand a little more than I'd like to. Your insight into a possibility of Casey's problem just makes it all that more complex. Thanks again.
 
Once again, so true...

April will have to share her own feelings, but I will share mine. I used to lie all the time. I would make up so many lies just to get out of something, cover-up something, etc. Personally, I don't believe Casey murdered this child on purpose - if she is indeed dead. I am of the belief that she left her alone and something happened. Or, that she fell asleep, was busy and ignored her, etc. I'm not sure why, but I think she coocted this story to save face and not have to admit what she did. Then again, it could be like Susan Smith, but I just don't feel that. Casey has never even faked being upset!

Once I told a lie about something, I'd go on and on and like April said, it became a reality. I knew I was lying, but I think I felt I could get away with something and they couldn't prove I did anything - or something like that.

Like April, I shudder when I think of all the stuff I did. Unbelievable@! So, where I see the BPD thing coming in is with the lying. Have no idea if this is the case, but it is surely something I would look at and I'm sure any good therapist would.

Oh, and don't think the BPD diagnosis gives someone free rein to do whatever. It doesn't. It just allows therapy to proceed in the right direction. It's just a tool and should not be a stigma.

ITA. It is also important to point out that Casey's relationship with her parent(s) may be completely different from april and her mother's. Those with BPD come from all types of families with an array of relationships. However, they tend to share common behaviors and characteristics which are exhibited in relationships.

April- thanks so much for sharing. I know my interest in this case is largely due to Casey's lack of concern and other behaviors that are so difficult for us to fathom, let alone relate to. Your story helps us understand the underlying thoughts that can lead to actions that most find odd, bizzare or, in Casey's case...unimaginable.

I have wondered if Casey's recent refusal to see her family isn't the result of splitting, so common in BPD. This is when they view others as all good or all bad. They either love you or hate you, you are either with them or against them...no in between.
 
People with this diagnosis are so hard to deal with. They are extremely manipulative, they lie for no good reason, they stir up drama to put the attention on themselves. The cannot deal with a child who needs immediate attention, they cannot hold down a job, and usually cannot live on their own.

You may want to read the DSM IV description of BPD. It really fits with Casey Anthony.


I guess I get too emotional when I read things like this (above) which goldtooth posted on the open thread - and yes I know aprilshowers responded. It immediately makes me upset - in fact I started crying as I was responding because that is how everyone just generalizes and it is sooooo not true for everyone with this illness. And even if Casey has this it does not mean she doesn't know right from wrong! And yes I know you all know that!!! I too see that she has characteristics of mental illness but basically if she did murder Caylee and do all the horrible things I think she did afterwards - then basically she is just a sociopath and anything less than that has nothing to do with it. I just wish that people who are going to post things about any mental illness really have all the facts (which everyone here seems to have) but goldtooth not so much!! Anyway....thanks for listening!!!

Tonya
 
ITA. It is also important to point out that Casey's relationship with her parent(s) may be completely different from april and her mother's. Those with BPD come from all types of families with an array of relationships. However, they tend to share common behaviors and characteristics which are exhibited in relationships.

April- thanks so much for sharing. I know my interest in this case is largely due to Casey's lack of concern and other behaviors that are so difficult for us to fathom, let alone relate to. Your story helps us understand the underlying thoughts that can lead to actions that most find odd, bizzare or, in Casey's case...unimaginable.

I have wondered if Casey's recent refusal to see her family isn't the result of splitting, so common in BPD. This is when they view others as all good or all bad. They either love you or hate you, you are either with them or against them...no in between.


Very definitely could be splitting...thanks for bringing that up.
 
People with this diagnosis are so hard to deal with. They are extremely manipulative, they lie for no good reason, they stir up drama to put the attention on themselves. The cannot deal with a child who needs immediate attention, they cannot hold down a job, and usually cannot live on their own.

You may want to read the DSM IV description of BPD. It really fits with Casey Anthony.


I guess I get too emotional when I read things like this (above) which goldtooth posted on the open thread - and yes I know aprilshowers responded. It immediately makes me upset - in fact I started crying as I was responding because that is how everyone just generalizes and it is sooooo not true for everyone with this illness. And even if Casey has this it does not mean she doesn't know right from wrong! And yes I know you all know that!!! I too see that she has characteristics of mental illness but basically if she did murder Caylee and do all the horrible things I think she did afterwards - then basically she is just a sociopath and anything less than that has nothing to do with it. I just wish that people who are going to post things about any mental illness really have all the facts (which everyone here seems to have) but goldtooth not so much!! Anyway....thanks for listening!!!

Tonya

Tonya,
Your quote says it all: Be the change you want to see in the world! I love Ghandi! You are indeed doing that with your life. Do NOT EVER let someone else define you. I have dealt with that for years and I am finally able to -most of the time ;)- let it go. People are ignorant. People tend to judge others so quickly.

I think it takes a lot more to hold on to one's judgements until all the facts are in. And, it also takes a lot to be forgiving. I work on it all the time. I had the great advantage of working with one of the leading researchers on forgiveness, so I've had to step WAYYYY back and look at myself! I used to get just as upset as you.

Sounds to me like you are doing just fine, my dear!

T.
 
Just wanted to add something: One of the books about BPD is titled:

I Hate You, Don't Leave Me

That truly gives insight as to how they think ... feel, etc.
 
Ah yes ... splitting! I could stay away from family, friends, etc... for long periods of time, if they were on my 'black' list.

There is black & white ... no gray. All though NOW there is gray ... but before meds, there wasn't.

I can see Casey pushing her parents away, her brother ...etc., to 'get back' for something, or just having them on her 'black' list. I'm not sure what for ... but, that just might be.

For some reason though, I just don't see her killing Caylee. Don't know why ... and I may absolutely be wrong, but I don't know, it's just something that doesn't seem typical of a Borderline, if anything ... they would kill themselves first.
 
April, you are singing a familiar tune to me! My thots however, given my personal exp with bpd, are that it is Cindy who has the disorder. I felt this way from very early on as she reminds me of my mother who has bpd.

There are some narcicisstic traits that go along with the disorder and a preoccupation with getting ones needs met. In my family, my mother would feign suicide attempts and call the local psyche unit to report she was having a nervous breakdown. These episodes occured as we were growing from extensions of her, to our own persons and hence the temper tantrum because she could no longer manipulate us. In social circles she is loved, is a bit of a rescuer, high energy, helpful. But in the home there are bouts of rage and anger and emotional manipulation.

We were 4 kids, all grown now, and our family is a mess. The eldest, my brother, is a compulsive liar. You can't confront him or he becomes enraged, veins stick out, he gets loud, can't reason with him. He believes his own lies.
The second eldest brother is the comedian...emotional disconnected but harmless. Then there's me. I was the scapegoat until my baby sister rebelled and left home, then I was the chosen one, now I am probably just all bad. My younger sister was the princess.

I have 3 children. I experienced post-partum depression after each birth that got exponentially worse. The last one put me on meds and therapy and I realize that I am the product of a borderline mother and was carrying her burden for her. I struggle daily with feelings of wanting so badly to coddle her to feeling like I need to be released.

Recently my father developed altzheimer's and my mother started physically abusing him...hitting, punching, pushing, verbal abuse. I hit a brick wall here. I felt like I had lived through this once and I couldn't do it again, so I disengaged from my family. No one has attempted to contact me in over 3 years. They have all fallen in line with the mother. There is much animosity from my younger sister towards me, we may never speak again.

All this to say, in my case, is that the borderline mother produced children with personality disorders including one with compulsive lying, depression, and perhaps another bpd (my sister?) Perhaps one with bpd could produce a sociopath because a child just cannot be the container of all the parents emotions, anger, and needs. Just a thot. You never really know what goes on behind closed doors.

I have good days and bad days, but being the product of a borderline parent has made me acutely aware of being a better parent myself. Thanks for your post, all my best to you.
 
Once again, so true...

April will have to share her own feelings, but I will share mine. I used to lie all the time. I would make up so many lies just to get out of something, cover-up something, etc. Personally, I don't believe Casey murdered this child on purpose - if she is indeed dead. I am of the belief that she left her alone and something happened. Or, that she fell asleep, was busy and ignored her, etc. I'm not sure why, but I think she coocted this story to save face and not have to admit what she did. Then again, it could be like Susan Smith, but I just don't feel that. Casey has never even faked being upset!

Once I told a lie about something, I'd go on and on and like April said, it became a reality. I knew I was lying, but I think I felt I could get away with something and they couldn't prove I did anything - or something like that.

Like April, I shudder when I think of all the stuff I did. Unbelievable@! So, where I see the BPD thing coming in is with the lying. Have no idea if this is the case, but it is surely something I would look at and I'm sure any good therapist would.

Oh, and don't think the BPD diagnosis gives someone free rein to do whatever. It doesn't. It just allows therapy to proceed in the right direction. It's just a tool and should not be a stigma.

I see it in the lying too but so many other illnesses have the lying too. And like I keep saying to my husband- I can't see Bipolar OR Borderline acting that way after killing their child. I could see maybe getting upset enough to kill but we'd not be able to live with ourself afterwords. We'd be dead soon afterwords, IMO.
 
Btw, Thanks so much for this thread, April! I'm proud of you, as you should be of yourself for sharing your story here!

Never stop saying it out loud! People need to know that people like us are real and that we are a part of their every day lives.. they just don't know it unless we tell them. We look just like them!

I'm OneLostGrl and I have Bipolar disorder and I too never shut up! stigma sucks!
 
People with this diagnosis are so hard to deal with. They are extremely manipulative, they lie for no good reason, they stir up drama to put the attention on themselves. The cannot deal with a child who needs immediate attention, they cannot hold down a job, and usually cannot live on their own.

You may want to read the DSM IV description of BPD. It really fits with Casey Anthony.


I guess I get too emotional when I read things like this (above) which goldtooth posted on the open thread - and yes I know aprilshowers responded. It immediately makes me upset - in fact I started crying as I was responding because that is how everyone just generalizes and it is sooooo not true for everyone with this illness. And even if Casey has this it does not mean she doesn't know right from wrong! And yes I know you all know that!!! I too see that she has characteristics of mental illness but basically if she did murder Caylee and do all the horrible things I think she did afterwards - then basically she is just a sociopath and anything less than that has nothing to do with it. I just wish that people who are going to post things about any mental illness really have all the facts (which everyone here seems to have) but goldtooth not so much!! Anyway....thanks for listening!!!

Tonya

Tonya, the piece that you quoted was from me, not goldtooth. I was responding to something s/he said. I don't know if you saw on the other thread that I apologized for the generalization, and explained that I was comparing Casey's characteristics to those of someone I know who was diagnosed with BPD as a severe case and refuses treatment. My post was not clear and again I apologize. I was distracted and didn't read it over before posting.

I do understand that many who are diagnosed with BPD can lead healthy, productive lives. BPD is something I have read and studied for several years, due to some family issues. By no means am I an expert. I am very sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
Tonya, the piece that you quoted was from me, not goldtooth. I was responding to something s/he said. I don't know if you saw on the other thread that I apologized for the generalization, and explained that I was comparing Casey's characteristics to those of someone I know who was diagnosed with BPD as a severe case and refuses treatment. My post was not clear and again I apologize. I was distracted and didn't read it over before posting.

I do understand that many who are diagnosed with BPD can lead healthy, productive lives. BPD is something I have read and studied for several years, due to some family issues. By no means am I an expert. I am very sorry for the misunderstanding.

I didn't see it but thanks for saying that. Anyway, everyone is different and we all deal with things differently. I can certainly relate to everything that is being said here!! And the book April mentioned is a great book!! There is also the book Sometimes I act Crazy by the same authors. Anyway, I'm really glad to read this thread and see others who can relate to the same things as me!!! Well I guess I'm not glad...but I don't really know how to say that!!! In any event I sure hope they find this little girl alive and make this monster pay for whatever role she has played in this! Take care everyone and thanks again for the kind words! I'm glad we are all here for each other!

Tonya:blowkiss:
 
April, you are singing a familiar tune to me! My thots however, given my personal exp with bpd, are that it is Cindy who has the disorder. I felt this way from very early on as she reminds me of my mother who has bpd.

There are some narcicisstic traits that go along with the disorder and a preoccupation with getting ones needs met. In my family, my mother would feign suicide attempts and call the local psyche unit to report she was having a nervous breakdown. These episodes occured as we were growing from extensions of her, to our own persons and hence the temper tantrum because she could no longer manipulate us. In social circles she is loved, is a bit of a rescuer, high energy, helpful. But in the home there are bouts of rage and anger and emotional manipulation.

We were 4 kids, all grown now, and our family is a mess. The eldest, my brother, is a compulsive liar. You can't confront him or he becomes enraged, veins stick out, he gets loud, can't reason with him. He believes his own lies.
The second eldest brother is the comedian...emotional disconnected but harmless. Then there's me. I was the scapegoat until my baby sister rebelled and left home, then I was the chosen one, now I am probably just all bad. My younger sister was the princess.

I have 3 children. I experienced post-partum depression after each birth that got exponentially worse. The last one put me on meds and therapy and I realize that I am the product of a borderline mother and was carrying her burden for her. I struggle daily with feelings of wanting so badly to coddle her to feeling like I need to be released.

Recently my father developed altzheimer's and my mother started physically abusing him...hitting, punching, pushing, verbal abuse. I hit a brick wall here. I felt like I had lived through this once and I couldn't do it again, so I disengaged from my family. No one has attempted to contact me in over 3 years. They have all fallen in line with the mother. There is much animosity from my younger sister towards me, we may never speak again.

All this to say, in my case, is that the borderline mother produced children with personality disorders including one with compulsive lying, depression, and perhaps another bpd (my sister?) Perhaps one with bpd could produce a sociopath because a child just cannot be the container of all the parents emotions, anger, and needs. Just a thot. You never really know what goes on behind closed doors.

I have good days and bad days, but being the product of a borderline parent has made me acutely aware of being a better parent myself. Thanks for your post, all my best to you.

I was raised by a borderline mother as well. "Suicide" attempts, car accidents, getting arrested, lying, shop lifting.. she creates illnesses when she feels she isn't getting enough attention. She is a drug addict, (in recovery since I was about 5 years old) alcoholic, co-dependent who "lived" for her children. She always told us we were her "whole life", that without us she'd die, if we ever left her she would "kill herself".

She had periods of wellness followed by periods of us having to go into foster care and she to a Psych ward for a month or more. She was never a hitter but boy could she scream and throw things and give guilt trips that could make a child feel as if they had killed a person.

Sometimes she'd want us all to "camp out" in the living room, all cozy and snuggling sleeping together then other times if we tried to hug her she'd yell at us for "hanging on her". She was the most important person in our lives, she was teaching us about love.. needless to say my siblings and I all have issues as well.

My brother is a Scientologist, my sister has been diagnosed with Borderline and Bipolar but continues to say she isn't like me and mom (meaning she isn't crazy) so she has spent the last 4 years unemployed, popping Vicodin and sleeping all day. She even lost custody of her daughter! And me... well, just search my posts LOL.

My step father killed himself 4 + years ago and my mom had nowhere to go so I moved her in with us but only on the condition that she get off Oxycontin, take CBT and get on psych meds... she even goes to church! So far she has been good, not perfect, she still fakes illnesses from time to time but then I just tell her she has to go into therapy again. She's a good woman when she takes care of her mental health.

I gotta say, I would have to stay away too if my mom were to begin getting physically abusive with a family member. I don't blame you one bit!

BTW- I agree that Cindy presents as if Borderline too! I have said it from the start!
 
Tonya, the piece that you quoted was from me, not goldtooth. I was responding to something s/he said. I don't know if you saw on the other thread that I apologized for the generalization, and explained that I was comparing Casey's characteristics to those of someone I know who was diagnosed with BPD as a severe case and refuses treatment. My post was not clear and again I apologize. I was distracted and didn't read it over before posting.

I do understand that many who are diagnosed with BPD can lead healthy, productive lives. BPD is something I have read and studied for several years, due to some family issues. By no means am I an expert. I am very sorry for the misunderstanding.

Though I missed what you said, Most "cases" of BPD are severe and most suffers do resist treatment.
 

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