Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #24

[SleuthyGal]

They did say they were small scratches, though. I wonder if they took photos. I can't remember now, did the return say anything about photos? I remember there was something unexpected in the BC's physical return.

They listed "Photographs of Bradley Cooper" as items taken during execution of the SW on his home, along with swabs for DNA/forensic analysis. Perhaps that covers it.

 

[raisincharlie]

They did say they were small scratches, though. I wonder if they took photos. I can't remember now, did the return say anything about photos? I remember there was something unexpected in the BC's physical return.

That is uncertain to me Star. Item 1 in the inventory says photographs of Bradley Graham Cooper followed by item 2 which are cheek swabs. item 3 are finger prints.

Perhaps one can think they took photos of Brad while collecting the DNA swabs and prints, and it seems this would be likely. But we do know they didn't draw blood now.

 

[Star12]

That is uncertain to me Star. Item 1 in the inventory says photographs of Bradley Graham Cooper followed by item 2 which are cheek swabs. item 3 are finger prints.

Perhaps one can think they took photos of Brad while collecting the DNA swabs and prints, and it seems this would be likely. But we do know they didn't draw blood now.

Let's discuss that for a minute. The reason they would NOT take blood is...perhaps it would be pointless because there was no blood to match his to? DNA would be covered by the cheek swab.

 

[raisincharlie]

Let's discuss that for a minute. The reason they would NOT take blood is...perhaps it would be pointless because there was no blood to match his to? DNA would be covered by the cheek swab.

The cheek swab would cover all DNA issues Star. I don't think I would read that any further. The thing that strikes me about the cheek swabs - faster laboratory turn around time on cheek swabs than on blood.

 

[Star12]

The cheek swab would cover all DNA issues Star. I don't think I would read that any further. The thing that strikes me about the cheek swabs - faster laboratory turn around time on cheek swabs than on blood.

Right, but I was more thinking of blood typing.

 

[raisincharlie]

Right, but I was more thinking of blood typing.

Blood typing, seems everyone has moved on from this because DNA is so precise. From an investigation stand point it actually holds little value. It can also be done on the spot without pulling a blood sample.

 

[Zeke]

In the spirit of full disclosure, the term "White Tornado" originated on a commercial for a cleaning product. I think it was Ajax liquid, on the commercial you would open the bottle and a cartoon White Tornado would come spinning out of the bottle and leave everything behing spotlessly clean.

To this day, when we have a major cleaning project going on at home, we refer to it as cleaning like a White Tornado.

I keep looking at the store for the bottle that actually contains the White Tornado that does the cleaning for you, but I have not found it yet.

CyberPro

Hi CyberPro,

You're right, it was Ajax. One of their ads is located on this page: http://www.roadode.com/clean_1.shtml


Zeke

 

[jumpstreet]

I think that's because you don't understand what I mean by 'legal decision in a court of law' and how that is made, versus one's personal opinion and beliefs in a case (which are not to be used to render a verdict). I've explained it as clearly as I can.

I think I'm with you on that one now. Previously I equated returning a guilty verdict with the notion: "based on the evidence/testimony presented, you feel beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime". In my mind, those were one and the same. If I understand it though, you're saying they're not one and the same at all, and in fact you can have the latter, without the former. Is that right?

Regardless, even if we forget a 'courtroom' for the moment, I guess I still struggle a bit (based on current knowns) with concluding to a point of zero (or very little) doubt (even as a personal opinion) that he is guilty, without even knowing some keys things as COD, forensic results, etc.

However, I hear and respect that this is your opinion, and that's cool!

For me, I guess I'm still very much open to the notion that there exists a set of circumstances that would lead me to believe he didn't do it. [ Not saying I think that chance is high, but it's certainly much higher than zero ]

Anyway, just curious, am I the only one (based on current knowns) who is of the opinion that it's still completely within the realm of possibility (even if a small possibility) that he didn't do it?

 

[maconrich]

Blood typing, seems everyone has moved on from this because DNA is so precise. From an investigation stand point it actually holds little value. It can also be done on the spot without pulling a blood sample.

But as mom pointed out it could have been a way to get a better look at his arms (if they were covered by long sleeves).

With the marks on his neck, I was thinking more of the possible painted pink fingernail, but the keys are logical considering her father and friends statements (using them as a weapon).

And as far as him not saying how he got them, I'll admit I was a bit confused and wondered if he just gave them a blank look or shrug of the shoulders. The main thing, I guess, was that it gave them the 'in' to ask to look around.


JS, FWIW, I totally believe he did it, but right now all I'd be able to find him guilty of is being a controlling moron :loser:

 

[Star12]

Anyway, just curious, am I the only one (based on current knowns) who is of the opinion that it's still completely within the realm of possibility (even if a small possibility) that he didn't do it?

You would need to go through the evidence we have seen that points to his guilt and come up with a logical, not speculative (no "could have, might have") alternative, real exculpatory evidence. For each and every piece. And then all those pieces need to fit together in a reasonable progression. Unfortunately, we're not writing a script here with alternate endings.

So, that being said, with all due respect and incredible curiosity, just what is it that makes youthink BC did not do it?

 

[raisincharlie]

But as mom pointed out it could have been a way to get a better look at his arms (if they were covered by long sleeves).

With the marks on his neck, I was thinking more of the possible painted pink fingernail, but the keys are logical considering her father and friends statements (using them as a weapon).

And as far as him not saying how he got them, I'll admit I was a bit confused and wondered if he just gave them a blank look or shrug of the shoulders. The main thing, I guess, was that it gave them the 'in' to ask to look around.


JS, FWIW, I totally believe he did it, but right now all I'd be able to find him guilty of is being a controlling moron :loser:

I agree - the blood draw would give LE a look at at least one arm, however it seems like there is a good possibility that LE took pictures of Brad. Don't know of what but in the end this is better - pictures if they reveal anything can be used in court and for the jury to see and review. So it seems to me if indeed pictures were taken and those included any scratches etcetera, it would be a visual document to assist a statement that someone saw scratches.

I thought of the key because of what Gary Rentz said and also because the LE officer only referenced scratches on one side of Brad's neck, may have been more, dunno. One side, his left side, indicates to my way of thinking if he were facing someone - that someone was right handed to have left scratches on his left. Two hands could be used so theoretically there should be scratches on both sides. Holding a key as taught however and the person was right handed, would limit the damage to an attackers left side.

Don't pay much attention - just thinking out loud.

 

[jumpstreet]

So, that being said, with all due respect and incredible curiosity, just what is it that makes youthink BC did not do it?

Whoa... I never said I thought he didn't do it. In fact, I've said based on the current knowns, that I think (more likely than not), he probably did do it. [ Of course I've read through all the stuff, and it's upon that stuff that I base this view]

However, after reading it all, I'm just not convinced beyond the shadow of (or all reasonable) doubt that he did do it. Not yet. Too many unknowns for me still.

Therefore, I'm open to the possibility that he may be innocent. [ ie, I do not consider it an impossibility ] Improbability, sure... but impossibility... no.

Am I totally alone in that thinking?

 

[rwesafe]

Anyway, just curious, am I the only one (based on current knowns) who is of the opinion that it's still completely within the realm of possibility (even if a small possibility) that he didn't do it?

I believe that it is within the realm of possibility (maybe small) that he did not do it.

I was married to a man who was diagnosed with NPD. It was a horrendous experience. Brad does not seem that controlling to me as he lacks many of the characteristics that are common with those consumed with their own perceived image and those that would only serve as an extension of his image. He seems like a man who did not want to risk coming home only to find that his children had been taken away from him. It is entirely possible that NC had convinced him that it would be best for the girls to be in Canada with her and maybe at one point it seemed logical to him and then, after much thought, not so much. Perhaps he offered her up alternatives and she would not consider anything other than taking the kids to Canada. I'm not saying I would kill someone to keep them from taking my kid, but if taking their passport would prevent it, that passport would be in my possession under lock and key!

I looked through all of the pictures I can find on the various sites that had pictures that showed NC's hands. None of the pictures show her nails painted or with gel or acrylic type nails. Not to say she did not paint them before the party....

There was also a statement in a presser where the family was in attendance and the BL spoke for them...that I found a bit enlightening, simply because it came from her twins husband....I don't recall the words verbatim, but I'm sure you can find it in the media section where the BIL indicates that Bella, is doing fine, she is strong willed and will let you know when she does not like something you say or do...he then states, Nancy was always like that too. I think that this makes Nancy sound like a very strong woman, not one who could easily be controlled. Not typically the type a NPD'd person would have any interest in.

I'm sure my husbands hair is my trunk too and I tend to take him to the airport in my car and he sheds like a dang cat and it is always stuck on his black luggage (he is blonde). Just out of curiosity, because I am always digging my very active childs toys out from under my car, I checked to see if there was any hair in my fender well, and there was indeed. Not completely out of the realm of possibility that if it was her hair, she was often doing the same. It also appeared I had run over something disgusting :sick:

Anyway, I hope that he did not do it, for the sake of those little girls....

 

[jumpstreet]

I believe that it is within the realm of possibility (maybe small) that he did not do it.

Welcome rwesafe!... and thanks for the response.

 

[Star12]

Whoa... I never said I thought he didn't do it. In fact, I've said based on the current knowns, that I think (more likely than not), he probably did do it. [ Of course I've read through all the stuff, and it's upon that stuff that I base this view]

However, after reading it all, I'm just not convinced beyond the shadow of (or all reasonable) doubt that he did do it. Not yet. Too many unknowns for me still.

Therefore, I'm open to the possibility that he may be innocent. [ ie, I do not consider it an impossibility ] Improbability, sure... but impossibility... no.

Am I totally alone in that thinking?

Okay, well then, in that case, let's just discuss the issues in the case and should any of those issues point to the possibility of BC being innocent, we can discuss that then. No sense beating a dead horse in a coat of many colors, eh? X:argue:, XX Xther_beatingA_Dead

 

[rwesafe]

Welcome rwesafe!... and thanks for the response.

Thanks for the welcome! I have been lurking here for a long time. I'm friends with one of the neighbors and affi givers for NC and I am slightly paranoid about posting.:silenced: I have just become addicted to this case though....

 

[maconrich]

I agree - the blood draw would give LE a look at at least one arm, however it seems like there is a good possibility that LE took pictures of Brad. Don't know of what but in the end this is better - pictures if they reveal anything can be used in court and for the jury to see and review. So it seems to me if indeed pictures were taken and those included any scratches etcetera, it would be a visual document to assist a statement that someone saw scratches.

I thought of the key because of what Gary Rentz said and also because the LE officer only referenced scratches on one side of Brad's neck, may have been more, dunno. One side, his left side, indicates to my way of thinking if he were facing someone - that someone was right handed to have left scratches on his left. Two hands could be used so theoretically there should be scratches on both sides. Holding a key as taught however and the person was right handed, would limit the damage to an attackers left side.

Don't pay much attention - just thinking out loud.

But I always pay close attention because you see things logically plus pick up on so much that I tend to overlook. (I tend get ticked off at something and then the emotions take over blurring the logic. With the sw's it was his declarations of ownership that had me po'd to no end and back.)

Pictures are good! - hopefully NC was able to inflict some damage that will help convict her killer. And, yes the keys make much more sense than nails for the reasons you provide!! Hmmmm...wonder if they tested them for his dna or bits of skin??

 

[RKAB]

I was married to a man who was diagnosed with NPD. It was a horrendous experience. Brad does not seem that controlling to me as he lacks many of the characteristics that are common with those consumed with their own perceived image and those that would only serve as an extension of his image. He seems like a man who did not want to risk coming home only to find that his children had been taken away from him.

Welcome! I am glad that you made it away from your husband. You're very lucky! I bet it was very hard to get away from.

From Wikepedia, NPD can be defined as:

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:[1]

1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4) requires excessive admiration
5) has a sense of entitlement
6) is interpersonally exploitative
7) lacks empathy
8) is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

From my own personal knowledge of Brad, I would have to say that he would easily fit into 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 (unless he has managed to outgrow previous behaviours, which I don't think would happen without a lot of therapy). I believe that in not wanting the kids to go to Canada was just yet another form of control.

Brad controlled Nancy financially by giving her an allowance, not allowing her to earn money on her own, removing her from bank accounts and household accounts, not to mention taking the kids' passports. I also wonder if he drug his feet on helping her to get a work visa so that she might have the ability to work (which would also give her a better ability to leave him).

Unfortunately, I think he had a lot of control over her because without his ok, she could never leave the USA with the kids. She was a great mother and she was never going to leave her children with him in order for her to get away from him. And now, sadly, she has paid an awful price.

 

[EntreNous]

Motive, no alibi, scratches on his neck he cannot or rather refuses to explain, and his own lies regarding timeline are enough for me to convict. Too many "remarkable coincidences" to actually be coincidences.

A court of law (wrongly imo) convicted the WM3 with much, much less.

 

[rwesafe]

Welcome! I am glad that you made it away from your husband. You're very lucky! I bet it was very hard to get away from.

From Wikepedia, NPD can be defined as:

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:[1]

1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4) requires excessive admiration
5) has a sense of entitlement
6) is interpersonally exploitative
7) lacks empathy
8) is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

From my own personal knowledge of Brad, I would have to say that he would easily fit into 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 (unless he has managed to outgrow previous behaviours, which I don't think would happen without a lot of therapy). I believe that in not wanting the kids to go to Canada was just yet another form of control.

Brad controlled Nancy financially by giving her an allowance, not allowing her to earn money on her own, removing her from bank accounts and household accounts, not to mention taking the kids' passports. I also wonder if he drug his feet on helping her to get a work visa so that she might have the ability to work (which would also give her a better ability to leave him).

Unfortunately, I think he had a lot of control over her because without his ok, she could never leave the USA with the kids. She was a great mother and she was never going to leave her children with him in order for her to get away from him. And now, sadly, she has paid an awful price.

I respect your opinion and he may very well be what you assume him to be, but having lived with one for 8 years, I don't see it with what I have read. The main thing about NPD's is that you are not considered a person, nor a possesion, you are merely an extension of them. NPD's generally do not want or have children. They take attention away from them and their sense of entitlement (your full attention)is threatened. They have NO EMPATHY, which means they DETEST infants that cry and hurt themselves and are needy and dependent. I cannot express how much they detest infants, yet NC herself indicated that she saw him as a fit father...Only when the children are older and can offer the NPD adoration and they themselves become sources of Narcissistic supply do they seem even remotely useful to a true NPD.

I did not get an allowance, I was not allowed to close the door to go to the bathroom, I did not get to go to the store or parties or the beach by myself and he made sure I had little to no contact with friends or family. NPD's are usually amongst some of the most charming people you will meet. Street angels...house devils. They will normally go out of their way to endear anyone close to you, knowing full well if you claim they act differently than what others have witnessed, it will be you that looks the fool.

I don't find the fact that he took her name off the accounts and credit cards, etc., all that odd. They were divorcing and that is what you do when you are getting a divorce. I see it done all the time. Additionally, if he were a true NPD, her name would have never been on any of them to begin with.

But, again, he may very well what you say he is, and perhaps the NPD'd have evolved in the 13 years since I have been rid of mine.