Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #22

[reddress58]

Ok. Thanks, SG. Back to the lockers. Apparently by having her card scanned, he wanted it to appear NC was at the club after she left the house. To support this line of thinking, he also may have planned to leave items in a locker belonging to her to make it further appear she had checked in. This is entirely possible without using a card. Many times members simply put items in a locker without locking them, which requires leaving the card behind. A friend of mine made a habit of this and had an expensive pair of running shoes stolen (yes; in Cary at LTF shock/shock) while he was swimming. You do not need a card to use a locker.

If BC continued into the club after failing to have her card swiped, he still could have left items in a locker in the family dressing room. I have no idea because Momto3 has not told us yet if he left after being refused the card swipe. This could be another reason he had her purse with him in the car. He had planned to leave it in a locker.

I have to correct myself. He didn't HAVE her purse with him...just her card because JA somehow knew the purse was in her car, which was parked in the driveway. Brain cobwebs from being away too long. Sorry.

 

[momto3kids]

rdd58....did you find the conversation you were looking for?

 

[reddress58]

I sure wish someone would establish a facts timeline like SOMEONE promised us he would. It would help us old folks keep our facts straight.

 

[reddress58]

rdd58....did you find the conversation you were looking for?

Yes, thank you, Mom. I used to get irritated with folks who popped in on the conversation and we had to repeat ourselves. Now I know how it feels being on the other end. I think I'm caught up.

 

[momto3kids]

I think it comes down to what Brad knew and what Brad didn't know as of 1 - 2pm on Sat. 7/12. Brad DID NOT know that JA had called police and reported her friend missing. All Brad knew was that JA was looking for Nancy, he found out they had an appt to paint together, and JA was worried. He told JA he was going out to look for her (this is some 5+ hrs after Nancy 'left to go jogging').

So in Brad's mind, not knowing what else JA did besides call HIM, he believes (and said this later) that he can't report NC missing for 24 hrs. So again, in his mind, he's got time to be out and about doing whatever he was doing for 2.5+ hrs.

He told LE he looked for her at LTF because he was there; he was not expecting LE to be at his house by 3pm that Saturday, asking questions. I believe he switched his story. I think the original plan was to somehow have that LTF system show Nancy as 'being there/card scanned.' I agree it was a stupid plan because of course someone somewhere would have to see that he faked that visit, but who knows WHAT was in his mind. There is no reason for him to

1. Have Nancy's card on him. He had his own. He could go in and look around.

2. Go to LTF first (or even at all). Why? Because obviously Nancy didnt have her card--HE had it! So a trip to LTF was moot. He could have called them instead of strapping the kids into their car seats and going there in person.

If his activities are as mt3k described, then his visit was not really looking for Nancy.

I believe Brad's 6:15am & 6:40am HT visits are to try and cover himself in case someone saw him out driving around EARLIER and also to try and show (through bogus phone calls) that Nancy was alive as late as 7am.

Of course I could be wrong and I eagerly await learning what LE has ascertained in this case...that is if they ever release any info and move this investigation into a more public arena.

SG...you have described it well....

 

[raisincharlie]

I think it comes down to what Brad knew and what Brad didn't know as of 1 - 2pm on Sat. 7/12. Brad DID NOT know that JA had called police and reported her friend missing. All Brad knew was that JA was looking for Nancy, he found out they had an appt to paint together, and JA was worried. He told JA he was going out to look for her (this is some 5+ hrs after Nancy 'left to go jogging').

So in Brad's mind, not knowing what else JA did besides call HIM, he believes (and said this later) that he can't report NC missing for 24 hrs. So again, in his mind, he's got time to be out and about doing whatever he was doing for 2.5+ hrs.

He told LE he looked for her at LTF because he was there; he was not expecting LE to be at his house by 3pm that Saturday, asking questions. I believe he switched his story. I think the original plan was to somehow have that LTF system show Nancy as 'being there/card scanned.' I agree it was a stupid plan because of course someone somewhere would have to see that he faked that visit, but who knows WHAT was in his mind. There is no reason for him to

1. Have Nancy's card on him. He had his own. He could go in and look around.

2. Go to LTF first (or even at all). Why? Because obviously Nancy didnt have her card--HE had it! So a trip to LTF was moot. He could have called them instead of strapping the kids into their car seats and going there in person.

If his activities are as mt3k described, then his visit was not really looking for Nancy.

I believe Brad's 6:15am & 6:40am HT visits are to try and cover himself in case someone saw him out driving around EARLIER and also to try and show (through bogus phone calls) that Nancy was alive as late as 7am.

Of course I could be wrong and I eagerly await learning what LE has ascertained in this case...that is if they ever release any info and move this investigation into a more public arena.

I'm with you. IMO the trip to LTF was all about placing Nancy there-because this meant someone else besides him would have access to her and she disappeared from there. He admits in his affidavit that he thought he could not report Nancy missing for 24 hours. What he did not take into account was JA calling 911 to find out if something could be done. He thought he had time to do something to place Nancy away from him and thus divert suspicion as well.

 

[momto3kids]

Going back to the purse in the car...and I know RC you are on the same page with me on this....this was my 1st red flag.

I still say he put it there with her cell after he went thru it trying to figure what kind of alibi he could use. The card was there and his lightbulb went off...LTF

I feel he had all intentions of having the SUV parked at LTF once he pulled off the card being swept.

Not going by JJ when he had to sit basically in front of it while waiting for the red light...he mentioned coffee to JA and HP when he spoke to them.

 

[Skittles]

I feel he had all intentions of having the SUV parked at LTF once he pulled off the card being swept.

He had the girls with him, though. He'd have to take a cab home or carry them.

 

[SleuthyGal]

On the topic of whether this a planned vs. heat of the moment...

Some of you think he attacked her as she came home from the party, perhaps doing the deed in the garage. That implies planning, at least to some extent.

Others think they got into a fight and he then killed her...not planning it ahead of time.

As I look at his actions as reported by mt3k on Saturday 7/12, it doesn't seem like the murder was planned. If it was, his planning skills totally suck. Someone who planned (as in more than an hour or 2 ahead) to kill their spouse would have acquired basic things to have on-hand like cleaning supplies and already had an alibi figured out (a la Jason Young). Not that he would have had everyone convinced or anything, but the 2 (or possibly 3) trips to HT, the weird LTF membership card shell game, and other things yet to be discovered, do not seem the plan of someone who thought things through very well.

Of course as we all know, JA screwed up his Sat. alibi plan (and thank goodness for that), and Nancy was probably found sooner than she would have, otherwise. And no, he couldn't plan for the JA thing to have happened, but his mistakes are really big/stupid ones, IMHO. Just the fact that he went to HT at ALL that morning was a big mistake.

 

[Star12]

He had the girls with him, though. He'd have to take a cab home or carry them.

And, of course, there would be that pesky problem of fingerprints.

 

[momto3kids]

I sure wish someone would establish a facts timeline like SOMEONE promised us he would. It would help us old folks keep our facts straight.

If it is who I am thinking he tried and it got moved, or something occured..I'm not positive what it was. I know Fran did one and has tried to keep it updated.

 

[FlowerChild]

I think it comes down to what Brad knew and what Brad didn't know as of 1 - 2pm on Sat. 7/12. Brad DID NOT know that JA had called police and reported her friend missing. All Brad knew was that JA was looking for Nancy, he found out they had an appt to paint together, and JA was worried. He told JA he was going out to look for her (this is some 5+ hrs after Nancy 'left to go jogging').

So in Brad's mind, not knowing what else JA did besides call HIM, he believes (and said this later) that he can't report NC missing for 24 hrs. So again, in his mind, he's got time to be out and about doing whatever he was doing for 2.5+ hrs.

He told LE he looked for her at LTF because he was there; he was not expecting LE to be at his house by 3pm that Saturday, asking questions. I believe he switched his story. I think the original plan was to somehow have that LTF system show Nancy as 'being there/card scanned.' I agree it was a stupid plan because of course someone somewhere would have to see that he faked that visit, but who knows WHAT was in his mind. There is no reason for him to

1. Have Nancy's card on him. He had his own. He could go in and look around.

2. Go to LTF first (or even at all). Why? Because obviously Nancy didnt have her card--HE had it! So a trip to LTF was moot. He could have called them instead of strapping the kids into their car seats and going there in person.

If his activities are as mt3k described, then his visit was not really looking for Nancy.

I believe Brad's 6:15am & 6:40am HT visits are to try and cover himself in case someone saw him out driving around EARLIER and also to try and show (through bogus phone calls) that Nancy was alive as late as 7am.

Of course I could be wrong and I eagerly await learning what LE has ascertained in this case...that is if they ever release any info and move this investigation into a more public arena.

If he killed Nancy then BC KNEW Nancy was dead and lying OPENLY on a lot a mile from his house. While he was out driving around somebody COULD HAVE ALREADY FOUND HER BODY. You have to remember BC KNEW SHE WAS DEAD AND WHERE SHE WAS! The 24 hours means NOTHING, she was not buried, not hidden and was left in a populated area (even if it was new lots, there was a ROAD and weekend lot shoppers). Before he left to go to LTF to look for Nancy Brad KNEW she was dead and KNEW her friends were already "looking" for her and there was a possibility she was going to be found at ANY minute - or even that she had already been found and not yet ID'd.

I don't think BC would go to LTF and try some awkward, and frankly STUPID ploy to set up Nancy ALIVE on Sat afternoon when he KNEW she wasn't and that he might arrive home to a phone call or LE at his door.

See, this is why the HT thing and the LTF thing just don't "fit" for me except as alibis for BRAD's time and his driving around and him being a "good husband/father". BC KNEW Nancy was dead and it doesn't matter WHEN she was reported missing --- he KNEW the body was out there to be found at ANY TIME. If BC killed Nancy he dumped her body on the 2nd trip to HT - he could PROVE why he was out driving around on BOTH TRIPS (scouting the location 1st trip, dumping 2nd trip). In case anyone saw him no-one could prove (before he dumped the body) that she wasn't alive. BC KNEW Nancy was dead and that she could be located at ANY TIME - by a jogger, bike rider, a dog walker, someone looking for a lot (on a typically active for "lookers" Saturday morning). The 24 hour thing is throwing everyone off, for BC, it wouldn't MATTER because he KNEW she might be found within MINUTES of him dumping her body, reported missing officially or not. See, BC KNEW he didn't have "24 hours" to prepare because he KNEW Nancy was dead and might be found at any time. It wouldn't have mattered to him that JA was upset or "looking", all he was focused on at that time was looking like a concerned husband (and father) of a "missing" wife because he already KNEW SHE WAS DEAD. JA might have surprised him with her immediate reaction, but it really didn't matter WHEN the report was made - he KNEW she was dead already and was likely going to be found fairly quickly. Any "cover-up" BC was doing regarding Nancy's death was already done by 7AM - the time he SAYS he saw her last (which was true, he knew WHERE Nancy was and no-one could PROVE she wasn't alive because he was "with her" until that last trip to HT when he dumped her body). BC controlled everything until the moment Nancy's body left his control. By 7AM, he was "ready" for whatever came when Nancy was found - all he had to do is play along with whatever scenario presented itself and repeat the key items - HT 2X and phone call before 7, LTF and "searching" Sat afternoon. JA was certainly "pressing" things earlier from a "missing" standpoint than BC might have considered, but he just played the cards he was dealt, including JA and her involvement. And since JA spoke to BC several times, BC was aware before he went to LTF that JA was upset and MIGHT go looking and find Nancy herself before he returned home. Brad knew by JA's 1st PHONE CALL he didn't have 24 hours - why? Because he KNEW NANCY WAS DEAD and that she could be easily found.

And the thing is that even if he killed Nancy, BC is telling the truth - he last saw Nancy at around 7AM Sat morning....

My Opinion

 

[SleuthyGal]

If it is who I am thinking he tried and it got moved, or something occured..I'm not positive what it was. I know Fran did one and has tried to keep it updated.

He never did it and likely never intended to...he was making fun of those who analyze the case closely. Yes, Fran has a pretty good timeline, which is at the top of the threads.

 

[momto3kids]

He had the girls with him, though. He'd have to take a cab home or carry them.

He did have the girls with him, but there were many ways to have this done.

This is only my thought process and nothing I heard...just knowing what he tried at LTF and the purse in the car back home....

1-go home, put the girls down for a nap. Load and ride a bike or jog back to the house.
2-Ask one of his friends to follow him and take the SUV to LTF since NC was needing her car and the girls needed a nap.
3-Ask CM or DD to watch the girls for 30 minutes for an errand he needed to run and NC wasn't home yet.

 

[SleuthyGal]

If he killed Nancy then BC KNEW Nancy was dead and lying OPENLY on a lot a mile from his house.

Nancy was about 2.75 mi from their house. It was an isolated area, not readily visible even from the paved road. Someone driving in there very well might not have seen her. Those of us who went and looked at the dump site all realized how 'hidden in the open' she was...there is an incline down and she was at the base of that, obscured from the road. And the cul-de-sac itself it a good 1/2 mi or more from the houses that are inhabited, at the end of what is a construction site.

Did Brad take a risk in going to LTF? Yes! Yes he did! Let me ask you this: if Brad did the murder then why did he go to LTF at all? Alternatively, if Brad didn't do the murder, and he could see that Nancy did NOT have her LTF card, then why would he think she did go there? According to him she was out on a 'jog,' having taken nothing with her. His visit to LTF makes no sense in either a guilty or innocent scenario, but in a guilty scenario it adds the purpose of trying to see if he can get her scanned in so she appears on the computer.

And I know they weren't getting along, but seriously...the guy is not worried, and does NOT go looking for her until almost 6 hours later (coincidently when her friend calls and wants to come over to watch the kids). Do you not find that just a bit strange?

 

[reddress58]

Nancy was about 2.75 mi from their house. It was an isolated area, not readily visible even from the paved road. Someone driving in there very well might not have seen her. Those of us who went and looked at the dump site all realized how 'hidden in the open' she was...there is an incline down and she was at the base of that, obscured from the road. And the cul-de-sac itself it a good 1/2 mi or more from the houses that are inhabited, at the end of what is a construction site.

Did Brad take a risk in going to LTF? Yes! Yes he did! Let me ask you this: if Brad did the murder then why did he go to LTF at all? Alternatively, if Brad didn't do the murder, and he could see that Nancy did NOT have her LTF card, then why would he think she did go there? According to him she was out on a 'jog,' having taken nothing with her. His visit to LTF makes no sense in either a guilty or innocent scenario, but in a guilty scenario it adds the purpose of trying to see if he can get her scanned in so she appears on the computer.

And I know they weren't getting along, but seriously...the guy is not worried, and does NOT go looking for her until almost 6 hours later (coincidently when her friend calls and wants to come over to watch the kids). Do you not find that just a bit strange?

I still think this theory requires too much thought process for someone who just committed a crime of passion....not pre-meditated. I have to go with FC's theory because, in his place, I would do the same thing

 

[raisincharlie]

Going back to the purse in the car...and I know RC you are on the same page with me on this....this was my 1st red flag.

I still say he put it there with her cell after he went thru it trying to figure what kind of alibi he could use. The card was there and his lightbulb went off...LTF

I feel he had all intentions of having the SUV parked at LTF once he pulled off the card being swept.

Not going by JJ when he had to sit basically in front of it while waiting for the red light...he mentioned coffee to JA and HP when he spoke to them.

Mt3K

First I hope you have understood my point about Chief Bazemore not answering the question she was asked. There are only a few possibliites as to why she did not answer the question.

She misunderstood the question (not sure how)
She knew the answer but did not wish to answer (can understand this)
The issue was being investigated so can't say (can understand this)

So if she understood this question and danced about it - either she knew Brad wasn't exactly looking or she knew detectives were checking into it. She is IMO too smart to have misunderstood the question. I have a tendancy to think this supports the theory that Brad was up to something but it was not looking for Nancy between 1 and 3 pm on Saturday.

I have really studied on that purse. We know Nancy spoke with JA the night of the party at about 10:30. We also know Nancy did not get home until midnight or just after. It is therefore reasonable to figure that Nancy had her cell phone with her at the party. Is it reasonable to figure she had it in her purse ? From that point one might say she put the purse in the X5 on her way into the house when returning from the party. We know Brad took the girls passports from the X5 once - so there does not seem to me to be any reason for her to have put the purse in the X5 - Brad could get to it if he wanted to obviously. I also find it strange to think, this woman slept in the room with her children but didn't keep her cell phone in close proximity. From this it is reasonable to me to figure the cell phone and the purse were wherever Nancy was, which was not in the X5 but in the childrens room.

This leaves two possible scenarios:

Nancy was alive sometime in the morning not long before the so called 7 am runtime. If so it is possible she may have put the purse in the X5 in anticipation of driving to get her coffee before her run as this was her habit. Either she mysteriously vanished after putting her purse in the car or she went back into the house for something and never came back out.

or

If Nancy was murdered much earlier, and figuring she kept her purse and cell phone close and the phone was in the purse, the only way for the purse to have been in the X5 was it was put there by the murderer. The murderer would have had access to the house to get the purse in order to accomplish this.


Any other ideas.

 

[Star12]

If Nancy was murdered much earlier, and figuring she kept her purse and cell phone close and the phone was in the purse, the only way for the purse to have been in the X5 was it was put there by the murderer. The murderer would have had access to the house to get the purse in order to accomplish this.


Any other ideas.

The phone was not in the purse if JA saw it in there. However, if she stood by the car and tried calling NC's cell, JA would have heard it ring. I still think, however, that BC used NC's cell to call his own. OR he could have easily come back home, made the call on his landline, and then gone back out to HT. He had plenty of time for that.

My other question is this: why would NC have taken her purse to a get together just across the street? She wasn't going to buy anything, nor would she have need for anything you would typically put in a purse. Cell phone would be it. And BC was at the party, and he had keys, if they even locked the doors.

 

[reddress58]

Mt3K

First I hope you have understood my point about Chief Bazemore not answering the question she was asked. There are only a few possibliites as to why she did not answer the question.

She misunderstood the question (not sure how)
She knew the answer but did not wish to answer (can understand this)
The issue was being investigated so can't say (can understand this)

So if she understood this question and danced about it - either she knew Brad wasn't exactly looking or she knew detectives were checking into it. She is IMO too smart to have misunderstood the question. I have a tendancy to think this supports the theory that Brad was up to something but it was not looking for Nancy between 1 and 3 pm on Saturday.

I have really studied on that purse. We know Nancy spoke with JA the night of the party at about 10:30. We also know Nancy did not get home until midnight or just after. It is therefore reasonable to figure that Nancy had her cell phone with her at the party. Is it reasonable to figure she had it in her purse ? From that point one might say she put the purse in the X5 on her way into the house when returning from the party. We know Brad took the girls passports from the X5 once - so there does not seem to me to be any reason for her to have put the purse in the X5 - Brad could get to it if he wanted to obviously. I also find it strange to think, this woman slept in the room with her children but didn't keep her cell phone in close proximity. From this it is reasonable to me to figure the cell phone and the purse were wherever Nancy was, which was not in the X5 but in the childrens room.

This leaves two possible scenarios:

Nancy was alive sometime in the morning not long before the so called 7 am runtime. If so it is possible she may have put the purse in the X5 in anticipation of driving to get her coffee before her run as this was her habit. Either she mysteriously vanished after putting her purse in the car or she went back into the house for something and never came back out.

or

If Nancy was murdered much earlier, and figuring she kept her purse and cell phone close and the phone was in the purse, the only way for the purse to have been in the X5 was it was put there by the murderer. The murderer would have had access to the house to get the purse in order to accomplish this.


Any other ideas.

Yes. She put the purse in there trying to get away from Brad during an argument. He apprehended her before she could drive away.

 

[reddress58]

Mt3K

First I hope you have understood my point about Chief Bazemore not answering the question she was asked. There are only a few possibliites as to why she did not answer the question.

She misunderstood the question (not sure how)
She knew the answer but did not wish to answer (can understand this)
The issue was being investigated so can't say (can understand this)

So if she understood this question and danced about it - either she knew Brad wasn't exactly looking or she knew detectives were checking into it. She is IMO too smart to have misunderstood the question. I have a tendancy to think this supports the theory that Brad was up to something but it was not looking for Nancy between 1 and 3 pm on Saturday.

I have really studied on that purse. We know Nancy spoke with JA the night of the party at about 10:30. We also know Nancy did not get home until midnight or just after. It is therefore reasonable to figure that Nancy had her cell phone with her at the party. Is it reasonable to figure she had it in her purse ? From that point one might say she put the purse in the X5 on her way into the house when returning from the party. We know Brad took the girls passports from the X5 once - so there does not seem to me to be any reason for her to have put the purse in the X5 - Brad could get to it if he wanted to obviously. I also find it strange to think, this woman slept in the room with her children but didn't keep her cell phone in close proximity. From this it is reasonable to me to figure the cell phone and the purse were wherever Nancy was, which was not in the X5 but in the childrens room.

This leaves two possible scenarios:

Nancy was alive sometime in the morning not long before the so called 7 am runtime. If so it is possible she may have put the purse in the X5 in anticipation of driving to get her coffee before her run as this was her habit. Either she mysteriously vanished after putting her purse in the car or she went back into the house for something and never came back out.

or

If Nancy was murdered much earlier, and figuring she kept her purse and cell phone close and the phone was in the purse, the only way for the purse to have been in the X5 was it was put there by the murderer. The murderer would have had access to the house to get the purse in order to accomplish this.


Any other ideas.

What baffles me RC is at one time you supported my theory of how the purse got in the car. Now you don't even list it as a possibility. Do you know something we don't? Hmmmm