NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #3

[Webthrush]

Re: Karena lack of interviews

I think folks need to realize an attorney almost certainly advised her against doing public interviews (which can too easily be taken-out-of-context or otherwise be mis-interpreted, to her detriment).
Moreover LE may also have requested that she not do interviews because they likely have collected information from her that they don’t want disclosed publicly and don’t want her talking about (or being asked about); and she has already had many, many interviews with LE… the press will only ask her the same questions over-and-over-and-over again ad nauseam; there is simply little good reason to subject herself to that (as much as our curiosity might desire it).

 

[fluffypaste]

People want to attack her for not doing interviews? If she did, people would just call her a famewhore and say she wants attention. People can't admit they were wrong about her so they'll look for anything to use against her. Just like Amanda Knox.

There are so many parallels between this case and the Amanda Knox case. Mainly, a woman getting most of the blame even though there is overwhelming physical evidence pointing towards a male perpetrator. I really hope Karena is doing okay, wherever she is. Although I don't see how she possibly could be doing okay after all she's been put through.

 

[CADwrest]

I really hope Karena is doing okay, wherever she is. Although I don't see how she possibly could be doing okay after all she's been put through.

I really hope she's just ignoring all this and going about her life. She probably decided (or was advised) a long time ago that she needed to separate herself from the fervor around this case if she wanted to stay sane.
I'm sure it hasn't been easy. In that brief 20/20 clip of her, she seemed very conflicted, like she wanted to talk, but then thought better of it and just went back inside the house.
I do hope at some point, hopefully after the trial, she sits down with someone and tells her side of things.

 

[Sticks&bugs]

Very exciting to finally see an arrest and some justice for Faith!
I've had a strange theory for years that I was mocked relentlessly for by a friend that believed ETJ and KR were responsible..
My mind always went to the note, I for some reason always seemed to read it as "I'm not stupid , (I'm) jealous". I always wondered if maybe there was someone that was infatuated with KR (or maybe even Faith and wound up with a mistaken identity scenario - mostly dark apartment) that thought maybe more was going on between the two than just friendship and disliked that. IM NOT implying that they were anything more than friends! But I had an abusive ex that would frequently throw out the " I'm a jealous man and I'll f* up anyone that looks at you".

 

[fluffypaste]

Very exciting to finally see an arrest and some justice for Faith!
I've had a strange theory for years that I was mocked relentlessly for by a friend that believed ETJ and KR were responsible..
My mind always went to the note, I for some reason always seemed to read it as "I'm not stupid *****, (I'm) jealous". I always wondered if maybe there was someone that was infatuated with KR (or maybe even Faith and wound up with a mistaken identity scenario - mostly dark apartment) that thought maybe more was going on between the two than just friendship and disliked that. IM NOT implying that they were anything more than friends! But I had an abusive ex that would frequently throw out the " I'm a jealous man and I'll f* up anyone that looks at you".

The notion of a person going into the apartment with plans to harm Karena, but instead finding Faith Hedgepeth is actually something that I'd always thought was a possibility. Faith and Karena look similar enough that they could be mistaken for each other in the heat of the moment.

Karena has noticeably darker skin, but an attacker in an impassioned state might not recognize that until it is too late to abort.

I no longer believe that's what happened, because I no longer believe that this murder was premeditated or targeted against a specific individual. It seems far more likely, at this point, that the killer was just testing different doors until he found one that was unlocked. But I'm certain that police strongly considered the possibility of a mistaken identity killing during the investigation.

 

[Webthrush]

The notion of a person going into the apartment with plans to harm Karena, but instead finding Faith Hedgepeth is actually something that I'd always thought was a possibility. Faith and Karena look similar enough that they could be mistaken for each other in the heat of the moment.

I no longer believe that's what happened, because I no longer believe that this murder was premeditated or targeted against a specific individual. It seems far more likely, at this point, that the killer was just testing different doors until he found one that was unlocked. But I'm certain that police strongly considered the possibility of a mistaken identity killing during the investigation.

One small intriguing bit from the original investigation is that Karena told police that the rum bottle was normally kept in the kitchen, yet had moved into the bedroom — this has always implied to me (though purely speculative) the possibility that Faith knew her attacker (either because she had encountered him at the Thrill that night, or from somewhere else, or because he was an acquaintance of KR) and was perhaps even socializing/drinking with him/them in the bedroom prior to the attack (the autopsy found a small amount of alcohol in Faith, though that may have come from the Thrill). In fact, if he/they were truly a complete stranger/intruder I don’t know why she wouldn’t scream/yell immediately upon encountering him, let alone once the assault began. So I think Faith (and KR) did know the individual(s) even if only slightly, and quite possibly let him inside after a knock on the door. No doubt KR has already told LE by now that she either did or did not know of Olivares from some sort of contact.

different topic altogether: Re: DNA
people have in the past sent me concocted scenarios of someone planting DNA of an innocent person at the crime scene -- I think these scenarios wholly unlikely for a variety of reasons, but one scenario that does concern me (though still extremely unlikely) would be a mixup of DNA samples at the forensic lab causing a false "match" to Olivares -- I worked at clinical genetic labs (with probably far tighter protocols than forensic labs have), and am aware of rare mixups that occurred out of 100s of 1000s of samples processed. It's hugely unlikely, but again, a skilled defense lawyer can plant seeds of doubt in a jury member if it were to turn out that LE has no other evidence whatsoever against Olivares. And again this odd, prolonged delay in news/info makes me wonder if there could be any current issue with the DNA results.

 

[fluffypaste]

One small intriguing bit from the original investigation is that Karena told police that the rum bottle was normally kept in the kitchen, yet had moved into the bedroom — this has always implied to me (though purely speculative) the possibility that Faith knew her attacker (either because she had encountered him at the Thrill that night, or from somewhere else, or because he was an acquaintance of KR) and was perhaps even socializing/drinking with him/them in the bedroom prior to the attack (the autopsy found a small amount of alcohol in Faith, though that may have come from the Thrill). In fact, if he/they were truly a complete stranger/intruder I don’t know why she wouldn’t scream/yell immediately upon encountering him, let alone once the assault began. So I think Faith (and KR) did know the individual(s) even if only slightly, and quite possibly let him inside after a knock on the door. No doubt KR has already told LE by now that she either did or did not know of Olivares from some sort of contact.

different topic altogether: Re: DNA
people have in the past sent me concocted scenarios of someone planting DNA of an innocent person at the crime scene -- I think these scenarios wholly unlikely for a variety of reasons, but one scenario that does concern me (though still extremely unlikely) would be a mixup of DNA samples at the forensic lab causing a false "match" to Olivares -- I worked at clinical genetic labs (with probably far tighter protocols than forensic labs have), and am aware of rare mixups that occurred out of 100s of 1000s of samples processed. It's hugely unlikely, but again, a skilled defense lawyer can plant seeds of doubt in a jury member if it were to turn out that LE has no other evidence whatsoever against Olivares. And again this odd, prolonged delay in news/info makes me wonder if there could be any current issue with the DNA results.

When you say people have sent you scenarios of someone planting DNA at a crime scene, are you referring specifically to the Faith Hedgepeth case or others as well?

 

[Webthrush]

When you say people have sent you scenarios of someone planting DNA at a crime scene, are you referring specifically to the Faith Hedgepeth case or others as well?

yes referring specifically to Faith's case -- BUT again, my point is NOT that I think such scenarios plausible, but simply that if others imagine such possibilities then a defense attorney may be able to fashion such a theory to plant doubt in a juror (depending what OTHER evidence is brought forth).

 

[Curious_in_NC]

yes referring specifically to Faith's case -- BUT again, my point is NOT that I think such scenarios plausible, but simply that if others imagine such possibilities then a defense attorney may be able to fashion such a theory to plant doubt in a juror (depending what OTHER evidence is brought forth).

Great points. To be honest I don't think it would take a lot of effort for the defense to plant doubts in the jury's minds, especially if the state crime lab were involved. They were the source of huge controversy only a couple of years before Faith's murder in 2012. Fortunately, Duane Deaver, a former SBI employee, was fired in 2011 following many questionable blood stain analyses. There's reason to believe that, since then, things have been vastly improved. But the distrust of the lab in public opinion probably still persists within the state. Would a judge allow this to be brought up in a trial? Who knows.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/p...ns-blogs/under-the-dome/article103292067.html

North Carolina’s crime lab scandal remains unaddressed

 

[CADwrest]

One small intriguing bit from the original investigation is that Karena told police that the rum bottle was normally kept in the kitchen, yet had moved into the bedroom — this has always implied to me (though purely speculative) the possibility that Faith knew her attacker (either because she had encountered him at the Thrill that night, or from somewhere else, or because he was an acquaintance of KR) and was perhaps even socializing/drinking with him/them in the bedroom prior to the attack (the autopsy found a small amount of alcohol in Faith, though that may have come from the Thrill). In fact, if he/they were truly a complete stranger/intruder I don’t know why she wouldn’t scream/yell immediately upon encountering him, let alone once the assault began. So I think Faith (and KR) did know the individual(s) even if only slightly, and quite possibly let him inside after a knock on the door. No doubt KR has already told LE by now that she either did or did not know of Olivares from some sort of contact. <Snip>

As to the bottle being in the bedroom: I eventually landed on burglary-gone-wrong as a my preferred theory, so I always thought the bottles (plural; there was a Reisling bottle too) ended up in the bedroom because he initially planned on stealing them. Him being underage at the time increases the chance of that, as getting alcohol can be kind of a hassle at that age; we forget the lengths late teens/early 20s kids have to go through to buy it. It's not valuable, but it's an easy grab, and he can at least drink it later. But then things went bad and he just left them there, thinking having them would tie him to the apartment.
(I've had it suggested to me that the bottles were empty, but I've never seen that confirmed anywhere. The evidence pictures show them empty, but I think LE would drain them for long term storage. Obviously, if they were empty, he wouldn't have a reason to steal them... but then they wouldn't be useful for entertaining anyone either.)

 

[Ibiz]

As to the bottle being in the bedroom: I eventually landed on burglary-gone-wrong as a my preferred theory, so I always thought the bottles (plural; there was a Reisling bottle too) ended up in the bedroom because he initially planned on stealing them. Him being underage at the time increases the chance of that, as getting alcohol can be kind of a hassle at that age; we forget the lengths late teens/early 20s kids have to go through to buy it. It's not valuable, but it's an easy grab, and he can at least drink it later. But then things went bad and he just left them there, thinking having them would tie him to the apartment.
(I've had it suggested to me that the bottles were empty, but I've never seen that confirmed anywhere. The evidence pictures show them empty, but I think LE would drain them for long term storage. Obviously, if they were empty, he wouldn't have a reason to steal them... but then they wouldn't be useful for entertaining anyone either.)

I don't know, I tend to think if there was something in them, then they would have been photographed that way..

 

[Simplestarz86]

I don't know, I tend to think if there was something in them, then they would have been photographed that way..

I agree, the evidence would be captured and logged the way the evidence was found.

 

[Simplestarz86]

As to the bottle being in the bedroom: I eventually landed on burglary-gone-wrong as a my preferred theory, so I always thought the bottles (plural; there was a Reisling bottle too) ended up in the bedroom because he initially planned on stealing them. Him being underage at the time increases the chance of that, as getting alcohol can be kind of a hassle at that age; we forget the lengths late teens/early 20s kids have to go through to buy it. It's not valuable, but it's an easy grab, and he can at least drink it later. But then things went bad and he just left them there, thinking having them would tie him to the apartment.
(I've had it suggested to me that the bottles were empty, but I've never seen that confirmed anywhere. The evidence pictures show them empty, but I think LE would drain them for long term storage. Obviously, if they were empty, he wouldn't have a reason to steal them... but then they wouldn't be useful for entertaining anyone either.)

BBM When do you think he decided to take a chance of burglarizing an apartment on a second level? Why so risky? Do you think he was with someone? I wonder if Miguel had seen Faith and friends at any of the spanish clubs? That is if Faith and her friends frequented any of the spanish clubs, or hang out at La Hacienda Mexican restaurants. It’s a hop and a skip to the apartment complex formerly known as Hawthorne at the View. All are my own thoughts and opinions.

 

[Webthrush]

So how long can you hold someone in jail without a probable cause or arraignment hearing? Isn't there a strict limit on that? (...or is it different for murder cases?)

 

[CADwrest]

BBM When do you think he decided to take a chance of burglarizing an apartment on a second level? Why so risky? Do you think he was with someone? I wonder if Miguel had seen Faith and friends at any of the spanish clubs? That is if Faith and her friends frequented any of the spanish clubs, or hang out at La Hacienda Mexican restaurants. It’s a hop and a skip to the apartment complex formerly known as Hawthorne at the View. All are my own thoughts and opinions.

BBM
My personal theory is that he was in the vicinity when Karena left, and that she made enough noise as she was leaving that she drew his attention. It was 4:30 AM, so everything else would have been relatively quiet otherwise, so a car pulling up, headlights on, someone closing a door and hurrying down the stairs, maybe some back and forth conversation in slightly raised voices, etc. would have been noticeable.

 

[Moonbeam456]

So how long can you hold someone in jail without a probable cause or arraignment hearing? Isn't there a strict limit on that? (...or is it different for murder cases?)

It varies from state to state but there are limits, they can't just hold someone for an indefinite amount of time without taking action. His probable cause hearing was supposed to be on 10/7 and we know that didn't happen, I feel like something has to happen soon, that was almost a month ago...

 

[Curious_in_NC]

I would guess the Durham DA DeBerry is proceeding very cautiously. History has not been kind to her predecessors involved in high profile cases over the last two decades. Freda Black died three years ago from complications of alcoholism, possibly exacerbated by her intense time in the spotlight during the first Michael Peterson trial. Gaspo wrote a kind tribute about her (https://www.heraldsun.com/opinion/article215844340.html). Mike Nifong deservedly lost his job and law license after the Duke lacrosse rape debacle. He was followed by Tracy Cline, who also lost her law license for more complicated reasons. She later got it back.

So, the consequences of getting it wrong are probably a concern.

 

[Webthrush]

I would guess the Durham DA DeBerry is proceeding very cautiously. History has not been kind to her predecessors involved in high profile cases over the last two decades. Freda Black died three years ago from complications of alcoholism, possibly exacerbated by her intense time in the spotlight during the first Michael Peterson trial. Gaspo wrote a kind tribute about her (https://www.heraldsun.com/opinion/article215844340.html). Mike Nifong deservedly lost his job and law license after the Duke lacrosse rape debacle. He was followed by Tracy Cline, who also lost her law license for more complicated reasons. She later got it back.

So, the consequences of getting it wrong are probably a concern.

Just my opinion (and gut hunch) but I don’t think it’s a matter of caution, but rather some sort of other problem… calling off a hearing, with no re-scheduling and no news reporting for this long just seems weird, especially after all the ballyhooing and self-congratulation at the original (not terribly cautious) news conference.

As to my original question, I’ve googled around a bit and am still unclear, but have read that for serious crimes a figure of 170 days or more (almost 6 months!) may apply as the time requirement for certain court action — am still not clear though if that’s the time by which the trial must be scheduled, or can the simple arraignment hearing take that long to transpire, while the defendant remains in jail (seems unlikely?)?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Hi folks. Forgive me, I am just catching up on this case. I had heard about it years ago but then stopped following. I don't for a minute believe it was random and just a case of someone going door to door and testing out locks. That just would be such an insanely unlikely thing that he'd just happened to be doing that on the very night Karena left the door open and in the few hours Karena was gone. And not getting caught or no one hearing their doorknob being turned in the whole complex (some people do wake up at 4:30 or 5 in the morning for work), only adds more unlikeliness to the scenario.

I originally thought this was Karena's ex who left the note to say "I'm not stupid, (I know it's because of you that Karena filed the restraining order). (You're) jealous (of Karena's relationship with me)."

With this new suspect, I don't know what to think, but I just hope that there hasn't been a mistake with the DNA samples as people above are talking about, for Faith's sake and for this person's.

I agree with the reasons stated about Karena's silence. This was undoubtedly an incredibly traumatizing event for her. Her silence is likely a combination of police/lawyers advising her, possibly because she knows more than has been revealed to the public and her focusing on her mental health and therapist advising her not to relive her trauma as that will only worsen her prognosis. I also haven't discounted the possibility that IF this was a case of mistaken identity, Karena's silence may be important to her safety. Does anyone know if she's changed her name?

 

[raiders444]

yes referring specifically to Faith's case -- BUT again, my point is NOT that I think such scenarios plausible, but simply that if others imagine such possibilities then a defense attorney may be able to fashion such a theory to plant doubt in a juror (depending what OTHER evidence is brought forth).

Let's be honest, it doesn't take much to plant doubt in a juror's mind. Casey Anthony was found not guilty despite having matching duct tape and various google searches on her computer indicating she planned to harm her child. I feel like many jurors just want the whole process to be done with and go home, rather than deliberate on questionable parts of a case.
Google Search For “Foolproof Suffocation” Found On Casey Anthony’s Computer From The Day Her Daughter Disappeared – TechCrunch