Mystery Man Surveillance

[NancyA]

There is no evidence whatsoever of abuse in that home. They both got custody of children from former relationships. There are no records that I have seen where CPS was called to the home. There have been no witnesses coming forward to say the children were abused. Lisa looks like a happy and well loved baby in all the pictures and videos I've seen. There is nothing to suggest they're drug addicts or have a checkered past with LE.

Yes, mom allegedly got drunk. If true, it was totally stupid, irresponsible and I'm sure if Lisa was truly abducted, she will have to live with that guilt for the rest of her life and she may also risk losing custody of her other child because of it.

Some people think she made up the black out. It seems people will judge and accuse her regardless of whether she's telling the truth or not.

Black out = bad mom

No black out = defense strategy

Right now, she is innocent. She is a victim and should be treated as such, imo.

What if the cops are wrong? Hailey Dunn's family were put through the wringer but guess what? Months later her case is listed as a "kidnapping". Check this out. The media is reporting FBI mis classified it as a kidnapping BUT the FBI site shows it as a kidnapping.

http://www.kcbd.com/story/15706846/dunn-case-not-listed-as-kidnapping-after-all

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/hailey-dunn

I think I'll wait for real evidence in this case that the parents are involved. Lisa deserves that much.

ITA with everything you posted but the BBM struck me, Stupid and irresponsible? Well yes but I'm so glad I'm not the parent of young children these days because frankly I know could NEVER reach the impossibly high bar that has been set for parenting these days, anything short of perfection and people are talking about taking the kids away from you. It's bitterly ironic considering the number of households where, after numerous REPEATED visits and interventions by CPS and other agencies with solid evidence of horrendous neglect, cruelty and abuse, the kids are still left there until they wind up in hospital or dead.

I dunno about this case but I do know I need far more than what we have so far before I decide DB should lose her remaining child too.

 

[Fyrecat]

Women-mothers- are held to a higher standard than dads. How many dads, I wonder, 'babysit' on Sundays and knock back a few beers watching the game? If mom does, then what?

Mothers are held up to a very high standard. It sort of makes me laugh, because I grew up in the 50s, in the era of my parents having barbecues and parties where beer and liquor were the drinks of grown ups, but we kids were allowed to taste what was in our parents glasses. Nowadays, a child would be removed for it, or if their parents were 'drinking' around them! We had a good time at these parites, and I remember getting put to bed at parents friends homes on beds that had coats laid out on them, with other kids and it was a fun 'sleep over' and fun for all. Nowadays it would be 'neglect'.

I wonder if perhaps mom had the baby in the bed with her, fell asleep and rolled over on her by accident. This actually happened to a young woman I know, and there were no crimminal charges-she was young and had to live with losing her child.

I just wonder if mom panicked, didn't know what to do, and was afraid to call the police.

Not everything is deliberate neglect. Sometimes things just happen and people don't know what to do-they get afraid.

 

[~n/t~]

ITA with everything you posted but the BBM struck me, Stupid and irresponsible? Well yes but I'm so glad I'm not the parent of young children these days because frankly I know could NEVER reach the impossibly high bar that has been set for parenting these days, anything short of perfection and people are talking about taking the kids away from you. It's bitterly ironic considering the number of households where, after numerous REPEATED visits and interventions by CPS and other agencies with solid evidence of horrendous neglect, cruelty and abuse, the kids are still left there until they wind up in hospital or dead.

I dunno about this case but I do know I need far more than what we have so far before I decide DB should lose her remaining child too.

It was stupid and irresponsible considering her baby was sick and she had 2 other children at her care. Dad was at work.

I would even go as far as negligence but like you, I don't know how drunk she was and could only take her word that she was drunk enough to have blacked out and doesn't remember a lot of the details.

Does that make her a murderer? IMO, no but if something happened to Lisa in her care, she will have to live with that for the rest of her life. Perhaps if she was more alert, this may have been prevented.

ETA: I would've said the same thing if the roles were reversed and dad was the one who got drunk and blacked out. To me, it makes no difference.

 

[mamacita]

does JI wear an all white overall/uniform for work??

 

[indepmo]

I just wonder if mom panicked, didn't know what to do, and was afraid to call the police.

That does NOT make this OK!

Not everything is deliberate neglect. Sometimes things just happen and people don't know what to do-they get afraid.

Kinda like watching C.O.P.S.

Office: "Why did you run from me?"
Perp: "Cause I was scared!"

When you are scared or afraid, 911!
It works on any mobile phone even if the phone is shut off due to non payment!

 

[mamacita]

IMO... i dont buy it. ANY of it.

this new potential perp on the video is wearing all white. so, i'm supposed to believe that a man wearing all white AT NIGHT, went into a lit up, left unlocked for the first time and dad just so happens to be working his first night shift..., home, stole a baby, stole 3 cell phones, made a call with one of the phones at 2:30, walked around with the baby not covered up, with her exposed for the world to see, for hours, while still wearing white, at night, stopped between the irwin home and the place he was seen at 4am to light some stuff on fire in a dumpster where supposedly accelerant was used (was he carrying it in his back pocket along with his lighter/matches?) because the flames were so big... then keep on walking some more to be seen at 4 am?

sounds pretty believable to me.. (coughcough)

 

[alwaysonmymind]

does JI wear an all white overall/uniform for work??

I haven't heard about his clothing.

Trying to think who might where all white.....

The donut maker at our donut shop wears all white.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I haven't heard about his clothing.

Trying to think who might where all white.....

The donut maker at our donut shop wears all white.

Painters tend to wear all white.......

 

[Leomoon80]

I haven't heard about his clothing.

Trying to think who might where all white.....

The donut maker at our donut shop wears all white.

The young couple who saw him, (she inside the house, her husband outside of their house who live on the same street said).......walking down the street said he had dark pants like sweats, and what looked like a white "Tee" Shirt. They said they could not help LE with a sketch however, not noting his face, but instead said he was "tall & thin" at least 5ft.8-6Ft. tall.

I think the other witness at the Convenience store or the 3rd one on the motorcycle (around 4AM) said, all white?

 

[MyBelle]

ITA with everything you posted but the BBM struck me, Stupid and irresponsible? Well yes but I'm so glad I'm not the parent of young children these days because frankly I know could NEVER reach the impossibly high bar that has been set for parenting these days, anything short of perfection and people are talking about taking the kids away from you. It's bitterly ironic considering the number of households where, after numerous REPEATED visits and interventions by CPS and other agencies with solid evidence of horrendous neglect, cruelty and abuse, the kids are still left there until they wind up in hospital or dead.

I dunno about this case but I do know I need far more than what we have so far before I decide DB should lose her remaining child too.

Not getting yourself into a stupor while caring for small children isn't all that high a bar. In this case, Mom admitted she may have blacked out, one of the three children is missing and may very well be dead and a trained cadaver dog hit in the parents' bedroom. How much more solid evidence do you need?

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Women-mothers- are held to a higher standard than dads. How many dads, I wonder, 'babysit' on Sundays and knock back a few beers watching the game? If mom does, then what?

Mothers are held up to a very high standard. It sort of makes me laugh, because I grew up in the 50s, in the era of my parents having barbecues and parties where beer and liquor were the drinks of grown ups, but we kids were allowed to taste what was in our parents glasses. Nowadays, a child would be removed for it, or if their parents were 'drinking' around them! We had a good time at these parites, and I remember getting put to bed at parents friends homes on beds that had coats laid out on them, with other kids and it was a fun 'sleep over' and fun for all. Nowadays it would be 'neglect'.

I wonder if perhaps mom had the baby in the bed with her, fell asleep and rolled over on her by accident. This actually happened to a young woman I know, and there were no crimminal charges-she was young and had to live with losing her child.

I just wonder if mom panicked, didn't know what to do, and was afraid to call the police.

Not everything is deliberate neglect. Sometimes things just happen and people don't know what to do-they get afraid.

Drinking yourself to the point of blacking out is deliberate. Doing so while caring for three children is deliberate neglect. The reason these laws had to be implemented is because drunks were killing their own kids and other people. It is a shame that the State has to step in to protect children from the very people they trust the most.

JMO

 

[curiousjo]

The young couple who saw him, (she inside the house, her husband outside of their house who live on the same street said).......walking down the street said he had dark pants like sweats, and what looked like a white "Tee" Shirt. They said they could not help LE with a sketch however, not noting his face, but instead said he was "tall & thin" at least 5ft.8-6Ft. tall.

I think the other witness at the Convenience store or the 3rd one on the motorcycle (around 4AM) said, all white?

The gas station video is very bright, and blurry. Its Over Exposed. That may cause a man in black pants look like he is wearing all white.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I haven't heard about his clothing.

Trying to think who might where all white.....

The donut maker at our donut shop wears all white.

From what I could barely make out, the person seemed to be swinging both arms as they walked and I thought the pants looked slightly darker than the shirt, possibly faded jeans or a light colour other than white. :twocents:

 

[cluciano63]

If Lisa is not found, I don't see any way this case ever goes to court...and if she is found, I don't see any way that all of these "sightings" are not going to cause a major problem for the prosecution.

On NG tonight, the question was raised that it is possible that someone was wandering around with a baby or a doll hoping to be seen to support a kidnapping theory, but that it could have been contrived by the actual perps, i.e for instance the parents. That almost makes sense to me, due to the 4 hour hours of varying times of the alleged sightings, wanting to make sure someone saw them. It makes no sense that the real kidnapper would be out and about more than once, or for four hours continously. But if it can't be determined who this man or men were, the question will linger in jurors minds, IMO, and cause a problem with a verdict.

I am not saying that the parents are guilty...but I don't think we will see a circumstantial case being brought. JMO

 

[~n/t~]

I watched some of the coverage on Vinnie's show when the CM jury was on break.

The eye witnesses were apparently shown photos of 6 possible suspects.

The guy (I'm guessing he is the motorcyle guy) recognized the alleged perp in the photo line up.

The woman did not.

I wonder whose pictures were shown?? Does this mean LE has possible suspects???

 

[norest4thewicked]

I watched some of the coverage on Vinnie's show when the CM jury was on break.

The eye witnesses were apparently shown photos of 6 possible suspects.

The guy (I'm guessing he is the motorcyle guy) recognized the alleged perp in the photo line up.

The woman did not.

I wonder whose pictures were shown?? Does this mean LE has possible suspects???

Who is the alleged perp? Or did I misread that?

 

[linajoy]

I watched some of the coverage on Vinnie's show when the CM jury was on break.

The eye witnesses were apparently shown photos of 6 possible suspects.

The guy (I'm guessing he is the motorcyle guy) recognized the alleged perp in the photo line up.

The woman did not.

I wonder whose pictures were shown?? Does this mean LE has possible suspects???

The alleged perp? You mean "Jersey"?

 

[norest4thewicked]

Does anyone else believe that it is next to impossible for a person to have kidnapped a baby and then walked around the area for 4 hours? I can't see that happening in the wildest of scenarios.

 

[norest4thewicked]

The alleged perp? You mean "Jersey"?

I haven't heard that he is an alleged perp. He was questioned in detail by LE.

 

[sarx]

Does anyone else believe that it is next to impossible for a person to have kidnapped a baby and then walked around the area for 4 hours? I can't see that happening in the wildest of scenarios.

And if someone was walking around for 4 hours with a baby, did someone see him later without one?