NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

[GottaHaveFaith]

Were these the guys who just showed up out of nowhere in the 20/20 segment?

Yup!

 

[borndem]

double post

 

[borndem]

I have driven by the apartment. It’s located in a huge apartment complex. It’s in one of the last buildings in the place. The person absolutely had to know where the girls lived.

Agreed -- he had to know not just the complex itself or just the parking row in front, etc., but the specific apt. no. as well as when she was by herself. He must have been determined to get to her. Maybe he simply followed her home that night after seeing in the bar. Perhaps he spoke to her, and she ignored him, etc., or he saw her and knew what he wanted to do.
And this:

Welcome to Websleuths,
mathis007 !!!​

 

[borndem]

...

 

[Webthrush]

Agreed -- he had to know not just the complex itself or just the parking row in front, etc., but the specific apt. no. as well as when she was by herself. He must have been determined to get to her. Maybe he simply followed her home that night after seeing in the bar. Perhaps he spoke to her, and she ignored him, etc., or he saw her and knew what he wanted to do.
And this:

Welcome to Websleuths,
mathis007 !!!​

As someone else suggested above he could’ve been there NOT looking for (nor knowing) either Karena or Faith but simply casing out the apt. complex when he saw K. leave and thought perhaps the apt. was empty and could be burgled. Finding the door unlocked was a lucky bonus until he was surprised to discover another individual in bed there….
I don’t think that’s the scenario, BUT I don’t rule it out (I think he likely encountered Faith/K. at Thrill and one way or another got their address). His relationship to (if any) or knowledge of the women is so far an unknown (to the public).

 

[Simplestarz86]

Absolutely.

I wouldn’t read too much into him having an interpreter to be honest. He could very well speak pretty good English and spell correctly, but it makes sense for them to assign an interpreter, not just because of his family, but because English is his second language and regardless of how good his everyday English is, there’s a lot of legal jargon and technical terms they probably want to make sure he understands. I’m sure they don’t want to risk a few months down the line him saying that he didn’t understand something properly, or that he agreed to something he didn’t fully comprehend. He has the right to a fair trial and the interpreter is, in my opinion, likely to be just part of that process

 

[Simplestarz86]

Were these the guys who just showed up out of nowhere in the 20/20 segment?

Yes! Shooting is rifle in one shot, no pun intended.

 

[Simplestarz86]

Do you guys think Faith sent the texts that went out that early morning? KR leaves and then Faith is murdered? If so, i would think that would put her murder between 4:45 earliest and 5:30 latest. If that is true, would her body be cold by 11:01AM?

 

[CADwrest]

Do you guys think Faith sent the texts that went out that early morning? KR leaves and then Faith is murdered? If so, i would think that would put her murder between 4:45 earliest and 5:30 latest. If that is true, would her body be cold by 11:01AM?

It would be noticeably cool to the touch after that much time.

ETA: The body loses 1-2 degrees per hour after death. After 6-7 hours it’d be obvious that she’s cooler than she should be, if not necessarily “cold.”
I add this because some websites say it takes 12 hours and obviously that can’t be right since she was seen alive as late as 2:30 am by multiple people.

 

[louvillian08]

It would be noticeably cool to the touch after that much time.

ETA: The body loses 1-2 degrees per hour after death. After 6-7 hours it’d be obvious that she’s cooler than she should be, if not necessarily “cold.”
I add this because some websites say it takes 12 hours and obviously that can’t be right since she was seen alive as late as 2:30 am by multiple people.

I would add that Karena and Faith returned home around 3am, maybe a smidge earlier. I don’t know that 2 hours (or a max of 4 degrees) would be enough to have an effect on whether the body felt cold or not. We’re not dealing with a large time frame.

 

[borndem]

As someone else suggested above he could’ve been there NOT looking for (nor knowing) either Karena or Faith but simply casing out the apt. complex when he saw K. leave and thought perhaps the apt. was empty and could be burgled. Finding the door unlocked was a lucky bonus until he was surprised to discover another individual in bed there….
I don’t think that’s the scenario, BUT I don’t rule it out (I think he likely encountered Faith/K. at Thrill and one way or another got their address). His relationship to (if any) or knowledge of the women is so far an unknown (to the public).

deleted double post

 

[Webthrush]

Do you guys think Faith sent the texts that went out that early morning? KR leaves and then Faith is murdered? If so, i would think that would put her murder between 4:45 earliest and 5:30 latest. If that is true, would her body be cold by 11:01AM?

if killed by 5:30am there would likely be partial rigor mortis set in by time the police saw the body past 11, yet it was never noted (unless just not disclosed to public?); I've always leaned toward the murder happening closer to 6:30 still before sunrise at that time of year, but also speculated about the possibility of a much later time, 9:30 -10, after most residents had left for work, though doubtful because Faith likely would've already left for classes. [I think the head blow was almost instant death, but if not, then yes perhaps the crime could happen at 5:30 and yet her bodily functions remained alive for some while before expiring.]

---> I'll add that even lividity (blue-gray coloring) of the body should have begun within an hour or two of death, and yet is not noted in the first police report (nor KR's 911 call)... I just don't know if the lack of mention is significant, but again if truly not there would point to a much later crime.

 

[borndem]

As someone else suggested above he could’ve been there NOT looking for (nor knowing) either Karena or Faith but simply casing out the apt. complex when he saw K. leave and thought perhaps the apt. was empty and could be burgled. Finding the door unlocked was a lucky bonus until he was surprised to discover another individual in bed there….
I don’t think that’s the scenario, BUT I don’t rule it out (I think he likely encountered Faith/K. at Thrill and one way or another got their address). His relationship to (if any) or knowledge of the women is so far an unknown (to the public).

Agree with all -- it's got to be one of those situations. Yeah, he came in to rob, possibly,and there was poor little Faith -- they both probably panicked, and he got the best of her, in every way, and then she was done.

 

[CADwrest]

His relationship to (if any) or knowledge of the women is so far an unknown (to the public).

RSBM

My hunch is that it isn’t known to investigators either, or at least wasn’t at the time of his arrest.
Whether that changes or not probably depends on what they can uncover themselves, since I’m sure his attorney has advised him to keep silent.

 

[Webthrush]

Curiouser and curiouser… found this interesting: at their press conference LE made special mention of Maryland officer Steven Smugeresky as being especially helpful in the DNA resolution of this case… which seemed slightly odd since I would’ve assumed that NC SBI and other statewide agencies could perform all the DNA work required, but now I’ve looked up officer Smugeresky and it appears that his specialty the last few years has been the sort of ancestry work on familial relations that Parabon (and a growing number of outfits) is known for.

So now I’m guessing (JMO) that perhaps Smugeresky used forensic genealogy to point to Olivares in the first place as a likely suspect, and that led CHPD (or SBI) to collect a DNA sample (perhaps drinking glass, cigarette butt, etc.) from the subject which then made the final DNA match.

 

[louvillian08]

if killed by 5:30am there would likely be partial rigor mortis set in by time the police saw the body past 11, yet it was never noted (unless just not disclosed to public?); I've always leaned toward the murder happening closer to 6:30 still before sunrise at that time of year, but also speculated about the possibility of a much later time, 9:30 -10, after most residents had left for work, though doubtful because Faith likely would've already left for classes. [I think the head blow was almost instant death, but if not, then yes perhaps the crime could happen at 5:30 and yet her bodily functions remained alive for some while before expiring.]

---> I'll add that even lividity (blue-gray coloring) of the body should have begun within an hour or two of death, and yet is not noted in the first police report (nor KR's 911 call)... I just don't know if the lack of mention is significant, but again if truly not there would point to a much later crime.

One thing I’ve always found interesting is how the police have consistently seemed to believe Karena and work with the timeline that the murder occurred after she left at 4:25. You can see based on my comment history that I’ve been a Karena defender for awhile because there’s no evidence implicating her and I think any scenarios with her involvement are extremely far fetched. However, I would imagine the police have to look at things a little bit more black and white than my thinking and there isn’t anything definitive to say Faith was alive when Karena left.
I wonder if the police department does actually have a rough idea of TOD that they’ve never released publicly. You’d almost think they have to right? If the best TOD estimate they have is something like 7am, that would also make sense why they’ve always seemed supportive of Karena’s story that she left at 4:25am and Faith was alive.

 

[CADwrest]

One thing I’ve always found interesting is how the police have consistently seemed to believe Karena and work with the timeline that the murder occurred after she left at 4:25. You can see based on my comment history that I’ve been a Karena defender for awhile because there’s no evidence implicating her and I think any scenarios with her involvement are extremely far fetched. However, I would imagine the police have to look at things a little bit more black and white than my thinking and there isn’t anything definitive to say Faith was alive when Karena left.
I wonder if the police department does actually have a rough idea of TOD that they’ve never released publicly. You’d almost think they have to right? If the best TOD estimate they have is something like 7am, that would also make sense why they’ve always seemed supportive of Karena’s story that she left at 4:25am and Faith was alive.

Back at the very beginning, I think investigators found Karena’s behavior pretty suspicious. Apparently they interrogated her for ten straight hours at one point and she came out of that kind of shaken. I’m thinking though that her story was consistent with what certain other witnesses who interacted with her that morning had to say. Also, as more particulars of the crime scene came to be known (unknown male DNA on certain items, semen, etc.), I think the investigation shifted away from her.
Total guess, as they’ve never released TOD, but I’d bet they have a window that largely puts her away from the crime, but not totally. So they’ve never totally counted her out even as they moved in other directions.
Again, all just my best guess there.

 

[CADwrest]

Agree with all -- it's got to be one of those situations. Yeah, he came in to rob, possibly,and there was poor little Faith -- they both probably panicked, and he got the best of her, in every way, and then she was done.

That scenario makes a lot of sense to me, with the exception of the rape part of it. He surprises her, panics, spontaneously kills her… and then rapes her as she’s dying or already dead? If this has all gone wrong and he’s panicking, isn’t he fleeing as quickly as possible?
If he rapes her first, then the killing isn’t spontaneous, it’s calculated…

 

[Webthrush]

That scenario makes a lot of sense to me, with the exception of the rape part of it. He surprises her, panics, spontaneously kills her… and then rapes her as she’s dying or already dead? If this has all gone wrong and he’s panicking, isn’t he fleeing as quickly as possible?
If he rapes her first, then the killing isn’t spontaneous, it’s calculated…

feel like a broken record I've argued this so many times in the past, but I think he was in the process of raping her or forcing oral sex when she either bit his organ, kicked him in the groin, gouged his eyes, or did something else equally enraging, causing him to grab the nearest object and strike her just to stop her; i.e. murder was never intended but the result of uncontrolled spontaneous rage.

 

[louvillian08]

That scenario makes a lot of sense to me, with the exception of the rape part of it. He surprises her, panics, spontaneously kills her… and then rapes her as she’s dying or already dead? If this has all gone wrong and he’s panicking, isn’t he fleeing as quickly as possible?
If he rapes her first, then the killing isn’t spontaneous, it’s calculated…

Maybe he didn’t wake Faith up. The girls had been drinking and it was very late at night. Maybe he was planning on just robbing the apartment but notices Faith in the bedroom and decides to rape her. Then, like Webthrush said, something happened and he ends up striking her with the rum bottle.
With the little information we have right now, I don’t feel there are a ton of “likely” scenarios. While it might not be likely that someone planning on a quick and easy break-in escalates to rape and murder, I don’t think it’s overwhelmingly unlikely either.