NC - 12-year-old dies at Trails Carolina wilderness therapy camp, Lake Toxaway, February 2024

[RickshawFan]

In the experiences of people I know who have opted for this for their children, the people come in the middle of the night and they inform the teen of what they are there for, the parent/guardian is in communication with the teen regarding the destructive behavior, and the teen has an opportunity to speak with the parent/guardian with the staff transporting them. After the conversation, the teen is asked if they are willing to go. If not, the parent makes the decision to have them go under the power of the transport team.

No doubt this is traumatizing and can cause a severe break in the trust/bond with the parent/guardian. It is easier to have kids who are internalizing their pain/issues because they are often wanting the help. People with drug issues or severe violence issues or gang issues often do not see an issue with their behavior until they are at bottom or have had a catastrophic event.

Again, I have seen these programs work and not work. At issue is that we as a country don't have good mental health options, program options, getting out of poverty options and, often, mediocre school options. This is a no win for many kids and their families.

But kids who attend these camps have wealthy parents, no? They're up to $30k per month. So, it's not about schooling, or poverty, or lack of access to counselors. They prolly have all those pieces in place.

Maybe for a 16-year-old I could see something a bit more forceful, but a 12-year-old? I can almost feel his misery.

I doubt we're going to get much more info on the background for this case.

 

[RickshawFan]

It seems that these camps are founded, run and staffed by sadists for the most part.

JMO

I note this one is privately owned. And when you look at how much parents are paying (up to $1k a DAY!!!!!), with no specialists and only minimum wage staff, it seems there's a very beneficial wealth model at this camp.

 

[RickshawFan]

Pathological Demand Avoidance? Isn't that what kids are all about anyway?

Refusing to clean their room, etc. is NOT the same as setting fires, acting out sexually, assaulting other people, etc.

I would say most kids at some point are into demand avoidance, but it's not pathological.

 

[RickshawFan]

I’m trying to think like the parent of a severely troubled teen who is a danger to themself and others. If you’ve done the research to find the best possible residential treatment program for your child, how are you going to get them there? If you try to take them yourself, your teen will not submit and will probably escape at the airport or from the car. A transport team such as you describe in your first paragraph (where there is communication) seems to be the only option. Is the trauma and break in trust worth it? It may seem like a risk worth taking to a parent trying to save their child. I‘m not condoning these transport teams, but in these extreme situations there are no good options and I can see why parents consent to it. No doubt it seems like the lesser of two evils. But how horrible that there aren’t better options available.

JMO

My problem with it all is that sometimes kids are doing kid behaviors and some parents jump to the conclusion it's pathological. Then they try to hit the nail with a jack hammer, without first trying other tools. This is what happened in the Ferriter situation, where they don't seem to have tried anything except yelling, insulting, depriving, and entombing their son.

 

[RickshawFan]

These camps claim to be helping kids by placing them in a natural environment, but it seems like the owners are using nature to torture them. This is not like a fun campout where you squeal at caterpillars and take skinny dips. From its PR, every day at that camp is deprivation, with more and more creature comforts removed. Absolutely terrifying.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

But kids who attend these camps have wealthy parents, no? They're up to $30k per month. So, it's not about schooling, or poverty, or lack of access to counselors. They prolly have all those pieces in place.

Maybe for a 16-year-old I could see something a bit more forceful, but a 12-year-old? I can almost feel his misery.

I doubt we're going to get much more info on the background for this case.

I can't condone sending any child here, especially when they have the resources to pay for proper therapy, but especially not children with autism, adhd, add, and other neuroedivergence, which this camp says they can help with. How do they think they will do anything other than damage to these kids? Scare the neurodivergance away? Deprive them of basic human decency until they learn how to mask the very essence of who they are?.

I agree with every point you have made in this thread!.

 

[Cedars]

I’m trying to think like the parent of a severely troubled teen who is a danger to themself and others. If you’ve done the research to find the best possible residential treatment program for your child, how are you going to get them there? If you try to take them yourself, your teen will not submit and will probably escape at the airport or from the car. A transport team such as you describe in your first paragraph (where there is communication) seems to be the only option. Is the trauma and break in trust worth it? It may seem like a risk worth taking to a parent trying to save their child. I‘m not condoning these transport teams, but in these extreme situations there are no good options and I can see why parents consent to it. No doubt it seems like the lesser of two evils. But how horrible that there aren’t better options available.

JMO

I guess maybe it depends what they're trying to save their child from? For example, after she was arrested for abuse of her youngest children, it was revealed Ruby Franke had sent an older son to involuntary wilderness therapy to stop him from self-pleasuring. To many people of her faith, that is a terrible sin that must be stamped out using any means possible.

I know a local father was appalled that his son played 'too many' video games. He was angry and took the gamer away completely, 'forever' - the boy ran away and killed himself.

IMO, parents should probably clean up their own act with a wilderness retreat or two, before they enroll their child.

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

I can't condone sending any child here, especially when they have the resources to pay for proper therapy, but especially not children with autism, adhd, add, and other neuroedivergence, which this camp says they can help with. How do they think they will do anything other than damage to these kids? Scare the neurodivergance away? Deprive them of basic human decency until they learn how to mask the very essence of who they are?.

I agree with every point you have made in this thread!.

I agree. I felt queasy when I saw how welcoming that camp is to children on the spectrum. Imagine just even the noise levels in those cabins! And probably yelling from staff! And you combine that with all the other conditions the owners welcome? All at the same time?

 

[Lilibet]

A teen who is a danger to themselves or others belongs in a hospital ER for a full evaluation, not kidnapped in the middle of the night to a wilderness camp whose reported untrained staff can abuse them into submission.
MOO.

Yes, of course they need to be evaluated in ER. That goes without saying, which is why I didn’t say it in my post. I would assume that a desperate parent has tried this multiple times, only to have a temporary hold (bandaid) placed on the child. I don’t think most parents send their child to one of these camps as the first option.

There is no doubt our mental health system is under severe strain and there are treatment deserts. That is no excuse for a wilderness camp. It's like saying if there's no therapy available for an adult with depression, let's ship them off to prison instead. It is not the same. A wilderness program is NOT treatment, IMO. Just because they're children and we don't know what to do doesn't mean we should abandon reason and allow them to be traumatized. We wouldn't allow adults to be treated this way. Why on earth is the bar lower for defenseless kids?

MOO.

But there is therapy available (medication and counseling) for an adult with depression, so your prison comparison doesn’t make sense. There is very little, if anything, a parent of a dangerously troubled child can access for help. The U.S. is a “treatment desert” for the seriously mentally ill.

I am in no way condoning these camps. I think they should be shut down. But from the way they present themselves on their websites I can see a desperate parent (with money) seeing them as a great solution. There is nothing on their websites that indicates a child will be traumatized. I don’t see anything about transport in the middle of the night. Of COURSE they are not what they present themselves to be. But I’m not going to condemn the parents of a truly troubled/dangerous child for being desperate.

My problem with it all is that sometimes kids are doing kid behaviors and some parents jump to the conclusion it's pathological. Then they try to hit the nail with a jack hammer, without first trying other tools. This is what happened in the Ferriter situation, where they don't seem to have tried anything except yelling, insulting, depriving, and entombing their son.

I think it’s clear that I am not talking about kids doing kid behaviors. I’m not talking about ADHD or being on the spectrum or anything that can be safely treated on an outpatient basis. I am talking about a “severely troubled teen who is a danger to themselves or others” to quote my post. I am talking about parents who have done all they can to get help for their child and see a camp as a valid last resort. From our position on the outside looking in, knowing what we know about these camps, it’s easy to make assumptions that the parents are abusive or have not tried other tools. And I have no doubt that there are some like that. But I also think that there are sincere and desperate parents who are encouraged to try these camps under false pretenses. I have compassion for them and for their children. It’s a horrible situation to be in and these camps are taking advantage of these parents and children to make money.
JMO

 

[SpicyFruit]

The stories I have heard from survivors of these camps are so scary and sad. Stories from kids admitting they were bad and needed something but camps made it worse, to kids that were there for something as simple as their parents thinking they were hanging out with the wrong crowd. I remember watching one guy's story and he was there because he was homosexual.

There are a lot of stories told by survivors on all social media platforms. Teens for Profit on IG is how I first learned about it. While I have heard some good things can come from some of these places, I have just heard way too many bad things to ever think this should be an option. The new doc on Netflix was a decent watch as well.

This child would not even be the first to die in these situations, and also won't be the last. I can only guess he will go just like so many others and get swept under the rug. This absolutely should not be legal. If parents were doing some of these things in their own homes, they would be arrested for child abuse.

 

[Lilibet]

I guess maybe it depends what they're trying to save their child from? For example, after she was arrested for abuse of her youngest children, it was revealed Ruby Franke had sent an older son to involuntary wilderness therapy to stop him from self-pleasuring. To many people of her faith, that is a terrible sin that must be stamped out using any means possible.

I know a local father was appalled that his son played 'too many' video games. He was angry and took the gamer away completely, 'forever' - the boy ran away and killed himself.

IMO, parents should probably clean up their own act with a wilderness retreat or two, before they enroll their child.

JMO

Yes, there’s a huge difference between saving a child’s life and saving them from your examples. Again, I’m only talking about responsible parents of “a severely troubled teen who is a danger to themself and others” to quote my post. Parents who have tried everything in desperation to help their child. Not the type of parents you describe who don’t see themselves as the problem. They are despicable.

I agree with Paris Hilton that these camps need to be shut down. But until there are valid alternatives available, these camps will continue to prey on well-meaning desperate parents.

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

In treatment there are two distinct theories, one is to break down the narcissism and hard core lack of empathy to try to get the person to change. The other theory is patient centered, and to start where the client is, to develop a relationship where they are, build up their self esteem and awareness of their behavior and consequences.

I am not a fan of breaking down people who are already in a defensive mode from years of trauma.

I used to work at a residential school where we had horses, and the kids were assigned a horse during their stay. You can't make a horse do things it doesn't want to do. This was an epiphany for clients, and also for their parents.

That is the type of place to send kids.

 

[Lusitana]

Most of the kids that are sent to wilderness "therapy" don't actually go back home after completing these "programs", they are sent to other "treatment" facilities where the abuse continues.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

But there is therapy available (medication and counseling) for an adult with depression, so your prison comparison doesn’t make sense. There is very little, if anything, a parent of a dangerously troubled child can access for help. The U.S. is a “treatment desert” for the seriously mentally ill.

SBMFF. That is inaccurate. All the services available for adults are available for children. There are entire medical fields, resources, hospitals, therapists, medication prescribers, and legitimate treatment centers dedicated to the mental health of children and adolescents.

The "seriously mentally ill" are not who these wilderness camps cater to, IME. They cater to rebellious kids and those with mild to moderate mental illness. The seriously mentally ill are generally in group homes or state hospitals if they can't be cared for at home.

I am in no way condoning these camps. I think they should be shut down. But from the way they present themselves on their websites I can see a desperate parent (with money) seeing them as a great solution. There is nothing on their websites that indicates a child will be traumatized. I don’t see anything about transport in the middle of the night. Of COURSE they are not what they present themselves to be. But I’m not going to condemn the parents of a truly troubled/dangerous child for being desperate.

If you are a parent, IMO you have an obligation to research the people who are turning over care of your children to. That means you should research what these programs are like, the lawsuits, the deaths, the transport, and even the legislative action that's been taken against them. Obviously, I don't know the circumstances of the parents in this particular case, but in general, my opinion is that parents should ALWAYS research any program they want to entrust with the care of their child.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yes, there’s a huge difference between saving a child’s life and saving them from your examples. Again, I’m only talking about responsible parents of “a severely troubled teen who is a danger to themself and others” to quote my post. Parents who have tried everything in desperation to help their child. Not the type of parents you describe who don’t see themselves as the problem. They are despicable.

I agree with Paris Hilton that these camps need to be shut down. But until there are valid alternatives available, these camps will continue to prey on well-meaning desperate parents.

JMO

There ARE alternatives available. These camps exist because they make money for the owners, IMO.

All of these are in NC, where this wilderness camp is.

https://www.uncmedicalcenter.org/uncmc/hospitals-locations/profile/unc-hospitals-youth-behavioral-health/

Child and Adolescent Mental Health Programs | Novant Health

Novant Health offers a range of child and adolescent mental health services, including inpatient and partial hospitalization programs.

www.novanthealth.org

https://hollyhillhospital.com/programs-and-services/inpatient-programs/child-and-adolescent/

Adolescent and Pediatric Behavioral Health Unit at Atrium Health Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center

cplteam.com

Child, Adolescent, and Family Behavioral Health

Duke child psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers provide personalized mental health care to children in a family-centered environment.

www.dukehealth.org

There are ALWAYS other options, in my professional opinion.

 

[RickshawFan]

SBMFF. That is inaccurate. All the services available for adults are available for children. There are entire medical fields, resources, hospitals, therapists, medication prescribers, and legitimate treatment centers dedicated to the mental health of children and adolescents.

Snipped for focus.

Thanks for saying this. It's my experience, too, except perhaps for children at poverty levels, who get way too little professional attention of any kind. But, we're dealing with kids from wealthy families if we're talking about wilderness camps; they have plenty of resources to get access to a huge variety of relevant mental health professionals.

And if wealthy parents want to be looking at wilderness camps, they ought to be running it by the child's mental health team.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Snipped for focus.

Thanks for saying this. It's my experience, too, except perhaps for children at poverty levels, who get way too little professional attention of any kind. But, we're dealing with kids from wealthy families if we're talking about wilderness camps; they have plenty of resources to get access to a huge variety of relevant mental health professionals.

And if wealthy parents want to be looking at wilderness camps, they ought to be running it by the child's mental health team.

Agree 100%. There's a reason there are no wilderness camps for adults who are out of control. It's because adults will not voluntarily go to a place where they give up their human dignity and are punished into submission and we all know it's illegal to kidnap an adult with the purpose of shipping them off to such a place.

But then we have children, who can't legally make their own decisions, and for some reason we have decided that while it would be illegal to do the exact same thing to an adult, it is ok to do it to a child as long as their parent agrees we can. That's so messed up.

MOO

 

[Simply Southern]

I note this one is privately owned. And when you look at how much parents are paying (up to $1k a DAY!!!!!), with no specialists and only minimum wage staff, it seems there's a very beneficial wealth model at this camp.

Seems to have an impressive staff. Many licensed SW, Behavioral Health, recreational therapist, PHD, heading up education, an local MD, UNC grad and many more.

Trails Carolina - Leading Wilderness Therapy For Teens and Adolescents

Trails Carolina is a wilderness therapy program helping teens and adolescents ages 10-17 who struggle with mental health challenges. Learn more.

trailscarolina.com

 

[cujenn81]

www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article285402692.html

Nine days after a 12-year-old camper at Trails Carolina was found dead, state regulators have ordered a North Carolina wilderness therapy program to stop taking new admissions — and to put measures in place immediately to keep children safe.

The letter also states that staff who were in the cabin where the boy died can’t return to the cabin or campsite.

The state’s letter said that local Department of Social Services staff were onsite the day after the child’s death but “were prevented access to the camp’s children” until Feb. 6.

The state said the program must allow unlimited and unannounced access by local county DSS staff, law enforcement and state investigators to the camp, its staff and its clients.

 

[cujenn81]

Warrant: 12-year-old boy found cold, stiff at NC wilderness camp

WBTV Investigates: FBI assisting Transylvania Co. Sheriff with investigation

www.wbtv.com

The Transylvania County Sheriff’s Office executed two search warrants as part of its investigation into the death.

The warrants also provide new details to support claims by the sheriff’s office that staff at Trails Carolina was not cooperating with the investigation.

The warrant said Trails Carolina staff also blocked social workers with the Transylvania County Department of Social Services.

“DSS was provided with first names of the juveniles but nothing else. When they attempted to ascertain the whereabouts of these juveniles, they refused to disclose the locations of them.”

The FBI is assisting the Transylvania County Sheriff’s Office with the investigation, a spokeswoman confirmed to WBTV.

Detectives are investigating the boy’s death as manslaughter, the warrant said.