Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

[Ozoner]

I really think their appearance is uncanny... Mr. McMinn’s hair is identical down the sideburns, his chin is shaped similarly, and the extremely bushy eyebrows... Both he and the Mrs have identical noses to the deceased, as well as very similar bone structure overall...

As for the moles being different on Cordelia? Makeup... The Doe photos don’t have whatever makeup the deceased might have worn while she was amongst the living. I dated a woman some years back who had a very distinct mole on her cheek which she concealed with makeup daily.

While the McMinn’s allegedly set sail for Hawaii. I believe it’s quite possible that if they were involved in the drug trade that may have just been a story to explain their absence to work/friends/family.

Also worth noting is the mechanic who claimed to have worked on their car claiming it had tags from Washington or Oregon. The McMinn’s hailed from Oregon.

I don’t necessarily give a ton of gravity to the campground story, because if you were trafficking drugs, you’d likely have a cover story. I see no reason to necessarily believe that what he told the man over a game of pool was true, about the doctor father and where they came from. The ring also may be something of a red herring as there is really no way of knowing if the initials were his or not. The book of matches was likely from a truck stop in Nebraska, it’s likely one would pass through Nebraska if driving from Oregon to South Carolina.

I understand the brother said it didn’t look like them, others clearly disagree, having been to quite a few viewings in my life, corpses rarely look quite like the person you remember in life.

I suppose DNA would be the only conclusive answer. Is it known if it had been compared? Also, is there a better picture of John Doe’s ears?

I don't agree that DNA is the only way to conclusively rule out the match. The differences are striking enough that DNA testing isn't even warranted.

The Jane Doe isn't wearing makeup, so makeup wouldn't explain why Ms. McMinn has a mole that the Jane Doe doesn't have.

As for the noses being identical, no, they're not. If you look at other photos that show different angles, it becomes clear that Mr. McMinn has a nose that is shorter and more pug-like relative to the rest of his face. The hair color and texture are also wrong for Mr. McMinn, and the skin tone is wrong for both victims. Mr. McMinn also has the wrong build: he is shorter, stockier, and broader through the shoulders than Jock Doe. As for Ms. McMinn, she has very prominent ears that Jane Doe doesn't have, and the bridge of her nose is very different from Jane Doe's (which, again, becomes obvious if you look at photos from different angles).

I mean no disrespect, but perhaps you WANT the McMinn's to be a match so that the mystery will be solved. It seems like you're deliberately discounting all the pieces of evidence that don't fit--which are legion--and cleaving to everything that can be forced to match, including a completely speculative narrative.

 

[Triss]

DNA is available for both couples. The McMinns are not the Sumter county couple.

 

[ChefOtheRuler]

I don't agree that DNA is the only way to conclusively rule out the match. The differences are striking enough that DNA testing isn't even warranted.

The Jane Doe isn't wearing makeup, so makeup wouldn't explain why Ms. McMinn has a mole that the Jane Doe doesn't have.

As for the noses being identical, no, they're not. If you look at other photos that show different angles, it becomes clear that Mr. McMinn has a nose that is shorter and more pug-like relative to the rest of his face. The hair color and texture are also wrong for Mr. McMinn, and the skin tone is wrong for both victims. Mr. McMinn also has the wrong build: he is shorter, stockier, and broader through the shoulders than Jock Doe. As for Ms. McMinn, she has very prominent ears that Jane Doe doesn't have, and the bridge of her nose is very different from Jane Doe's (which, again, becomes obvious if you look at photos from different angles).

I mean no disrespect, but perhaps you WANT the McMinn's to be a match so that the mystery will be solved. It seems like you're deliberately discounting all the pieces of evidence that don't fit--which are legion--and cleaving to everything that can be forced to match, including a completely speculative narrative.

I don’t want it to be them, that was simply the conclusion I gleaned from reading the various threads and info available online. I don’t see what evidence discounting it you speak of.

DNA is available for both couples. The McMinns are not the Sumter county couple.

If that’s the case than it is quite settled it’s not them. I hadn’t seen them on the exclusion list.

 

[Roselvr]

I don’t want it to be them, that was simply the conclusion I gleaned from reading the various threads and info available online. I don’t see what evidence discounting it you speak of.



If that’s the case than it is quite settled it’s not them. I hadn’t seen them on the exclusion list.

All anyone has to do is read the thread. I helped Pam with the mystery couple going in NamUs. Their DNA couldn't be found. I'm not sure where their sample was found, all I know is I've asked for the compare from both sides with no answer.

 

[Mando]

But they don't look anything like the McMinns . . .

I have to agree with you. I'm sorry but I just don't see it. In my opinion they look nothing like the Mcminns. If I had to guess I would say the Mcminns couple likely drowned if they did in fact leave for Hawaii by sailboat.

 

[Triss]

If that’s the case than it is quite settled it’s not them. I hadn’t seen them on the exclusion list.

Last time I checked their Namus pages, their exclusion lists were empty. It's a pity, because seeing missing people on the rule-out list would help with working on this case.

 

[Sweetluv]

Well said Triss.
Were tire tracks ever found at that scene and photographed?
Also,where is the matchbook found in his pocket from.....and how far is that state in distance to south Carolina?

 

[information junkie]

I read in a back issue of The Item, a local newspaper in Sumter, SC, that the employee of the campground stated that the couple had luggage. I have not read this anywhere else. Also is it possible the couple were NOT a couple but were killed by the same person and left togeather to make it appear that they were a couple. In one of the newspaper articles, an employee of the campground talks about playing pool with the male victim. He does not even mention the female victim. I wonder just how thoroughly the camp manager and her spouse/employee were questioned. If the male victim was as friendly as the employee suggested then surely someone else at the campground MUST have talked to him. I will add in here that it is completely possible that the victims were never at the campground and that is why LE did not investigate the manager and her spouse/employee.There are so MANY unanswered questions-every time I do a little more research, the more questions I have.

 

[Bit of hope]

Don't want to teach, but if you are looking at the post-mortem pics and do comparisons please keep in mind that a lot of them were after embalming and they look maybe very different then this couple looked in real life.

 

[Ozoner]

Don't want to teach, but if you are looking at the post-mortem pics and do comparisons please keep in mind that a lot of them were after embalming and they look maybe very different then this couple looked in real life.

I agree. The photos of the bodies at the crime scene are more useful.

 

[ChefOtheRuler]

Don't want to teach, but if you are looking at the post-mortem pics and do comparisons please keep in mind that a lot of them were after embalming and they look maybe very different then this couple looked in real life.

After taking a closer look at the crime scene photos, including a few I had not previously seen. I agree the male for certain looks a lot less like Mr. McMinn...

I did have a thought today. I’ve been searching, haven’t found anything good yet, for a picture of the 1975 Coors Sebring racing team... I know it’s a long shot, and perhaps the John Doe has absolutely nothing to do with them, but it could be worth a shot. It would be huge if he turned up in one of the pictures.

 

[Ozoner]

After taking a closer look at the crime scene photos, including a few I had not previously seen. I agree the male for certain looks a lot less like Mr. McMinn...

I did have a thought today. I’ve been searching, haven’t found anything good yet, for a picture of the 1975 Coors Sebring racing team... I know it’s a long shot, and perhaps the John Doe has absolutely nothing to do with them, but it could be worth a shot. It would be huge if he turned up in one of the pictures.

He was probably just a spectator, but it`s worth a shot. He could be on somebody's Super 8 home movies, too.

 

[ChefOtheRuler]

He was probably just a spectator, but it`s worth a shot. He could be on somebody's Super 8 home movies, too.

Right... A promotional T shirt can be acquired any number of ways. It would be interesting to try and find people that worked on that team, pit crew, etc, to find out if they recognize him. I’ll keep digging.

 

[Bit of hope]

After taking a closer look at the crime scene photos, including a few I had not previously seen. I agree the male for certain looks a lot less like Mr. McMinn...

I did have a thought today. I’ve been searching, haven’t found anything good yet, for a picture of the 1975 Coors Sebring racing team... I know it’s a long shot, and perhaps the John Doe has absolutely nothing to do with them, but it could be worth a shot. It would be huge if he turned up in one of the pictures.

A good thought....I did a search on that because I thought about the same, her maybe being a "pitch kitten" hahaha translated out of Duch...I couldn't find a photo but I found a lot of stuff about drugs traveling/crimes committed by "big guys" around that scene.

 

[ChefOtheRuler]

A good thought....I did a search on that because I thought about the same, her maybe being a "pitch kitten" hahaha translated out of Duch...I couldn't find a photo but I found a lot of stuff about drugs traveling/crimes committed by "big guys" around that scene.

I was under the impression from the way it was worded that his shirt was team specific. As it was, Camel, and Coors sponsored the race held in Florida, there was something like forty different teams. I found pictures of a few but nobody looking quite like JD. The vast majority of the information available about the races is about he automobiles themselves. I also found a fair amount of info about drugs and corruption involved in that.

I’ve felt all along that this case is drug related. The mid 1970s brought about an explosion of drug violence that exists until today. Interstates have been, and still are major conduits of drug trafficking. We may never know the motive of what led to their untimely demise, but if I was a betting man, that’s where my money would be.

Is there any listing of LH’s complete criminal record? I remember reading somewhere that the DUI was not his only charge?

 

[Ozoner]

I was under the impression from the way it was worded that his shirt was team specific. As it was, Camel, and Coors sponsored the race held in Florida, there was something like forty different teams.

The shirt doesn't seem to be team specific. Here is a map of the different races from the 1975 Camel GT Challenge; it looks like the race in Sebring was on March 22nd.

ETA: The only Canadian track on the circuit, Mosport Park in Ontario, is now called Canadian Tire Motorsport Park. If Jacques was a Canadian racing fan, he may have frequented that venue.

 

[Ozoner]

Looking at the 1976 schedule for the same circuit, there was a race on August 7th in Talladega, AL, with the next race scheduled at the Pocono International Raceway on August 15th.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_IMSA_GT_Championship
If the victims were following that circuit, they could have been traveling from Talladega to Long Pond, PA, which might have taken them pretty close to Sumter County depending on what route they chose. (Of course, even if they were following the racing circuit, they might not have attended every race.)

 

[Onaliv]

It’s probably been stated before but the origin of the Sebring t-shirt could be any number of sources that may not have involved Jacque Doe even being into racing (t-shirt could have been given to him, could have been bought at thrift store,etc)


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[STANDREID]

Several criminals competed in the IMSA Series in the late 70s and early 80s including 5 (I believe) who were convicted of drug trafficking and one of those for attempted murder. He is also wanted for questioning related to his former girlfriend who vanished without a trace. Then there was serial killer Christopher Wilder who ran in the series in the early 80s.

 

[Bit of hope]

Several criminals competed in the IMSA Series in the late 70s and early 80s including 5 (I believe) who were convicted of drug trafficking and one of those for attempted murder. He is also wanted for questioning related to his former girlfriend who vanished without a trace. Then there was serial killer Christopher Wilder who ran in the series in the early 80s.

Thank you. Do you know the name of this missing former girlfriend?