NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

[Elisaa444]

Watching Faith's episode on Discovery ID's Breaking Homicide....even though I've watched several shows over the past few years about what happened to Faith and I've read a lot as well...I still found the points made on this show very interesting.

I live in Raleigh so I think about Faith all the time. I have faith this case will be solved. Faith and her family deserves justice. How the killer(s) sleep at night...I'll never know. Sooner or later their time will be up. Jmo/Moo/Imo/Jmho, Etc.

:heartbeat::heartbeat: Faith :heartbeat::heartbeat:

 

[Simplestarz86]

Watching Faith's episode on Discovery ID's Breaking Homicide....even though I've watched several shows over the past few years about what happened to Faith and I've read a lot as well...I still found the points made on this show very interesting.

I live in Raleigh so I think about Faith all the time. I have faith this case will be solved. Faith and her family deserves justice. How the killer(s) sleep at night...I'll never know. Sooner or later their time will be up. Jmo/Moo/Imo/Jmho, Etc.

:heartbeat::heartbeat: Faith :heartbeat::heartbeat:

The show already aired?! I didn’t think it was airing until April 22.


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[scadagirl28]

The show already aired?! I didn’t think it was airing until April 22.


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It was a early premiere . If you go to Investigation Discovery website it will have it under Breaking Homicide . It is Episode Two.

 

[CADwrest]

Shoot, I'm not going to be able to watch it until tonight. Anyone who has seen it: What new information was there, and who did they interview?

 

[scadagirl28]

Shoot, I'm not going to be able to watch it until tonight. Anyone who has seen it: What new information was there, and who did they interview?

I don't think they covered anything you and Skigirl haven't already discussed. However for a newbie like me it was a good overview of the case. My only real complaint was not going into the DNA profile that Chapel Hill Pd released. Somebody may have a ride or die relative or friend that the national exposure could have brought to the forefront. JMO

 

[Simplestarz86]

Shoot, I'm not going to be able to watch it until tonight. Anyone who has seen it: What new information was there, and who did they interview?

Wow. Lots of information I didn’t know and somethings were confirmed that I did know but because of TOS I wasn’t able to discuss. Take aways I found to be of interest:
1. According to Faith’s mother, Connie, they weren’t given a chance to identity the body...not sure if she meant because they were not allowed to go into the apartment or if she meant not at all even after Faith’s body was sent for the autopsy.
2. It was stated that they left Thrill in Karena’s vehicle...I always thought they took Faith’s vehicle-I thought I read that in files disclosed...haven’t had a chance to find yet to confirm.
3. Marisol says On the morning of September 7, 2012 Karena tried to reach out to Faith for a ride and got no response. She reached out to Marisol to see if she could get a response from Faith. I found this to be interesting because what would be the reason behind Faith not responding to Karena but responding to Marisol.
4. Marisol stated that she thought that they would go and pick up Faith and give them a ride to campus instead of them having to ride the bus. I found this interesting because according to the investigators conducting the show they allege that they left thrill and Karena’s vehicle. We also know that Faith had a vehicle as it was parked in the parking lot of the apartment complex. So maybe they didn’t have an on-campus parking pass? Otherwise I’m not sure why they would need a ride to avoid taking the bus if both girls had a vehicle.
5. In the show they interviewed a forensic pathologist Who had reviewed the autopsy. He states that he cannot conclude for sure that she was sexually assaulted as the vagina was intact no visible injuries inside or out.
6. A new dynamic was brought to the forefront that I can now discuss...Faith had an on and off boyfriend at UNC, Ty and a hometown boyfriend, Alex. Ty text with Faith on September 6, 2012 around 640-ish p.m. he asks if they are still getting together that night. She does not reply. The next message Ty gets from her is around 350-ish a.m. on September 7, 2012. Two friends state that Ty Was very possessive of faith. They bring up two occasions,that were disturbing to me, showing controlling and abusive behavior. Both Euna and Roland looked at the message that was allegedly sent from Faith’s phone to Ty’s at 3:50-ish a.m. on September 7, 2012 and both thought it did not sound like it was Faith that sent the text message. Ty believes it was Faith who sent the message. Faith also had another boyfriend a high school sweetheart Alex. They had been on and off since high school. Euna says that around the time of Faith’s murder that Faith had expressed to her about going back and being in a relationship with Alex. This is why Euna believes it was not Faith that texted Ty the early hours of September 7, 2012.
7. Kiera, a roommate of Faith and Karena, stated while she was living with Karena and faith that both faith and Karena had live in boyfriends. Eriq and Alex. I believe this was before they moved to Hawthorn apartments.
8. The investigators working on the show texted with a roommate of Jordan McCrery, the man who picked up Karena the early hours on September 7, 2012. He wants to remain anonymous. He did say that the police did search their house for Karena’s ShiRt, which they found. This roommate also speculates that another roommate thought they may have seen a speck of red on the shirt they would not conclusively say whether they thought it was blood or not. This roommate also states that the other roommate did tell police about the speck of red on the shirt when questioned.

Those are my initial take aways from the show. CHPD was tight lipped as it is still an active investigation. I have thought for a very long time there was too much exculpatory evidence in regards to a few “people of interest”


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[tarheelslim]

Wow, thanks for the summary.

So are we to assume both of these boyfriends have already had their DNA compared to that found at the scene?

 

[Simplestarz86]

Wow, thanks for the summary.

So are we to assume both of these boyfriends have already had their DNA compared to that found at the scene?

Yes, I believe that is true. Like they said, just because their DNA wasn’t a match to the profile they have, doesn’t mean that person wasn’t involved or may know more that could lead to an arrest. JMO


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[CADwrest]

6. A new dynamic was brought to the forefront that I can now discuss...Faith had an on and off boyfriend at UNC, Ty and a hometown boyfriend, Alex. Ty text with Faith on September 6, 2012 around 640-ish p.m. he asks if they are still getting together that night. She does not reply. The next message Ty gets from her is around 350-ish a.m. on September 7, 2012. Two friends state that Ty Was very possessive of faith. They bring up two occasions,that were disturbing to me, showing controlling and abusive behavior. Both Euna and Roland looked at the message that was allegedly sent from Faith’s phone to Ty’s at 3:50-ish a.m. on September 7, 2012 and both thought it did not sound like it was Faith that sent the text message. Ty believes it was Faith who sent the message. Faith also had another boyfriend a high school sweetheart Alex. They had been on and off since high school. Euna says that around the time of Faith’s murder that Faith had expressed to her about going back and being in a relationship with Alex. This is why Euna believes it was not Faith that texted Ty the early hours of September 7, 2012.

RSBM

I still haven’t watched it, but this stood out to me. So, we have a heretofore unmentioned boyfriend who was
1) described as “controlling” and “abusive”,
2) she apparently stood up that night to go dancing with a bunch of other guys, and
3) is one of the last people she texted with? 3:50 is even after the text to BE.

I can only assume he’s been swabbed and cleared, but this sounds incredibly suspicious. Even the Time Out note fits!

 

[CADwrest]

Settling in to watch it now. Here’s the link for everyone:

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/breaking-homicide/full-episodes/who-killed-faith

 

[Ibiz]

Both Euna and Roland looked at the message that was allegedly sent from Faith’s phone to Ty’s at 3:50-ish a.m. on September 7, 2012 and both thought it did not sound like it was Faith that sent the text message.

So "b" gets a message from Faith's phone, and he responds back with: "Who is this?"

It does not seem that he thought the message was from Faith ether. The lack of sexual assault suggest a staged crime scene. So there is no telling where the DNA came from.

 

[Webthrush]

So "b" gets a message from Faith's phone, and he responds back with: "Who is this?"

It does not seem that he thought the message was from Faith ether. The lack of sexual assault suggest a staged crime scene. So there is no telling where the DNA came from.

No, for whatever reason, “b” received Faith’s message later on the day of her death, after he’d already learned of the crime, so his first thought was that the message couldn’t be from Faith since she was deceased (not realizing the message had been sent much earlier).
I don’t think the scene was staged (jmo), but was an active sexual assault that didn’t include penetration (probably because of Faith’s fighting back).
[I haven’t watched the show yet, but was any indication given of WHEN police learned of Ty and Alex? — I don’t recall their names in any of the documents released at the 2-year-mark, but how could they have been missed for that long!?]

 

[Ibiz]

No, for whatever reason, “b” received Faith’s message later on the day of her death, after he’d already learned of the crime, so his first thought was that the message couldn’t be from Faith since she was deceased (not realizing the message had been sent much earlier).
I don’t think the scene was staged (jmo), but was an active sexual assault that didn’t include penetration (probably because of Faith’s fighting back).
[I haven’t watched the show yet, but was any indication given of WHEN police learned of Ty and Alex? — I don’t recall their names in any of the documents released at the 2-year-mark, but how could they have been missed for that long!?]

With that point we would have to assume she was murded by a stranger.

 

[CADwrest]

I watched it over the course of a few hours last night. I’d like to see it again, but here are my takeaways. All MOO, of course.

The Good

Bringing forward some of Faith’s other boyfriends, and actually getting an interview with one of them. He came out and said he’d been swabbed, so despite how much sense he makes as a suspect (obsession, stalking, was ignored by Faith the night of the crime, etc.), we have to assume he didn’t personally commit the crime. Also, a new set of initials for us to throw around: TM.

Separately, being able to read the text messages between Faith and TM. One thing stood out to me about that: The phrase in the text message (paraphrase) “I’ve been in my feelings.” I can’t place it right now, but I swear I’ve seen or heard that somewhere before in connection to this case. I think maybe it was somewhere on Faith’s Twitter feed. It stood out to me because it’s an odd turn of phrase that I hadn’t heard before.

The bottle testing. It never really occurred to me to doubt that the Bacardi bottle was the murder weapon, but I liked that they didn’t assume that and put it to the test.

The interview with Marisol. It was good to hear a little more background from her about that morning, and to hear her shed more light on what was going on during the 9-11 call. She outright said that they never touched Faith, which has been a question people have had- whether or not they were following the dispatcher’s instructions.

The autopsy review, as Simplestarz86 mentioned above. It was informative to hear an expert go over that. It really sounds like she was not raped, though I don’t think her being sexually assaulted is up for debate (unfortunately, the investigators on this show made a very serious mistake here, which I’ll detail below).

And, basically, any additional attention given to this case.

The Bad

The handwriting expert. I’m sorry, but I can’t see how a five word sample can give you a definitive idea of the gender of the writer.

The fruitless quest to find and question ETJ. If they reached out and he didn’t respond, he’s not gonna talk. That’s obvious. The whole thing felt like filler (especially them actually showing how they went to the wrong house) and an attempt to add drama. Were they hoping he’d chase them, like he did the CWD crew?

The lack of any discussion at all about the Paragon phenotype image. This is especially problematic considering they wonder if the problem is that the CHPD has “too much” DNA (since DNA from ETJ, TM, and KR would likely be found in the bedroom). How about mentioning that there is DNA from an unknown party- on Faith, the murder weapon, and the note and the pen? They convey this information in a sort of oblique way by pointing out that 800 suspects had been cleared via swab, but if I didn’t already know this, I’d wouldn’t have picked it up from this show.

The “text interview” with JM’s roommate, especially how it was presented as “getting KR’s side of the story.” There’s a shirt that has a red spot. CHPD doesn’t think it has anything to do with the crime. Got it. Let’s not make it nefarious.

The Ugly

Arlo West, professionally speaking. We need to ignore this guy and everything he says. It was bad enough that they even featured that pocket dial voicemail at all. But did you catch the sheer disingenuousness of what he did? It looks like he’s given up on the saving throw of the timestamp of the call being wrong, so he excised all the problematic parts of the transcript and made it all about a fight between Faith and KR at the Thrill. All the stuff that doesn’t fit? “Throw it in the river!” “My hands are on fire!” “Let me go!” “I think she’s dying.” “Get the duct tape and tie up Faith.” All gone. Yet we get this gem from him: “If I don’t hear it, it doesn’t go in there.” Sure thing, Arlo. Whatever you say.

Investigation Discovery’s critical research failure. During the interview with the forensic pathologist, they note the autopsy doesn’t say semen was found in Faith. They surmise that, therefore, there wasn’t any inside her. Fair enough. But they miss that it was collected at the crime scene: This is such a well-established fact of the case that its oversight is hard to forgive. Over-looking this allows them to view Faith’s condition (naked from the waist down, with the shirt pulled over her head) as simple staging, when clearly it was relevant to the crime. It also allows them to focus hard on KR, who ends up as the primary suspect of the show.

The heart-breaking final interview with Connie and Roland. That was hard to watch. They had to have had such high hopes for these guys coming in and giving so much attention to their daughter’s murder, and at the end, they sit across from them, and name KR? They just sat there, stone-faced. Connie eventually reiterates her faith in the CHPD solving the case (ouch!). Roland, upon hearing KR is their prime suspect and asked for a reply, says “I’d like KR to know I love her. I’m sorry she’s going through this.” (Though he does think Faith would be more out-spoken in trying to solve KR’s murder). A couple of polite “thank yous” and “goodbyes”. It’s possible I’m misreading it, but I saw two people who thought their time had been completely wasted.

 

[chinacat67]

I watched it over the course of a few hours last night. I’d like to see it again, but here are my takeaways. All MOO, of course.

The Good

Bringing forward some of Faith’s other boyfriends, and actually getting an interview with one of them. He came out and said he’d been swabbed, so despite how much sense he makes as a suspect (obsession, stalking, was ignored by Faith the night of the crime, etc.), we have to assume he didn’t personally commit the crime. Also, a new set of initials for us to throw around: TM.

Separately, being able to read the text messages between Faith and TM. One thing stood out to me about that: The phrase in the text message (paraphrase) “I’ve been in my feelings.” I can’t place it right now, but I swear I’ve seen or heard that somewhere before in connection to this case. I think maybe it was somewhere on Faith’s Twitter feed. It stood out to me because it’s an odd turn of phrase that I hadn’t heard before.

RSBM.

My kids, in their early 20s, have been saying that for several years now. It's a popular millennial slang phrase. So there's really nothing to that.

Thanks so much for the great summary... looking forward to watching....

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[J.M. Bee]

Wow. These ID guys have done some good work, though I have only just started watching the program. Their analysis of the timeline, the thump, the accessing of Faith's Facebook account and the text to BE is brilliant and opens up a new window onto this crime, IMO. They are onto something here.

 

[Webthrush]

I more-or-less concur with CADwrest… the biggest lapse of Breaking Homicide was in not even mentioning, let alone dealing with, the previously-generated DNA phenotype of the perp. An odd omission, unless police no longer give it credence?
There were some items I thought the episode put too much weight on, and a few things I’m not convinced were quite accurate, and I don’t agree with some of the extrapolated conclusions, but overall certainly a worthwhile watch (with much that could be argued over). The most interesting information (for me) concerned the newly-named boyfriend and the odd text he supposedly received (never before revealed) from Faith the morning of her death, but which again may mean next-to-nothing. The episode lends some indication of just how much we STILL don't know about this case!

 

[CADwrest]

Wow. These ID guys have done some good work, though I have only just started watching the program. Their analysis of the timeline, the thump, the accessing of Faith's Facebook account and the text to BE is brilliant and opens up a new window onto this crime, IMO. They are onto something here.

BBM

I thought about addressing their timeline, but my post was already pretty long as it was.

Their timeline was different from what we've heard before. I believe they had Faith and KR arriving at the apartment at 2:30, thumps at 2:40, Faith's Facebook page accessed at 3:30, Faith's text to TM at 3:50, and KR leaving after 4AM (this is from memory, so it might not be completely right). What I've heard previously was them leaving Thrill at 2:30, arriving sometime before 3, the time of the thumps not specifically known but probably around 3, the FB page access also at about 3, then all the calls between KR and BE (and the texts from Faith to him) between 3:40 and 3:50, and KR leaving at (oddly precise) 4:27AM.

Also, I did find the instance in Faith's Twitter where she used that exact phrase ("Ahhhhh I'm all in my feelings! Noooooo!" - Dec 3, 2011), so we do know it was a phrase she used, but apparently it's not something unique to her (thanks chinacat67).

I also find the timing of Faith's text to TM interesting: I believe she texted BE at 3:43 AM and then wrote that long text to TM at 3:50 AM. I wonder if there's some connection there. As in, she's hearing KR freaking out about not being able to get up with BE, sends a text on her behalf, and then reflects a little about her own love interest, and sends him a lovey/dovey text to let him know she appreciates him?

 

[J.M. Bee]

The ID program is excellent, IMO, and the two investigators have made a number of important contributions to our understanding of this case. There still remain a number of unanswered questions, of course, but I do think the program advances things in a particular direction and changes the angle from which one should view the crime.

As for some of the criticism of the show above, I think some of this is driven by the fact that the investigators are pointing towards KR, something certain people here have been arguing against for a time. Ultimately, however, one has to follow where the evidence leads and where the best reasoning leads.

Some of the more important conclusions reached by the ID investigators include:
1. Faith was not raped; there was no damage to her vagina and no semen inside of her
2. the loud "bump" heard by the neighbor at 2:40am was likely the sound of the crime taking place
3. that the bottle was the murder weapon suggests a spontaneous act of anger, not forethought, and not planning
4. the activity on Faith's Facebook account and phone after 2:40am might not have been Faith
5. that whoever committed this crime took the time to clean up thoroughly and knew they had the time to clean up thoroughly; this latter point is very important
6. the writer of the note was likely female
7. there are a number of odd or suspicious things about Karena's responses on the 911 call

When I have a bit more time and energy, I would like to try to respond to some of the criticisms of these conclusions and of the show. At the moment, though, I am just happy to have some renewed faith --- no pun intended --- that this crime is going to be solved. Cheers, all.

 

[CADwrest]

Is that really where evidence and reason lead us, though?

The show certainly led us there. But it’s their show. There was no one to challenge their conclusions. They had full control over the content, and could decide what they showed, and more importantly, did not show.

For whatever reason, a deliberate choice was made to not address the unknown male DNA at the crime scene. That particular bit of evidence has always been a monkey wrench in the KR, ETJ, and now TM theories.

They chose KR as their primary suspect. Fine. A lot of people do. If they brought their same theory onto this site, people would ask “How do you square the DNA evidence with that?” and “I see you needed to make some changes to the timeline for your theory to work. Do you have a source for those?”

My guess is that they didn’t want those problems limiting where they could go with the show. It’s great drama for them to stand around the table and shout out suspects’ names and the evidence pointing to them. It’s less dramatic to say, after each one “But the DNA clears him/her,” and to end the show saying “Well, I guess it’s this mystery guy we know nothing about.”

The show was worthwhile in that it added to the knowledge of the case, and brought attention to it. The conclusion they drew is one that’s been dissected at length on these threads and has fatal problems. They didn’t even try to address them; they just pretended they didn’t exist.