NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[Nova]

This is a tough case, but I can vaguely remember seeing a documentary about these murders and thinking at the time that he was innocent. I know they can sway the program to either side, but I came away from the show thinking it was a case of the wrong guy getting convicted. I can't tell you all the evidence or anything like that, been too long since I watched it, but I do remember thinking he didn't do it. Guess it doesn't matter much if he isn't eligible for another 15 years, but what a travesty it would be if he were innocent and someone has gotten away with these murders all these years.

Please don't start flaming me saying how could I believe that. I'm just stating my opinion. I'd have to review the case info again to see if what I remember feeling is accurate.

Miles,

I think I know the doc to which you refer. If that were my first intro to the case I would think MacDonald innocent, too. No need for flames.

The program depended heavily on hearsay regarding claims made by a mentally ill person. And her drug-addict boyfriend.

But it all sounded quite reasonable as presented.

 

[Nova]

It was Freddie Kassab, Colette and Bob's stepfather that first came up with the theory that Colette caught Macdonald molesting their elder daughter, Kimberly. You can read Kassab's theory here

Good luck to 'em proving that theory with psychiatric records from the 60s. I don't believe nowadays many psychiatrists put a lot of faith in Freudian notions of effeminacy and latent homosexuality.

Which doesn't mean, of course, it didn't happen the way Kassab imagined it.

 

[kato]

Collettes brother was on Chris Matthews...Jeffrey MacDonald had a parole hearing today!!!! I thought he was life without parole??? three murders for cry eye!! He says he thinks he abused the eldest daughter and was caught and thus committed the murders...He was turned down by the way...Said he hid behind his new wifes' skirts...just another prison Junkie loving her man!!!:behindbar :doh:

Don't forget Collettte was pregnant so it's technically 4 even though there was no fetal law back then.

 

[Kaly]

Mrs. knows him (from his time in Long Beach in the late 1970s where she grew up - she and her brother went to school with Randi Markwith) - says he's guilty as sin (and very arrogant) and didn't like him at all, but some of his buddies still support him. Not many, though.

Really? And where is Randi Markwith these days? Did she think he was not guilty? I grew up in Long Beach, and then lived down the street from mac in Huntington Harbour but I didn't meet him.

 

[cami]

I'm so glad that he got turned down. He doesn't deserve to ever get out. I saw him and his wife on some program awhile back. He is still arrogant and said he had been trying to get whoever to check out the DNA because he is sure that it will prove that he is innocent. He does have a pretty wife and they were supposed to have met when he was still out after the murders.
Just watching her and listening to her made me really wonder what kind of problems she has to have married him.

He still harps about the hippys and the woman in the big hat. That gal was so high on drugs all of the time and so messed up that she wouldn't have known what end was up much less help commit 3 murders.

Apparently she left her husband and child for MacDonald. She's as sick as he is.

 

[cami]

Good luck to 'em proving that theory with psychiatric records from the 60s. I don't believe nowadays many psychiatrists put a lot of faith in Freudian notions of effeminacy and latent homosexuality.

Which doesn't mean, of course, it didn't happen the way Kassab imagined it.

Yeah true. I don't know, I have a hard time believing he was molesting Kim but something untoward happened in that bedroom that night that caused him to flip his lid. That theory was Freddie's only. It was never used in court or at trial.

 

[Nova]

Yeah true. I don't know, I have a hard time believing he was molesting Kim but something untoward happened in that bedroom that night that caused him to flip his lid. That theory was Freddie's only. It was never used in court or at trial.

Certainly molestation is possible, but it could have been any number of things. What proved MacD's guilt in my mind (along with his oddly superficial wounds) was that he was telling bad lies in the weeks before the murder. (Bad lies being ones likely to be found out.)

Didn't he tell Collette he might not be at home for the delivery because he had to travel with the Army boxing team? And no such trip was scheduled? That's just a bad lie.

Add to that the fact that Collette was asking questions in her class that challenged MacD's authority and views, and it was a train wreck waiting to happen. The only surprising thing is the degree of the carnage. (Sleep deprivation and the use of amphetamines go to degree.)

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

Cami:

When I read that MacDonald had a parole hearing, I knew you'd be over here chatting away! Did the book come yet?

 

[Nova]

Cami:

When I read that MacDonald had a parole hearing, I knew you'd be over here chatting away! Did the book come yet?

You did NOT know and MacDonald did NOT have a parole hearing...

Oh. Sorry. Force of habit.

 

[Fritzy's Mom]

You did NOT know and MacDonald did NOT have a parole hearing...

Oh. Sorry. Force of habit.

LOL...Well, if you want the truth...

I'm not so sure this guy did it! That's why I never post over here - it's hard enough taking you on!

 

[nanandjim]

...I'm not so sure this guy did it...

It just doesn't make sense that the strongest threat (i.e., MacDonald) would be left with very superficial wounds while his family was slaughtered. If slaughter by the drug-crazed hippies was the intent, they all would have been killed, with MacDonald being first to go.

 

[Kaly]

www.latimes.com
Parole hearing reunites adversaries from MacDonald's '79 murder trial
Former Army doctor presses for early release

Los Angeles Times
Originally published May 15, 2005

CUMBERLAND, Md. - There were no greetings, no courtesies extended. Inside a cramped federal prison interview room near the Appalachian border between Maryland and West Virginia, three graying adversaries picked up this week where they left off 25 years ago, sparring over an infamous murder case that haunts them still.


~
For the first time, MacDonald, an inmate in the medium-security Federal Correctional Institution at Cumberland, had asked for a parole hearing to press for an early release. But two U.S. Parole Commission hearing examiners informed him Tuesday that they would urge the commission to keep him locked away until he is eligible for parole in 15 years. The commissioners will decide the issue within the next several weeks, spokesman Tom Hutchinson said.

 

[cami]

Cami:

When I read that MacDonald had a parole hearing, I knew you'd be over here chatting away! Did the book come yet?

Oh yes thank you. I should have pm'd you. It came last Friday. Forgive my tardiness in thanking you. I was at hospital all last week as my mum was back in so not much time on the computer, but she's home now and doing fine.

Yes, MacDonald is my favourite case.

 

[cami]

LOL...Well, if you want the truth...

I'm not so sure this guy did it! That's why I never post over here - it's hard enough taking you on!

Ah ha Cami rubs her hands together.

 

[cami]

In 1997, MacDonald's lawyers persuaded a federal appeals court to allow testing on hair and other trace evidence found in the MacDonald home, using DNA technology that had been unavailable at the time of the killings. The genetic tests, being conducted by the U.S. Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, are not complete. But MacDonald's attorneys have suggested that they could be used to show the presence of other people in the MacDonald home before the killings.

what the!!! Yes, I am sure there were plenty of people in his home before the killings but were they there during the killings and performing the killings. Those dna tests will be nothing but inconclusive. I bet they have the results and are sitting on them. Why would he apply for parole if these tests are going to free him.

 

[cami]

Hi Miles,

I, too, believed at one point he was innocent. However, after reading many books and articles, as well as the trascripts, I changed my mind. I firmly believe he is guilty.

However, even if I didn't believe he was guilty, I know at least one - Helena Stockely - has died. Actually, I think another did too, but don't remember for sure. That would make it extremely difficult to prove they did do this.

Greg Mitchell, her boyfriend. He died very young as well due to his excessive drug and alcohol abuse.

He passed a polygraph and not one of his fingrerprints, footprints, hair, fibres etc., that you would expect to find if he was involved in the murder of three people was ever found in that home. The only evidence missing is the evidence that backs Mac's claims.

 

[cami]

This is a tough case, but I can vaguely remember seeing a documentary about these murders and thinking at the time that he was innocent. I know they can sway the program to either side, but I came away from the show thinking it was a case of the wrong guy getting convicted. I can't tell you all the evidence or anything like that, been too long since I watched it, but I do remember thinking he didn't do it. Guess it doesn't matter much if he isn't eligible for another 15 years, but what a travesty it would be if he were innocent and someone has gotten away with these murders all these years.

Please don't start flaming me saying how could I believe that. I'm just stating my opinion. I'd have to review the case info again to see if what I remember feeling is accurate.

I think you are referring to False Witness, a BBC documentary. Yes, Macdonald thought it would do for him what the Thin Blue Line did for ________ (you can tell I don't know his name).

 

[cami]

Wish I could be as sure as y'all are on his guilt. I'm sure anyone writing will have read both "Fatals". The invasion scenario was unlikely at best but a possibility considering the Dr.s alienating the village druggies.

And that begs the question why didn't they kill him then. Why kill a two-year old, did she alienate the druggies? And how does someone who is responsible for the monthly veneral disease report and clean latrines alienate drug addicts. Macdonald had nothing to do with drug addicts at Ft. Bragg other than maybe treating them in the Emergency of the hospitals he moonlighted at.

 

[Jules]

Greg Mitchell, her boyfriend. He died very young as well due to his excessive drug and alcohol abuse.

He passed a polygraph and not one of his fingrerprints, footprints, hair, fibres etc., that you would expect to find if he was involved in the murder of three people was ever found in that home. The only evidence missing is the evidence that backs Mac's claims.

Hi Cami,

Yes, Greg Mitchell - that's it! Thank you! I could not remember his name. And I do remember there being nothing to link him to the murders in the home.

 

[little1]

Certainly molestation is possible, but it could have been any number of things. What proved MacD's guilt in my mind (along with his oddly superficial wounds) was that he was telling bad lies in the weeks before the murder. (Bad lies being ones likely to be found out.)

Didn't he tell Collette he might not be at home for the delivery because he had to travel with the Army boxing team? And no such trip was scheduled? That's just a bad lie.

Add to that the fact that Collette was asking questions in her class that challenged MacD's authority and views, and it was a train wreck waiting to happen. The only surprising thing is the degree of the carnage. (Sleep deprivation and the use of amphetamines go to degree.)

I too am not sur eof the molestation charge although I would not be surprised. It happens all the time in "normal" families.

Anywho, imo it probably hasmor eto do with COlette and her growing independence. She was getting her education, raising her kids, and starting to speak her mind. MacDoanld, to me, seems to be the type of man who CANNOT be arond a woman that speaks her mind. Or GOD FORBID---be right in some instances. I think they got into an arguement ove rhte bedwetting thing, she mentioned that she had asked her professor in class and he agreed with her over MacDonald as to what they should do about the problem.


I know that is kinda out there, but that is what I think!