GUILTY NC - Jason Corbett, 39, murdered in his Wallburg home, 2 Aug 2015 #10

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Frizby said:
I would agree with some of your post and I truly hope that SM does tell the truth to her other children. They deserve to know the truth however difficult it will for them to deal with it. After all they had no hand, act or part in the horrible event if that night. I don't agree however that they are as decent as you think, no decent person would do what they did after the event.

Can I just ask you, how do you feel about what TM & MM said about the death of JC's first wife? Not just making a statement of such but also going on National TV and saying it.
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My thoughts were simply that TM and SM had organized and structured a decent life for their family placing pieces of the puzzle together. Dedicated to the cause with their eye on the prize while simultaneously juggling keeping a ball in the air...MM. I would assume the Martens were respected by their neighbors/peers/co-workers/friends/siblings/children....until, the big until...approx 2am as my post mentioned. Then all bets were lost. Everything changed. Those 3 had to have thrown around a million thoughts quickly in the wee hours of the morning. They went 100% into self preservation mode. Lying and creating at all cost. I think SM/TM were decent people when they laid their heads on their pillows to go to sleep. When they woke is when they started making hasty poor everlasting decisions.
 
Frizby said:
Personally I don't think so, I think that it was all MM, or the vast majority of it was anyway. We might have to wait till the transcripts of the trial to come out to dissect it further because all we have really is what he said on that ABC program. Has there been any reporting of what his testimony on the stand said in detail? He also said on that program that he hit him "hard" in the bathroom but the blood spatter expert testified that there was no evidence of hits in the bathroom only blood transfer. Wondering did he say this on the stand?
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Makes me wonder if JC was ever in the bathroom. Or did they take the blood covered bat into the bathroom after JC was dead and hit the wall to tie in with the story that he was dragging MM in there and daddy had to save her.
 
DaleTray said:
My thoughts were simply that TM and SM had organized and structured a decent life for their family placing pieces of the puzzle together. Dedicated to the cause with their eye on the prize while simultaneously juggling keeping a ball in the air...MM. I would assume the Martins were respected by their neighbors/peers/co-workers/friends/siblings/children....until, the big until...approx 2am as my post mentioned. Then all bets were lost. Everything changed. Those 3 had to have thrown around a million thoughts quickly in the wee hours of the morning. They went 100% into self preservation mode. Lying and creating at all cost. I think SM/TM were decent people when they laid their heads on their pillows to go to sleep. When they woke is when they started making hasty poor everlasting decisions.
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I can't reason with your sentiment of decency knowing what they did after the fact however I do understand your point as I did in your other post. And yes, in their own circle of friends, family, neighbours, they would have been considered decent and for all intensive purposes they were, in that circle. They were presented with a situation and as you say self preservation took over which is what I have said before in other posts. I do not believe for one second that they got in the car that day to end up with blood on their hands. It is a tragic situation that their whole family has been torn apart by the actions of one, it is an even more tragic situation that another family has been torn apart by the actions of all three. Decent people do not do what they did.

May I just ask you again, how do you feel about what TM & MM said about the death of JC's first wife? Not just making a statement of such (which I believe only TM did) but also going on National TV and both saying it.
 
I watched the youngest son speak so emotionally, sitting next to his Uncle on that 20-20 show. He was frustrated and in pain.

I'll confess...I felt nothing for him. The M family has depleted any residual empathy I might have had for any of them with their treatment of the late Mr. FItzP, and the continuing harassment of his family. Add to this the snobbish dismissal of Mr FitzP as if he were some lesser species than the fabulous Marten family.

Every member of the M family has been complicit in this campaign of lies and wickedness. They participate online and in videos and in that outrageous scam of aTV show, They lie like grifters trying to raise money for these murderers by saying they are "gutted" financially ...when they WILL have pensions and social security...and they have expensive properties yet to sell.

I would not call anyone who participates in schemes like this..fine...or...moral...or well brought up. There's a moral compass missing in this family. And this did not start with the murder of JC. No one becomes so devoid of decency overnight.
 
Game over! MM and her dad just need to do the right thing and serve the time. It is going to bite them much bigger in the a$$ if they continue with I am innocent, JMO. The pictures paint the picture to me of Jason who was ambushed for someone else's personal gain. I am happy the kids are safe in Ireland.
 
DaleTray said:
My thoughts were simply that TM and SM had organized and structured a decent life for their family placing pieces of the puzzle together. Dedicated to the cause with their eye on the prize while simultaneously juggling keeping a ball in the air...MM. I would assume the Martens were respected by their neighbors/peers/co-workers/friends/siblings/children....until, the big until...approx 2am as my post mentioned. Then all bets were lost. Everything changed. Those 3 had to have thrown around a million thoughts quickly in the wee hours of the morning. They went 100% into self preservation mode. Lying and creating at all cost. I think SM/TM were decent people when they laid their heads on their pillows to go to sleep. When they woke is when they started making hasty poor everlasting decisions.
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Decent people do not sneer at others nor rush to judgements about their standards of education , nor do they make untrue allegations about recently deceased persons, confident that if their lies are not believed or disproven by facts, AutopsyMC. that they will at least gain the publicity they so crave and the funds they claim they desperately need.

Decent people do NOT hate their sons-in-law, or anybody at all, in fact.
Decent people do not accept hospitality or holidays from people they hate.
Decent people do not send a disturbed drug-addicted daughter to a strange country 2 weeks after having been discharged from a psychiatric hospital, and yes, they had taken over her care at that point, as per KeithMcGinn's book..

Theres 2 years of posts here for those of you who joined recently and want to know just how these 'decent people' have conducted themselves throughout the two years.
 
Let's not forget the Greed Grab, after Shipwash ruled against them. TM, one of his sons, and ME all are federal employees sworn to uphold our laws. What does this say about their moral character?

They may have been "accepted" in the same way MM is...by anyone who hasn't crossed them, or had something they covet, or by people that they consider worthy of M family respect.

Look how they treated KM, grubbing rent money out of him, while he worked to support their mentally ill daughter. He was beneath their compassion, just like the FitzP family. I can only imagine how they treated the guy at the gas station, the waitress in the restaurant...no, these behaviors were not borne of anxiety from this tragedy.

This is how ALL of them have been for a long time.
 
stmarysmead said:
Let's not forget the Greed Grab, after Shipwash ruled against them. TM, one of his sons, and ME all are federal employees sworn to uphold our laws. What does this say about their moral character?

They may have been "accepted" in the same way MM is...by anyone who hasn't crossed them, or had something they covet, or by people that they consider worthy of M family respect.

Look how they treated KM, grubbing rent money out of him, while he worked to support their mentally ill daughter. He was beneath their compassion, just like the FitzP family. I can only imagine how they treated the guy at the gas station, the waitress in the restaurant...no, these behaviors were not borne of anxiety from this tragedy.

This is how ALL of them have been for a long time.
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Well said, even in terms that my hard head can clearly relate to :) Please never think I like the Martens. All indicators have been I would clearly change course to avoid associating w them.
 
Agree that their self-preservation mode kicked in that night. Sure that TM, SM, and MM were and are still focused on making sure everyone around them had/have the illusion of them being decent, respectable, and righteous. Still struggling to understand how decent people can turn into monsters in a blink of eye. Is there a difference in “being righteous” and “I feel righteous”? May be as simple as their definitions of being and feeling decent and righteous are not my definitions? Get cold chills to think that I could go to sleep tonight and wake up a murderer, liar, cheater, and thief. I pray that I never go to sleep and wake up as someone I hate. Sometimes, I have a tendency to mistakenly attribute the same qualities I value to others. Struggling to find a single sign that TM, SM, and MM have or ever had the capacity to actually fully experience empathy for others (not just themselves), remorse, and every other quality that truly makes us human. TM, SM, and MM lost their humanity that night in my heart and mind. Just my opinion, not fact. To be honest, we only have their word they went to bed that night. Agree self-preservation is the key word. Self-preservation leaves no room for humanity. The mask slipped. But in my small mind, the horrific truth was always there lurking behind their masks.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/fbi-agent-daughter-charged-murder-husband-part-49168728
 
In 2001, we saw NYC firemen and policeman enter the burning collapsing towers of the WTC, risking their own lives in the hope of saving a few others. Self preservation did not deplete their humanity or their compassion.

When we consider what happened in that bedroom that night, this is not a case where MM or TM shot a gun, and JC died. This was a long, drawn out, heinous death. And the killers had to see every wince, every cringe of intense pain. They saw blood gushing, heard the sounds of cracking skull bone over and over and over.

Have you ever thought how PERSONAL this killing was? It was like a dance, slow motion, but they could not avoid watching what the bat and brick did to him.

This is not a shot, or the thrust of a blade and "OMG what have I done!

Maybe I am naive but I don't believe most humans are capable of this type of murder, where his eyes must have met theirs at some point, and his pain was right in front if them...his dying was in front of them...tissue flying up on her pajamas.

The coverup, likewise, has intended to use orphaned children as their shields for this crime. They have tried to use a dying man, the grandfather of those children.

Now suppose the Corbetts had believed this awful lie! Suppose the lie had driven a wedge between the families. Then the children would have lost more people they loved! Thank God, the love and the bond between these families is unbreakable! But the M family did not know that and were willing to put the happiness of those children at risk for their own purposes.
 
stmarysmead said:
In 2001, we saw NYC firemen and policeman enter the burning collapsing towers of the WTC, risking their own lives in the hope of saving a few others. Self preservation did not deplete their humanity or their compassion.

When we consider what happened in that bedroom that night, this is not a case where MM or TM shot a gun, and JC died. This was a long, drawn out, heinous death. And the killers had to see every wince, every cringe of intense pain. They saw blood gushing, heard the sounds of cracking skull bone over and over and over.

Have you ever thought how PERSONAL this killing was? It was like a dance, slow motion, but they could not avoid watching what the bat and brick did to him.

This is not a shot, or the thrust of a blade and "OMG what have I done!

Maybe I am naive but I don't believe most humans are capable of this type of murder, where his eyes must have met theirs at some point, and his pain was right in front if them...his dying was in front of them...tissue flying up on her pajamas.

The coverup, likewise, has intended to use orphaned children as their shields for this crime. They have tried to use a dying man, the grandfather of those children.

Now suppose the Corbetts had believed this awful lie! Suppose the lie had driven a wedge between the families. Then the children would have lost more people they loved! Thank God, the love and the bond between these families is unbreakable! But the M family did not know that and were willing to put the happiness of those children at risk for their own purposes.
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Your eloquent words re-shocked me again.. this crime was indeed heinous, atrocious and cruel..

They stand on whatever gets in their way, being supreme believers in their own sense of entitlement to do as they please without fear of consequences.

Their post murder publicity campaigns, synchronised, were equally violent and cruel.
 
kittythehare said:
off topic warning.

Re-reading this, for perspective, everybody is hurting, I think..

https://cityreadsnyc.com/2017/04/01/victor-frankl-on-suffering-and-spiritual-freedom/
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This is a treasure...thank you, dear Kitty.

From your link:

"We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms–
To choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.

And there were always choices to make. Every day, every hour, offered the opportunity to make a decision, a decision which determined whether you would or would not submit to those powers which threatened to rob you of your very self, your inner freedom; which determined whether or not you would become the plaything of circumstance, renouncing freedom and dignity to become molded into the form of the typical inmate."
 
Reading all this with interest... TM's motivation is the most mystifying in all of this. He had shown no sign before of being invested in his daughter's welfare... yet one way or another, he "stepped up" for her that night in the worst possible way. I think the two factors would be his own self-preservation - Molly was doing something that would reflect badly on him unless he took control of the situation; and his seething jealousy of his son in law.
With their history of shuffling Molly and her problems into the background of their lives, it would have been more typical IMO if TM had said to SM that day: "No, I don't care if she's called six times - we're not going there." It was a 4 (?) hour drive - he'd left Molly to handle her problems alone before. If he had left her alone, what would she have done? Maybe killed JC in a mad rage anyway, and with nobody to coach her in a cover story. If TM had not been on the premises, I am convinced that they would have left her to plead diminished responsibility, and her social media campaign would have been less structured and supported. If he didn't need to protect himself, he wouldn't have been so concerned about protecting her.
Someone else commented a few pages back, maybe the reason the Ms came that night was because she was threatening to do something that would implicate them anyway - such as abduct the children. So TM shows up, the big man making a front of protecting/ supporting his daughter, when in reality he's protecting himself. They tell her not to do it and go to bed. She's crazy with desperation and anger, goes into a homicidal rage.
Then Act II of Tom needing to protect himself while pretending to protect Molly; while at the same time, he can finally act out his own jealous rage against this man who stepped into the role of provider and protector in Molly's life.
I don't think for a minute that TM anticipated this or helped arrange it, only because it would have been planned more tidily. But I do think he could have anticipated that M was dangerous that night. Maybe before he went to bed, he said something about how it would be easier if Jason was gone/ dead, then she could just keep the children. I think the idea was there, within all of them, and then he woke up to hear a thump and realized that Molly had acted on it. I don't think he realized how badly she had already injured Jason by the time he got there, but I do think he enthusiastically participated for the sake of making it look like two people "fought back." This was another point where he had the option of acting differently, but I think he wanted to "win" over Jason, get the children for Molly and sully Jason's name.
He was jealous of Jason, he would have resented Jason's success and Jason's position in Molly's life, and his jealousy would have fanned the flames of Molly's jealousy. As a parent, he could have understood Jason's stance about adoption - Molly's parents could have reasoned with her, and told her it didn't matter that she wasn't legally the children's mother. She was (at one point, anyway) a beloved involved stepmother. As a wife, Molly could have told her parents to show respect for her husband or step into the background of their lives. But they encouraged each other's resentment and jealousy.
So TM's jealousy fuelled MM's obsession until between them, they destroyed Jason.
 
Frizby said:
I can't reason with your sentiment of decency knowing what they did after the fact however I do understand your point as I did in your other post. And yes, in their own circle of friends, family, neighbours, they would have been considered decent and for all intensive purposes they were, in that circle. They were presented with a situation and as you say self preservation took over which is what I have said before in other posts. I do not believe for one second that they got in the car that day to end up with blood on their hands. It is a tragic situation that their whole family has been torn apart by the actions of one, it is an even more tragic situation that another family has been torn apart by the actions of all three. Decent people do not do what they did.

May I just ask you again, how do you feel about what TM & MM said about the death of JC's first wife? Not just making a statement of such (which I believe only TM did) but also going on National TV and both saying it.
Click to expand...

Yes, Shipwash ordered them return most of what was taken, including the Honda Accord car, the one JC used, they took that took and she had allowed her father and brother<modsnip> to drive the car. TM knew what he had done to JC, with his own hands, the brutality he and MM had used to murder JC and he still got in the murdered man's car, and drove it? He got in the driver's seat of JC's car and drove it to get coffee or something so ordinary, without a thought. That just always seemed so cold, callous and brutal in itself. These are not good people, they may have put on some semblance of decency, but it was an act I think - decent people don't act like that, they just don't. I'd say if you look deeper in to their lives, you'd find others who aren't wholly surprised by this.

http://www.journalnow.com/news/crim...cle_ccec63c4-d9d2-5f23-8beb-277ef07df3bf.html
 
Grouchymom said:
TM may be able to keep his FBI pension but his Social Security will fly away.
http://askthelawyer.federaltimes.co...rime-conviction-effect-on-retirement-pension/
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Tom Martens, upon retiring from FBI, became a Counterintelligence Officer at Oak Ridge National Laboratory - he was placed on paid administrative leave after the murder, and then retired following indictment Jan 2016. He'd worked for them for 8 years, and employees become vested for pensions after 5 years of employment so he probably has pension from Oak Ridge also.

https://www.ornl.gov/content/employee-benefits
 
courtney2662 said:
Yes, Shipwash ordered them return most of what was taken, including the Honda Accord car, the one JC used, they took that took and she had allowed her father and brother <modsnip> to drive the car. TM knew what he had done to JC, with his own hands, the brutality he and MM had used to murder JC, and he still got in the murdered man's car, and drove it? He got in the driver's seat of JC's car and drove it to get coffee or something so ordinary, without a thought. That just always seemed so cold, callous and brutal in itself. These are not good people, they may have put on some semblance of decency, but it was an act I think - decent people don't act like that, they just don't. I'd say if you look deeper in to their lives, you'd find others who aren't wholly surprised by this.

http://www.journalnow.com/news/crim...cle_ccec63c4-d9d2-5f23-8beb-277ef07df3bf.html
Click to expand...

She was allowed to keep her clothing, two paintings and a nightstand. Was this "the" nightstand that the paving stone was on. These are real strange people. I know when my dad died I didn't want to get into his car again, just cause I missed him so much. How could you sit in the car seat of the man you murdered?
 
Francesca said:
Reading all this with interest... TM's motivation is the most mystifying in all of this. He had shown no sign before of being invested in his daughter's welfare... yet one way or another, he "stepped up" for her that night in the worst possible way. I think the two factors would be his own self-preservation - Molly was doing something that would reflect badly on him unless he took control of the situation; and his seething jealousy of his son in law.
With their history of shuffling Molly and her problems into the background of their lives, it would have been more typical IMO if TM had said to SM that day: "No, I don't care if she's called six times - we're not going there." It was a 4 (?) hour drive - he'd left Molly to handle her problems alone before. If he had left her alone, what would she have done? Maybe killed JC in a mad rage anyway, and with nobody to coach her in a cover story. If TM had not been on the premises, I am convinced that they would have left her to plead diminished responsibility, and her social media campaign would have been less structured and supported. If he didn't need to protect himself, he wouldn't have been so concerned about protecting her.
Someone else commented a few pages back, maybe the reason the Ms came that night was because she was threatening to do something that would implicate them anyway - such as abduct the children. So TM shows up, the big man making a front of protecting/ supporting his daughter, when in reality he's protecting himself. They tell her not to do it and go to bed. She's crazy with desperation and anger, goes into a homicidal rage.
Then Act II of Tom needing to protect himself while pretending to protect Molly; while at the same time, he can finally act out his own jealous rage against this man who stepped into the role of provider and protector in Molly's life.
I don't think for a minute that TM anticipated this or helped arrange it, only because it would have been planned more tidily. But I do think he could have anticipated that M was dangerous that night. Maybe before he went to bed, he said something about how it would be easier if Jason was gone/ dead, then she could just keep the children. I think the idea was there, within all of them, and then he woke up to hear a thump and realized that Molly had acted on it. I don't think he realized how badly she had already injured Jason by the time he got there, but I do think he enthusiastically participated for the sake of making it look like two people "fought back." This was another point where he had the option of acting differently, but I think he wanted to "win" over Jason, get the children for Molly and sully Jason's name.
He was jealous of Jason, he would have resented Jason's success and Jason's position in Molly's life, and his jealousy would have fanned the flames of Molly's jealousy. As a parent, he could have understood Jason's stance about adoption - Molly's parents could have reasoned with her, and told her it didn't matter that she wasn't legally the children's mother. She was (at one point, anyway) a beloved involved stepmother. As a wife, Molly could have told her parents to show respect for her husband or step into the background of their lives. But they encouraged each other's resentment and jealousy.
So TM's jealousy fuelled MM's obsession until between them, they destroyed Jason.
Click to expand...

Terrific post. I am so mystified by TMs involvement. I think you have formulated the best answer yet. There was some motivation that threatened HIM to bring him down there. He could have gone to D.C. the week before and stayed in a hotel where he wasn't in the company of JC. But something had him and SM jump in the car...two long rides and they had to be back to work on Monday.
 
I've been reading back over the last few pages of this thread. I've been really impressed by the insightful comments, particularly #563 #576 and #581 from stmarysmead, #584 from Frizby, #634 from francesca and many more from kittythehare.

One more tuppenceworth.

From KMs book, I think it's fairly obvious that MM was(is) bipolar. It's not a condition that goes away, and reading about the behaviours, I think it's pretty clear that she lied when she said it was a mis-diagnosis. In my experience (by proxy) it's often the case that the 'higher' the manic episode (high energy, racing thoughts, grandiosity, risky behaviour) the 'lower' the subsequent depression (feelings of sadness, loneliness, worthlessness, uselessness, regret for behaviour in the heat of mania.

More than any prison bars, I honestly believe that the punishment that awaits MM when she looks in her mirror will be her own mind rebelling...

Now TM (and possibly SM/ME?), their grandiosity was different IMO, more of a (narcisstic?) underlying personality trait. One that the jury (God bless'em!) recognised implicitly. I honestly believe that in that echo-chamber inside his own head, when he discovered what had happened on 2nd August 2015, he went into survival mode. By survival, I mean survival of his (and by association his family's) status, standing, reputation. Other considerations were simply unimportant trivia - JC's reputation, J&S, MrF, all just details to be moved about like pawns in his over overweening master-plan and facilitated by his legal team. This is what he does after all - "spy against spy stuff". But narcissism generally masks a fragile self-esteem.

So I wonder, what awaits him when he looks in the mirror? In a month. In a year. In ten or fifteen years?
Maybe, out of the corner of his eye, the Truth will come creeping...

All IMO
 
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