NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

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Doesn't this indicate that the boy was still alive?


“Once they rolled the body, CJH began to foam at the mouth, which could’ve indicated that he ingested some sort of poison.”
No.

Tammy Daybell also foamed at the mouth, in her case because of pulmonary oedema due to being suffocated. She was also dead, and had been long enough to be cold.

It was the turning him over in this case that likely pressed the foamy liquid up and out his mouth.

MOO
 
Is it possible that someone inserted a suppository into the boy, such as diazepam, in order to calm him down? That could explain why he was naked from the waist down. I hate to think of alternative reasons why this poor child wasn’t wearing pants.

I’m not convinced that staff checked on him every three hours.
MOO
 
This is absolutely horrifying. Why would his pants and underwear be off? Was there even a doctor on staff?
Under Residential Team the website lists one doctor as “consulting physician,” claiming that he “completes all physicals and tends to basic medical needs.”

No mention of his being on site. He has a private practice in Brevard so it sounds like the kids are brought to him for intake. JMO I doubt that happens outside of normal hours so was the boy even seen by him yet?

No nurses on staff.

And to add, no psychologist or psychiatrist listed.
 
Another big-big bucks industry who targets many parents at their weakest if they're desperate to get their child help in what seems a helpless situation.

Transportation;​

See also: Teen escort company

Many troubled teen institutions offer youth transportation through teen escort companies, in which minors are transported to their facilities against their will. Parents who sign their children up for troubled teen camps will sign over temporary custody to the teen escort company.[26] This transportation is a service offered in the United States and elsewhere, and is a practice that has been criticized on ethical and legal grounds as being akin to kidnapping.[27] Some of the subjects report not realizing they were transported with permission of their parents until days afterward.[28][2][29] Clients have reported being ambushed in their own beds at home, or tricked into believing they are going elsewhere.[30] Those who have been in the troubled teen industry call this process "gooning".[31] There have been incidents where transportation staff have impersonated government officials.[32] Former clients of troubled teen programs have made efforts to pursue legal recourse through civil lawsuits targeting both parents and the companies associated with these programs.[33]"


OMG!
I have worked with many teenagers and young adults who were gooned. They were so traumatized by the experience and developed MAJOR trust issues and sleep issues. They were terrified of getting gooned again and could not trust their parents at all. I am an alternative to using an adolescent transport service. Minors go with me voluntarily, I never come at night and I am completely transparent with them. I fly them all over the US to programs that I have personally visited and vetted. If I get a bad feeling/vibe/energy I do not use a program. There a few good wilderness programs, like less than 5. It takes so much work to get them to trust me and be willing to go with me on a plane or drive to a program if in drivable distance. I have never restrained any of them. Have I had them run away, or ditch me at an airport, sure. But we always end up making it to admission when they realize I do not sic their parents and or the police on them. I continue loving them while they push me away. And because of my personal background I have street creed with them. I tell them that I think gooning is kidnapping and that I would never send them somewhere I would not send my own teenager. Sometimes I pick them up from abusive teen programs and we go to a hotel while I negotiate admission into a good program. My heart always breaks when they tell me their stories. This type of trauma cannot be processed at an outpatient level of care successfully in my professional opinion.
 
For Reilly, most of their time was spent with their group of eight to 12 students, living in tents in the woods.

The participants are accompanied by three staff members, who are not trained as therapists and work for minimum wage, who are responsible for their day-to-day activities.

“We went once 17 days without showering,” Reilly recalled.

“We were denied basic hygiene all the time. It’s just, that was, again… ‘it’s just part of the process, yeah, I’m in the woods.’”

Another former participant, who attended for three months in 2017 and spoke with WBTV on the condition his name not be used, shared an experience similar to Reilly’s.

During weeks in the woods, the participant said, staff limited access to the bathroom.

As a result, he recalled, he defecated in his pants. He was forced to wear that same pair of pants for two weeks, he said.

[snip]
Jonathan Hyde, who worked at Trails Carolina during the summer 2020, talks with WBTV Chief Investigative Reporter Nick Ochsner.(Corey Schmidt)

“I had kids that were vocally suicidal. I had kids that tried running away. I had kids that would try and fight you,” Hyde said.

“One of the issues of the place is that the people that spend the majority of the time with them are not trained therapists.”

Hyde was given three days of training before being sent to into the woods with participants.

‘It’s beyond cruel’: Inside an N.C. wilderness therapy program for teens
 
Just getting caught up after a long weekend. things that are standing out to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“CJH was laying on his back with his arms on his chest and his knees bent upwards toward the sky.”

According to the warrant, the boy was wearing a hoodie and t-shirt but his pants and underwear were laying next to his shoulder. The warrant said none of the staff interviewed by detectives could explain how his pants and underwear were taken off and ended up next to his shoulder.

“Once they rolled the body, CJH began to foam at the mouth, which could’ve indicated that he ingested some sort of poison.”
Warrant: 12-year-old boy found cold, stiff at NC wilderness camp

ordered to discontinue the use of Bivy Bags. I wasn't sure what a bivy bag is but it apparently is this, which may be the "tarp" like object he was laying on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Camp spokesperson Wendy D’Alessandro said DSS workers were not allowed to talk to children because parents needed to be contacted first.

"So, they never blocked access to the kids," D'Alessandro said. "One of the things that was going on was for any of the children to speak with law enforcement or state agencies, they had to ask the parents' permission. They're required by law to do that. And the parents said 'no.'"
Trails Carolina staff where child died blocked social workers, NC health regulators say

not sure about NC but where I am from by law DSS can talk to any child and in most instances parents are not notified before hand, because let's be honest, in most instances the parent is the abuser the child needs protected from. I get not letting minors speak to LE without a parent present. But DSS not being allowed access to the other minor campers, um, huge red flag for me. HUGE. JMO MOO and all that jazzy jazz
See above for various entries on "bivy bags".

IMO the child died in the fetal position, and staff rolled him onto his back.
 
A very enlightening firsthand account of wilderness therapy.


According to the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs' definition, wilderness programs:

subscribe to a diverse treatment model that incorporates a blend of therapeutic modalities, but do so in the context of wilderness environments and backcountry travel. The approach has evolved to include client assessment, development of an individual treatment plan, the use of established psychotherapeutic practice, and the development of aftercare plans. Outdoor behavioral health programs apply wilderness therapy in the field, which contains the following key elements that distinguish it from other approaches found to be effective in working with adolescents: 1) the promotion of self-efficacy and personal autonomy through task accomplishment, 2) a restructuring of the therapist-client relationship through group and communal living facilitated by natural consequences, and 3) the promotion of a therapeutic social group that is inherent in outdoor living arrangements.
You could be forgiven for believing that this corresponds to any legal or medical theory of treatment. Parents often are.

These businesses tend to be in Utah. Or in Georgia. In any state where the law makes it easier for parents to sign over temporary custody, where small towns cannot betray them for fear of ruining the biggest business in town.


*

Group trust is also accomplished by breaking in new members; by pointed, communal humiliation. The first stick group I participate in is the reading of my "letter of accountability." Everybody has one.

The group is convened, a stick is cracked, and you are given a letter written by your parents. You have not read it before, and you will read it aloud now: a liturgy of disappointments and misbehavior, concern, well wishes. At the behest of the program it includes particular incidents, particular wrongs.

It is difficult to remain aloof after this experience. You are part of the group, and you will later read a reply you write to your parents, subject to critique by other patients. I feel like you're evading; I wonder if you're not rationalizing there. It is unclear if your peers are particularly concerned with the honesty of your reply. I never was.

But there are phrases you learn to say, evasions you learn to look for and point out. It is important that staff see that you have grown since you arrived, that you are now helping others through their difficult early days.


*

Second Nature's website is filled with videos. He speaks like a television pastor, like an infomercial for an animal charity. Your confusion and fear and concern can be transformed into a better future for your child and family.

Throughout the videos, certain themes recur. The environment is "secure," it is a "gift," it will
"transform" everything from your child to your family to your life. "There's more than resignation and acceptance," one says; the child "invests" in their treatment. They "buy in." They "understand what's at stake" and "want to do the work."

Watching all of Second Nature's videos, it is clear that this is the program's fundamental promise: We will get your child to invest in what's happening to him. We'll direct your money to a consultant, we'll push him toward long-term care, we'll threaten you with your child's death to get him here, but at bottom we promise: Your child will leave an active collaborator in his good behavior. He'll be transformed.

But what, precisely, were we being
transformed into?

We accepted that we were trapped. We accepted the
logical and natural consequences of bad behavior. We discovered that our day-to-day happiness and our long-term prospects for freedom were dependent on buying in. We lied, at first. We spoke the program's language and performed the qualities they were looking for. Eventually these became routine.

I was not lying when I left, but I had not been
transformed into a believer, either. It was only automatic: a vacant animation of the easiest way to get along and get out.

*

When I was in the wilderness, I believed I was pulling one over. We all did. We believed we had learned the language, played the part, that we had conned them. We believed we had escaped with our hearts intact. Not transformed, not really.

Did we? Or was this the object all along? Second Nature taught all of us how to pretend, how to better bury ourselves and be agreeable, to get along. It taught us precisely what is required in polite society. It allowed us to believe in our subterranean dissent, but who was conning whom, at bottom?

Is the health superficial? Does it matter?
 
See above for various entries on "bivy bags".

IMO the child died in the fetal position, and staff rolled him onto his back.
quite possible. Any idea s to why he was naked from waist down? That is what I find most disturbing. That is an unusual way to sleep especially in the cold weather JMO
 
I have worked with many teenagers and young adults who were gooned. They were so traumatized by the experience and developed MAJOR trust issues and sleep issues. They were terrified of getting gooned again and could not trust their parents at all. I am an alternative to using an adolescent transport service. Minors go with me voluntarily, I never come at night and I am completely transparent with them. I fly them all over the US to programs that I have personally visited and vetted. If I get a bad feeling/vibe/energy I do not use a program. There a few good wilderness programs, like less than 5. It takes so much work to get them to trust me and be willing to go with me on a plane or drive to a program if in drivable distance. I have never restrained any of them. Have I had them run away, or ditch me at an airport, sure. But we always end up making it to admission when they realize I do not sic their parents and or the police on them. I continue loving them while they push me away. And because of my personal background I have street creed with them. I tell them that I think gooning is kidnapping and that I would never send them somewhere I would not send my own teenager. Sometimes I pick them up from abusive teen programs and we go to a hotel while I negotiate admission into a good program. My heart always breaks when they tell me their stories. This type of trauma cannot be processed at an outpatient level of care successfully in my professional opinion.
Thank you for the input on what and how you navigate these tragically sad and gut wrenching situations yet manage to obtain the trust of these young people who hurt beyond our comprehension.

These youngsters are fortunate to have had you in their lives and may you always be affectionately remembered by them.

As we all here know there are far too few of you working in this industry.

"
 
I was curious and skimmed this.
Many years ago, our son had some problems in his youth. They lasted into his forties. I spoke to a man on the phone who ran a place that appeared similar to this. I did not like anything that he said. I decided this was not a place for our son. I tried to picture my son way out in the middle of nowhere and other troubled youth with this guy who sounded like a local yokel, and it made me cringe.
 
I just really want to know how and why this sweet child died. I don't judge his parents. They were doing what they thought would help their child.

There are mental health professionals that help children. But, if you haven't lived the life of a worried parent, you just may not understand. I had a hard, hard child. He was my oldest. He started seeing a psychiatrist when he was 8 and a psychologist when he was 10. He was never abused physically or sexually. He does have ADHD and was diagnosed with clinical depression at the ripe old age of 8. At that stage, you truly understand that depression is a disease that you can't control - you can't just "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" and cheer up. It IS a chemical imbalance that needs mediation - and coping mechanisms. The cops knocked on my door the first time when he was 12. Nothing serious, but man, did it scare me! I had never been in trouble in my life! I tried everything. I was awake night after night worrying about my child and wondering how in the world I could help him. Psychologists are wonderful, but they can't solve everything.

I researched everything during those lonely long nights of crying - wondering where to turn. I read the horror stories and lawsuits about teen programs. I was NOT going to let my child be in the news for abuse. But, I found a program that was highly recommended and someone I personally knew had taken their child there. It was not a wilderness program, but he did live away from home in his teens for a couple of months. This particular program worked on family dynamics too. We met with a counselor once a week with my child. We went to the weekly program updates. We were able to see ALL of the kids in the program at these updates. They would stand up and tell of their accomplishments that week. Some did not stand up and every single week I cried! Kids were mostly there for drug issues and most were there because the kids just wouldn't obey their parents. Sneaking out, drugs (not just mj - but the hard stuff). I took my child out of the program at Christmas time because the director said I couldn't take him with us on a planned family trip to Disneyland. They gave me the ultimatum of keeping him in the program or not bringing him back when I checked him out. I chose to not bring him back - that was a dumb rule I felt.

I can honestly say that there were multiple teens that graduated the program and then went back to work for the program after. I also know that not all of the teens in the program stayed away from their behaviors once they "graduated" the program. However, I do know that desperation leads parents to do things that other parents may not agree with or understand.

Reading about this particular NC wilderness camp, I believe it was a disaster and a problem for quite some time.
 
A very enlightening firsthand account of wilderness therapy.


According to the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs' definition, wilderness programs:


You could be forgiven for believing that this corresponds to any legal or medical theory of treatment. Parents often are.

These businesses tend to be in Utah. Or in Georgia. In any state where the law makes it easier for parents to sign over temporary custody, where small towns cannot betray them for fear of ruining the biggest business in town.


*

Group trust is also accomplished by breaking in new members; by pointed, communal humiliation. The first stick group I participate in is the reading of my "letter of accountability." Everybody has one.

The group is convened, a stick is cracked, and you are given a letter written by your parents. You have not read it before, and you will read it aloud now: a liturgy of disappointments and misbehavior, concern, well wishes. At the behest of the program it includes particular incidents, particular wrongs.

It is difficult to remain aloof after this experience. You are part of the group, and you will later read a reply you write to your parents, subject to critique by other patients. I feel like you're evading; I wonder if you're not rationalizing there. It is unclear if your peers are particularly concerned with the honesty of your reply. I never was.

But there are phrases you learn to say, evasions you learn to look for and point out. It is important that staff see that you have grown since you arrived, that you are now helping others through their difficult early days.


*

Second Nature's website is filled with videos. He speaks like a television pastor, like an infomercial for an animal charity. Your confusion and fear and concern can be transformed into a better future for your child and family.

Throughout the videos, certain themes recur. The environment is "secure," it is a "gift," it will
"transform" everything from your child to your family to your life. "There's more than resignation and acceptance," one says; the child "invests" in their treatment. They "buy in." They "understand what's at stake" and "want to do the work."

Watching all of Second Nature's videos, it is clear that this is the program's fundamental promise: We will get your child to invest in what's happening to him. We'll direct your money to a consultant, we'll push him toward long-term care, we'll threaten you with your child's death to get him here, but at bottom we promise: Your child will leave an active collaborator in his good behavior. He'll be transformed.

But what, precisely, were we being
transformed into?

We accepted that we were trapped. We accepted the
logical and natural consequences of bad behavior. We discovered that our day-to-day happiness and our long-term prospects for freedom were dependent on buying in. We lied, at first. We spoke the program's language and performed the qualities they were looking for. Eventually these became routine.

I was not lying when I left, but I had not been
transformed into a believer, either. It was only automatic: a vacant animation of the easiest way to get along and get out.

*

When I was in the wilderness, I believed I was pulling one over. We all did. We believed we had learned the language, played the part, that we had conned them. We believed we had escaped with our hearts intact. Not transformed, not really.

Did we? Or was this the object all along? Second Nature taught all of us how to pretend, how to better bury ourselves and be agreeable, to get along. It taught us precisely what is required in polite society. It allowed us to believe in our subterranean dissent, but who was conning whom, at bottom?

Is the health superficial? Does it matter?

This is horrific.
 
MOO - A big factor in these "wilderness therapy programs" is that they lie to the parents too! There are several documentaries about them on Netflix and Hulu and I know people who were sent to them as teens. They pit the parents and children against each other to try and get the children to submit. On the outside, it could seem like a totally valid rehabilitation program for behavior or substance issues.
 
Just getting caught up after a long weekend. things that are standing out to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“CJH was laying on his back with his arms on his chest and his knees bent upwards toward the sky.”

According to the warrant, the boy was wearing a hoodie and t-shirt but his pants and underwear were laying next to his shoulder. The warrant said none of the staff interviewed by detectives could explain how his pants and underwear were taken off and ended up next to his shoulder.

“Once they rolled the body, CJH began to foam at the mouth, which could’ve indicated that he ingested some sort of poison.”
Warrant: 12-year-old boy found cold, stiff at NC wilderness camp

ordered to discontinue the use of Bivy Bags. I wasn't sure what a bivy bag is but it apparently is this, which may be the "tarp" like object he was laying on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Camp spokesperson Wendy D’Alessandro said DSS workers were not allowed to talk to children because parents needed to be contacted first.

"So, they never blocked access to the kids," D'Alessandro said. "One of the things that was going on was for any of the children to speak with law enforcement or state agencies, they had to ask the parents' permission. They're required by law to do that. And the parents said 'no.'"
Trails Carolina staff where child died blocked social workers, NC health regulators say

not sure about NC but where I am from by law DSS can talk to any child and in most instances parents are not notified before hand, because let's be honest, in most instances the parent is the abuser the child needs protected from. I get not letting minors speak to LE without a parent present. But DSS not being allowed access to the other minor campers, um, huge red flag for me. HUGE. JMO MOO and all that jazzy jazz
Since it was declared not a "natural death" hopefully they have some damn good forensic people examining the boy's body and clothing and if they're not capable they call in experts from elsewhere.

"According to the warrant, the boy was wearing a hoodie and t-shirt but his pants and underwear were laying next to his shoulder. The warrant said none of the staff interviewed by detectives could explain how his pants and underwear were taken off and ended up next to his shoulder."
 
For Reilly, most of their time was spent with their group of eight to 12 students, living in tents in the woods.

The participants are accompanied by three staff members, who are not trained as therapists and work for minimum wage, who are responsible for their day-to-day activities.

“We went once 17 days without showering,” Reilly recalled.

“We were denied basic hygiene all the time. It’s just, that was, again… ‘it’s just part of the process, yeah, I’m in the woods.’”

Another former participant, who attended for three months in 2017 and spoke with WBTV on the condition his name not be used, shared an experience similar to Reilly’s.

During weeks in the woods, the participant said, staff limited access to the bathroom.

As a result, he recalled, he defecated in his pants. He was forced to wear that same pair of pants for two weeks, he said.

[snip]
Jonathan Hyde, who worked at Trails Carolina during the summer 2020, talks with WBTV Chief Investigative Reporter Nick Ochsner.(Corey Schmidt)

“I had kids that were vocally suicidal. I had kids that tried running away. I had kids that would try and fight you,” Hyde said.

“One of the issues of the place is that the people that spend the majority of the time with them are not trained therapists.”

Hyde was given three days of training before being sent to into the woods with participants.

‘It’s beyond cruel’: Inside an N.C. wilderness therapy program for teens
Re: the former participant:
Withholding toilet access? Made to wear pants filled with fecal matter? WTH? So let’s think… starting with physical illnesses caused by forced incontinence, probable bacterial infections and maybe even the beginning of decubitus ulcers. It’s a wonder the camp was never closed for health violations.

IMO no one requires “training” to know you don’t do that to another person. I bet staff turnover is high. The website lists a bunch of people with letters after their names like:

LCSW
MA
NCC
LCMHC
MSW
LCAS
ASDCS
LPC

And so on. Were any of them aware of the horrific treatment and sanitation issues? What’s wrong with them?
MOO and boy am I mad.
 
Last edited:
Sorry if this was mentioned already, but I recently watched a documentary on Netflix about wilderness camps called ‘Hell Camp’. You couldn’t pay me enough to send one of my children to these places. The fact that the parents consent to their child being ‘kidnapped’ by strangers, unbeknownst to the child, is already emotionally traumatizing and a huge breach of trust. IMO
 
Just getting caught up after a long weekend. things that are standing out to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“CJH was laying on his back with his arms on his chest and his knees bent upwards toward the sky.”

According to the warrant, the boy was wearing a hoodie and t-shirt but his pants and underwear were laying next to his shoulder. The warrant said none of the staff interviewed by detectives could explain how his pants and underwear were taken off and ended up next to his shoulder.

“Once they rolled the body, CJH began to foam at the mouth, which could’ve indicated that he ingested some sort of poison.”
Warrant: 12-year-old boy found cold, stiff at NC wilderness camp

ordered to discontinue the use of Bivy Bags. I wasn't sure what a bivy bag is but it apparently is this, which may be the "tarp" like object he was laying on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Camp spokesperson Wendy D’Alessandro said DSS workers were not allowed to talk to children because parents needed to be contacted first.

"So, they never blocked access to the kids," D'Alessandro said. "One of the things that was going on was for any of the children to speak with law enforcement or state agencies, they had to ask the parents' permission. They're required by law to do that. And the parents said 'no.'"
Trails Carolina staff where child died blocked social workers, NC health regulators say

not sure about NC but where I am from by law DSS can talk to any child and in most instances parents are not notified before hand, because let's be honest, in most instances the parent is the abuser the child needs protected from. I get not letting minors speak to LE without a parent present. But DSS not being allowed access to the other minor campers, um, huge red flag for me. HUGE. JMO MOO and all that jazzy jazz
"And the parents said 'no.'"

I find this hard to believe or is it because I really don't want to believe it?

What if it was their child comes to mind.
 

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