Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

[Sweetluv]

Do we know if there were ANY leads when this case first happened?

 

[Sweetluv]

Besides the fruit stand and campground ?

 

[T rex]

This whole thing gives me the creeps and is very interesting indeed especially the Chili, Santiago link. I don't think it will lead us to the identity of Jock and Jane, though.

You are probably right so I will get off of that (for now) but while researching it I came across a site. I don't know if it has been discussed here before or not. It list missing persons not found in any of the other databases. The person compiling this info lists it by state in alphabetical order and from what I gather has only made it through Indiana. But I did find one that may have some promise.
Her name is Pamela Jane Penotte, last seen in Daytona Beach in 1976, and it is believed she may have been traveling to Arizona. That's it. No picture, no age, no description. There is a link there but I don't know where it takes you because I can not get it to load up.

There is another woman last seen Aug 9 1976 with an accused murderer but that was in Chicago.

Anyway, here's the link to that site.

https://whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpress.com/2014/12/26/the-missing-missing-part-i/

 

[T rex]

Besides the fruit stand and campground ?

That's the only two I've heard of concerning the victims.
As for the suspect, they identified the murder weapon and determined it had been stolen in 1974 from Durham NC. This probably means that it only passed through a few peoples hands. One of them is the killer. I dont know what their hiccup on this was.

 

[Iona]

I am a little overwhelmed right now and could use some help.
While researching this case I came across the following. Please have a look at the top link (Diane Carrier)then take a look at the second link. Scroll down 10 pictures on the left. There are a few more in there too. What do you think? I have no dates.

http://www.411gina.org/cases/carrierdiane.htm

https://www.flickr.com/photos/peoplestemple/page16

When you get time you should really look through all these pictures of the people's temple. There are many possible matches to the victims in this case.
That could explain alot. Like why no one has been looking for them. Maybe their families disowned them for being a part of this cult or maybe they were part of it themselves and died in the mass suicide that Jim Jones instructed.
There was a wave of defectors in 1975 and 76.

Is there any forums here for the people's temple, Jim Jones, Jonesville, etc.
If not, there really should be. In my research of it I have come across unsolved murders and missing person cases.
I was just reading an article about a morgue that had discovered they were in the possession of remains from the suicide that had never been identified.
Something like this could solve a lot of missing person cases.
Thanks for any help or opinions.

Great post!!!


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[Bit of hope]

You are probably right so I will get off of that (for now) but while researching it I came across a site. I don't know if it has been discussed here before or not. It list missing persons not found in any of the other databases. The person compiling this info lists it by state in alphabetical order and from what I gather has only made it through Indiana. But I did find one that may have some promise.
Her name is Pamela Jane Penotte, last seen in Daytona Beach in 1976, and it is believed she may have been traveling to Arizona. That's it. No picture, no age, no description. There is a link there but I don't know where it takes you because I can not get it to load up.

There is another woman last seen Aug 9 1976 with an accused murderer but that was in Chicago.

Anyway, here's the link to that site.

https://whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpress.com/2014/12/26/the-missing-missing-part-i/

I've seen this and look at it often. It's very interesting and sad. Thanks to this site a lot of missing-missing persons pictures where added in recent years, which is totally great! I'm also very happy to see that they still add very old missing cases to Namus in recent years.

I saw on the Seabreeze high school Alumni association a message from December 27, 2017 that someone is asking info about a Pam Penotte in relation to her maybe missing and an unidentified female "Beth Doe".

 

[Bit of hope]

You are probably right so I will get off of that (for now) but while researching it I came across a site. I don't know if it has been discussed here before or not. It list missing persons not found in any of the other databases. The person compiling this info lists it by state in alphabetical order and from what I gather has only made it through Indiana. But I did find one that may have some promise.
Her name is Pamela Jane Penotte, last seen in Daytona Beach in 1976, and it is believed she may have been traveling to Arizona. That's it. No picture, no age, no description. There is a link there but I don't know where it takes you because I can not get it to load up.

There is another woman last seen Aug 9 1976 with an accused murderer but that was in Chicago.

Anyway, here's the link to that site.

https://whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpress.com/2014/12/26/the-missing-missing-part-i/

Sorry, couldn't edit my last post anymore. The linked article in the missing-missing page about the Chicago missing lady says that she was 45. So that is not this UID. The other one is interesting (see my other post)

 

[T rex]

I found this site today but could only get a partial listing because it makes you submit a search or maybe I just couldn't figure it out.
There are many possible matches. I don't know how you would rule them in or out.


http://www.missing-cy.org/cgi-bin/m...3=&st4=&st5=&st6=%&st7=%&st8=&st9=&sts=Search

 

[Bit of hope]

I found this site today but could only get a partial listing because it makes you submit a search or maybe I just couldn't figure it out.
There are many possible matches. I don't know how you would rule them in or out.


http://www.missing-cy.org/cgi-bin/m...3=&st4=&st5=&st6=%&st7=%&st8=&st9=&sts=Search

Very sensitive material. If you are convinced your loved one is killed in war-acts (and a lot of them were) it's very hard to consider and accept the fact that maybe they escaped and went abroad. Same thing with Argentina and all other country's where a lot of people disappeared during conflicts. I also think they could be Greek Cypriots. You have to go up and up in this thread if you have the energy for it, to read about it.

 

[Brainy]

One very likely reason as to why Sumter county couple remains unidentified is it's very possible they are not from the US. This makes the task of figuring out their identities much more difficult. I think the chances are slim that they will be identified given how much time has passed. I remain hopeful, however.


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[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Very sensitive material. If you are convinced your loved one is killed in war-acts (and a lot of them were) it's very hard to consider and accept the fact that maybe they escaped and went abroad. Same thing with Argentina and all other country's where a lot of people disappeared during conflicts. I also think they could be Greek Cypriots. You have to go up and up in this thread if you have the energy for it, to read about it.

Ah yes, the Greek Cypriots...

One very likely reason as to why Sumter county couple remains unidentified is it's very possible they are not from the US. This makes the task of figuring out their identities much more difficult. I think the chances are slim that they will be identified given how much time has passed. I remain hopeful, however.


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It's so apparent they're not U.S. citizens - it's just infuriatingly difficult to trace both his and her precise origins. I really think they'll be identified one of these days, once the field of forensics becomes even more advanced. I so want to believe that.

 

[Onaliv]

One very likely reason as to why Sumter county couple remains unidentified is it's very possible they are not from the US. This makes the task of figuring out their identities much more difficult. I think the chances are slim that they will be identified given how much time has passed. I remain hopeful, however.


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Agree, especially considering that their parents are likely aged or deceased by now too...


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[Ozoner]

It's so apparent they're not U.S. citizens - it's just infuriatingly difficult to trace both his and her precise origins. I really think they'll be identified one of these days, once the field of forensics becomes even more advanced. I so want to believe that.

I understand that Jacques's teeth were lent out for educational purposes and misplaced, but isotope testing of the woman's teeth would help point the investigation in the right direction. I still think they wete probably francophones from Canada.

Familial DNA research could eventually solve the mystery, too. I doubt there is an active missing-person case on either of them.
Now that more older people are using social media, a campaign targeting users in Quebec and New Brunswick might provide some leads.

 

[T rex]

I was trying to date the picture below and identify the man on the far right. They are drug smugglers that operated out of Hilton Head SC in the 70s and 80s. If you enlarge the photo you can see he has jewelry similar to Jock Does. Unfortunately he is the only one not looking at the camera.


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/740574170610831360/pPVAiNaT_400x400.jpg

 

[Brainy]

I wonder if DNA analysis may be useful in identifying the Sumter couple. I think the most heartbreaking must be that these people have family somewhere and there may be people out there who have hopelessly looked for them for decades with no success. If that's the case, it must have been heartbreaking to go on without any answers.

I still think that their murderer had a personal motive. I don't know what that was, and I just get let go of the fact how they were executed. The most interesting part is that their heads/faces were not disfigured. I know I have discussed this before, and the fact that someone wanted them dead, and specifically avoided to shoot them in the head/face to perhaps be able to take post-mortem photos for evidence of their deaths.

 

[Sweetluv]

Wonder if there is no car, suitcases, ect because the people they were traveling with, are their killers. Drug running of some sort...maybe family not looking for them because of their lifestyle...been estranged.
Or, drug deal gone bad. Would explain being out of touch with family members or friends.

 

[Sweetluv]

Maybe not a couple either....his jewelry and dentistry were pricy. Her clothes..sandles from stride rite..and rings were on the cheaper side. Could have been working together or met up at the time of the killing...

 

[T rex]

Wonder if there is no car, suitcases, ect because the people they were traveling with, are their killers. Drug running of some sort...maybe family not looking for them because of their lifestyle...been estranged.
Or, drug deal gone bad. Would explain being out of touch with family members or friends.

There was a drug sting in 1977 known as operation snowbird that ties Sebring Fl to Florence SC as well as some other places in SC and Florida. I'm sure this drug ring and maybe the investigation too were probably going on at the time of these murders. The link is below. It is the one on Dec 20 1977.
Also, please take note of the statement above it on Nov 28 1977 about the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church on Star Island Miami. When I was looking at it something occurred to me so I did some more reading on this church. Does anyone remember this ?

Iceni69 I know who these people are and who murdered them and they did
not die in 1976.

Or it was something close to that. I don't think that post was made here and I don't know where it originated but it has been discussed on this thread several times. I always kicked it to the curb as a prank post but now it's got me scratching my head just a little.
I think this church uses the Ethiopian calendar which is 7 years behind ours. That would put this crime happening in 1969. And they along with the Rastafari (which this church stems from) seem to have some kind of fascination with the Iceni tribe that revolted against the Roman Empire in the 1st century. Although I haven't quite been able to put my fingeron it. What I'm saying is, who would the Iceni have been in this case? The victims or the perps?
Anyway, if this is just a prank it is a very well thought out one.
Here's that link.

https://books.google.com/books?id=a...ICRAB#v=onepage&q=drug rings sc 1970s&f=false

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

My take on it? ( You know I'll tell you anyway )

A toxicology report and/or autopsy would've ruled out drug use. They probably weren't pot smokers or drug users. Residue or some kind of evidence from smoking weed would have *probably* been observed by a coroner on their teeth; or their lungs may have showed signs of smoking.

That being said, I looked at the book excerpt on Google Books. Operation Snowbird may have involved local drug runners who Jock and Jane ran afoul of. Who knows what may have precipitated their meeting (if we operate under the assumption that the couple met a dealer)... Could their wealth have attracted a small-time dealer who wasn't a "kingpin" but wanted to steal their valuables (her purse, his wallet) in order to buy more drugs. Makes you wonder. Some drug dealers, especially the small-town variety, are unfortunately addicts themselves. These dealers tend not to do well running their, err, "business" because they are always getting high on their supply, which doesn't leave much "product" to sell. That's when robberies occur.

This couple probably seemed like an easy target to whoever did it, drug dealer or not. Maybe there was even more jewelry on them that was removed by the individual, possibly, and given to a higher-up dealer as a form of payment if they needed to cough up a certain amount or "quota" (if we assume a "chain of command"). I get the feeling that for this person, time was of the essence, and they were simply trying to beat a hasty retreat. They were most likely focused on taking what they could before zooming out of there like a bat out of hell.

 

[Ozoner]

My take on it? ( You know I'll tell you anyway )

A toxicology report and/or autopsy would've ruled out drug use. They probably weren't pot smokers or drug users. Residue or some kind of evidence from smoking weed would have *probably* been observed by a coroner on their teeth; or their lungs may have showed signs of smoking.

That being said, I looked at the book excerpt on Google Books. Operation Snowbird may have involved local drug runners who Jock and Jane ran afoul of. Who knows what may have precipitated their meeting (if we operate under the assumption that the couple met a dealer)... Could their wealth have attracted a small-time dealer who wasn't a "kingpin" but wanted to steal their valuables (her purse, his wallet) in order to buy more drugs. Makes you wonder. Some drug dealers, especially the small-town variety, are unfortunately addicts themselves. These dealers tend not to do well running their, err, "business" because they are always getting high on their supply, which doesn't leave much "product" to sell. That's when robberies occur.

This couple probably seemed like an easy target to whoever did it, drug dealer or not. Maybe there was even more jewelry on them that was removed by the individual, possibly, and given to a higher-up dealer as a form of payment if they needed to cough up a certain amount or "quota" (if we assume a "chain of command"). I get the feeling that for this person, time was of the essence, and they were simply trying to beat a hasty retreat. They were most likely focused on taking what they could before zooming out of there like a bat out of hell.

I tend to agree, but I think the couple's motorcycle or car was the booty.