GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #8

[sundrop]

Good article:

Cell tower junk science (PDF format)

Despite claims to the contrary, cell tower evidence cannot reliably place a suspect or victim near a crime scene or location. For example, your cell ping could be picked up by one tower when you were not even using the phone in the radius of that tower.


http://educatedevidence.com/Viewpoint_J-F.pdf

Portabella,

Remember all those geometry lessons you hated in school? Figuring out the degrees of the angles in triangles? Thankfully, some geeks love that math and have used it as the basis for telecommunications science. Telecomm technicians/engineers use those same principles to triangulate the approximate point of actual ping locations between towers. Not a perfect science, but it's become far more accurate these days.

In this instance, results may also be supported by GPS information from the iPhone 4s, too. Aside from the standard GPS that Kelli may have had set to active on the phone, many, many phone apps include a service called 'location' on by default. An example: Say Kelli used Facebook or twitter apps on her phone, and had either set to 'update location'. Each time that Kelli sent an update (post), the content would automagically be updated with her GPS location at the time.

Not saying that Kelli did use any app like that the night she went missing, those are just examples of phone apps that usually have 'location' turned on by default.

Police may have:

• The triangulated ping report from teleco
• GPS - basic service from the phone
• Potentially other location updates from app Kelli used on her phone
• iPhone 'find my phone' locater - last set of data

Even with all of those data points, or just one, it doesn't answer where Kelli is, but points LE to where to begin looking for the phone when it was disabled. Kelli may or may not have been near at the time, but whoever was in possession of her phone was last near that ping location, KWIM?


>skip this part if you really don't want a lesson< ;p

(FWIW, all of these application services are all part of big business for software developers these days. They all fall under 'geolocation'. Many companies pay big money, and make big money by gathering data on where people are at any given time. Have you heard of FourSquare or Groupon? People 'check-in' electronically to their local coffee shop, and the local coffee shop uses that knowledge of the customer's proximity to offer coupons, discounts & specials. And they gather a truckload of data about consumer buying habits in the process. All because these cool little gadgets on our phones do it automagically.)

 

[Portabella]

Welcome Hope2forget30...

May I ask, if you participated in the search as a civilian volunteer how did you see Nicks lean to? his hygiene products? the bar area? her apartment?

Can you specify in what capacity you saw these things? Were you shown them in photographs ??? or how????

Any idea where Kelli's car is? Just curious your view on her car ???? TIA

 

[writer7]

I've been reading everything with interest, y'all. I stick in comments fairly randomly, but I want y'all to know I read every post

A couple of things about the visit from Justin, and Kelli being at the bar before: The awesome compilation of quotes and article by Muckrucker has Justin and Kelli and Kelli's sister being the ones there while some were playing pool when Nick first met Kelli.

Also, that was said to be a week or two before Fri the 13th. I believe another quote had it as two weeks.

I don't know if those details matter a bit, but I've just noticed them as they were brought up.



Has anyone searched the construction area yet? That one might be hard to arrange.

VOH, if at all possible, could you describe how someone would get from Nick's tent to Froggy's? Could anyone see or hear a car driving in or out (like, is it possible)? What would someone pass in between the two places? What's the terrain like?


eta: I cross posted with a lot! Sorry!

 

[hope2forget30]

My team, along with two other teams, specifically searched the heavily wooded area behind FBs. We came across what look to be a homeless area made of plastic wrapped around trees, soda bottles, hygiene products, etc. We haulted and called LE in and they stated they had already processed that scene, so we moved on. We went all the way down to the streams, found numerous beer bottles, trash, etc..nothing of importance. The shrubbery was very heavy but we looked as closely as possible. Went all the way up past the credit union tree line. Other teams search across the street near her apt complex. We finished and then another group went out towards her apt complex again. Each time, to get to that area, we had to cross a HUGE road construction area with active bull dozers and tractors, etc. Mounds of red and orange dirt/clay piled up some 25 ft high. If...and only "if" someone wanted to hide a body, that would be the perfect place. beside dumping a body mile away in some river or stream. But to get rid of quickly, the construction area was huge. Just a hypothesis but studying the other cases, if a serial does exist, there is his perfect crime. And with all of these girls matching same descriptions as KB and ALL near a major highway, I find it a little too coincidental. Of course, I don't want to stir another conspiracy theory though.

 

[Portabella]

A couple of things about the visit from Justin, and Kelli being at the bar before: The awesome compilation of quotes and article by Muckrucker has Justin and Kelli and Kelli's sister being the ones there while some were playing pool when Nick first met Kelli.

I have heard about Nick and Kelli playing pool....but where did you hear her sister was there? I missed this somehow..... Where would I look to see this? TIA

 

[hope2forget30]

Writer7...that lean-to was deep straight back in the woods behind FBs. He could part his car there and walk back there OR access it from the adjoining apt complex that backs up to the creek. There is a wired fence from FBs all the way back to the creek. His lean-to was against the left side of the fence with lots of industrial plastic. No vehicle could drive up to there. Must be parked and walk at least 300 ft from FBs side or 100 ft from the adjoining apt complex side.

 

[Portabella]

My team, along with two other teams, specifically searched the heavily wooded area behind FBs. We came across what look to be a homeless area made of plastic wrapped around trees, soda bottles, hygiene products, etc. We haulted and called LE in and they stated they had already processed that scene, so we moved on. We went all the way down to the streams, found numerous beer bottles, trash, etc..nothing of importance. The shrubbery was very heavy but we looked as closely as possible. Went all the way up past the credit union tree line. Other teams search across the street near her apt complex. We finished and then another group went out towards her apt complex again. Each time, to get to that area, we had to cross a HUGE road construction area with active bull dozers and tractors, etc. Mounds of red and orange dirt/clay piled up some 25 ft high. If...and only "if" someone wanted to hide a body, that would be the perfect place. beside dumping a body mile away in some river or stream. But to get rid of quickly, the construction area was huge. Just a hypothesis but studying the other cases, if a serial does exist, there is his perfect crime. And with all of these girls matching same descriptions as KB and ALL near a major highway, I find it a little too coincidental. Of course, I don't want to stir another conspiracy theory though.

Which Thursday did you search? This past Thursday 041612? If so I find it very odd if that they have not yet removed NH possessions to be brought to forensics for testing....???? Now I am perplexed....

I have heard it mentioned by others that the construction area really needs to be searched so we are totally on the same page there. ...IMHO

 

[writer7]

I have heard about Nick and Kelli playing pool....but where did you hear her sister was there? I missed this somehow..... Where would I look to see this? TIA

OK, here is from an old post of mine, and the link is still good:

[I'm quoting the article here] Quote:
...Visit from friend

Henson said his sister, Holbert and the family friend, identified only as Justin, met for the first time a week or two before her disappearance.

Henson said Justin was in Fayetteville to visit Bordeaux. The two had been friends since Bordeaux and her family moved about 20 miles from Orlando, Fla., to the small town of St. Cloud in 1996 to escape escalating crime problems...
Quote:
...Henson said Holbert has acknowledged that he picked up Bordeaux in his car and took her home. Holbert told WTVD Channel 11 that he dropped Bordeaux off near the entrance of her apartment complex.

Holbert also told the television station that he only recently met Bordeaux and her friend, whom he did not identify.

"She came into Froggy Bottoms a couple of weeks ago with a friend - male friend - and they was drinking and playing pool," the station quoted Holbert. "And I asked if I could get next on the pool game. They said yes, and that's how I met them, playing pool at the bar."

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012...8?sac=fo.local

Shoot, except now I realize 'his sister' meant Kelli! Well, I'm glad we cleared that up quickly, then

Pretend I never brought that up!

 

[writer7]

Writer7...that lean-to was deep straight back in the woods behind FBs. He could part his car there and walk back there OR access it from the adjoining apt complex that backs up to the creek. There is a wired fence from FBs all the way back to the creek. His lean-to was against the left side of the fence with lots of industrial plastic. No vehicle could drive up to there. Must be parked and walk at least 300 ft from FBs side or 100 ft from the adjoining apt complex side.

Wow! If nobody at FB's knew he lived there, I bet he used the apartment complex. Does anyone know the name of the complex?

Residents of that complex might have important information, or they may run across evidence. I wonder about their dumpsters, too.

Thank you!

 

[hope2forget30]

I guess they took a few things from his lean-to for processing but there were still things left around. I can almost bet he did use the apt complex to park in at times because of the embankment that looked worn and frequented. Even found a golf club but nothing of importance. The residents of the apt complex were very aware of our search while offering water and such so I'm sure they are up to date about being on the look out and knowing to report anything they have seen in the past.
The construction area, again, is of some MAIN concern with me. It mounds up to 25ft high and could very easily hide the smell of a body even if they had the dogs to search. The workers of the site need to be checked and ID'd and suck...every one of them.

 

[StrayKat]

I wonder if the sewage drains have been checked. While googling 295 at the split where it meets Ramsey I noticed a sewage drain.

 

[Madeleine74]

No one knows who really sent the text messages.

LE and KB's family do not think KB sent those messages. So in considering a random rapist in the area who in your theory could possibly be the perp who got Kelli, is it reasonable to believe that rapist sent those txt messages or arranged for someone to do so from KB's phone? Why would this random rapist care that anyone believed Kelli got home safely or was getting a ride from a man? I'm trying but I don't see the logic in that and how it fits with the known facts.

Further, if in these 12 other area rapes no other woman was killed and no other woman had her phone sending text messages on her behalf, I don't see how this crime fits with those other 12 area rapes.

 

[Tilmylastbreath]

coulda been their first, doesnt have to be like the rest.

i think your right, searching construction workers for id's and info would help. they 'travel' for work, state to state... some of them, yep.

tons of perps live in the area, not to mention the surrounding areas...TONS.

.

 

[katydid23]

The only reason for someone to send those texts, imo, is if they are connected to the victim. JMO

 

[Tilmylastbreath]

EXACTLY RIGHT, a stranger passing threw, or random person wouldnt care.

my moneys still on that SO.

.

 

[curiousjo]

Someone at Froggys had to know NH lived behind the bar. They would have seen his car parked there every night when closing the bar. Not to mention see him walking in /out of woods, hanging at the bar all the time. Sounds like he had been there for a while - not just days. Come on!?

I think KB was lying in the woods by Froggys for a couple days = that lead to the stench. The body was moved/buried before found.

 

[nursebeeme]

hoping there is a break in Kelli's case today.. not finding any updates yet this morning..

 

[mamamia54]

My question is, if the last cell ping came from around the bar and she still wasn't even near home yet, then why would she send that "got home safely", message?

Adding - This would imply that she never left the area surrounding the bar, and would also be why the searches kept being conducted around the general area? So, if nothing was found there, and Nicks car was indeed searched, is the general consensus that he carried her away from the bar to his leanto?

It's just not making any sense to me.

 

[VOH910]

Catch Up Post:

Chili Fries
VOH, were the clocks at Froggy Bottoms set to bar time...were they 15 minutes fast? If so, LE would have to take that into account when trying to establish a timeline.

Idk about all of the clocks, but the main one is set to normal time.

JustyThoughts
VOH, when you say that no one left or entered bar 30 minutes on either side of when KB & NH left, does that include NH & KB?

I cannot answer this.

hope2forget30

While I have suspicions on both NH and MB, after comparing cases, this article of statistics really puts a twist in my thought process. Last Thursday, I helped in the search party for Kelli. I saw NH's lean-to and personal hygiene products, the bar area, her apartment, etc. What stood out to me was the HUGE road construction going on directly across the street from the bar with acres of orange clay and bulldozers. These other women in this article were "abducted" or went "missing" near a major highway and some confirmed with major on-going road construction. Some of these girls' appearances are almost identical. Especially Holly Bobo and KB. Case info is also very similar. Just something to think about and study.

Nick's lean-to was a tent. (http://chestofbooks.com/home-improv...ges/Tents-for-Hikes-and-the-Back-Yard-289.jpg) Easily made out of an Army issued woobie or parachute. Keep in mind these things are easy to come by in this area with the abundance of military and pawn shops. If you are refering to the building behind Froggy's that is the tiki-bar. That is different.

I am in agreement of construction site. It also runs up and behind the Kangaroo-mart just south of Froggys.

writer7
VOH, if at all possible, could you describe how someone would get from Nick's tent to Froggy's? Could anyone see or hear a car driving in or out (like, is it possible)? What would someone pass in between the two places? What's the terrain like?

They would walk. I do not know the exact location of where his tent was, but from having looked at property lines, one would walk about 1/4 mile if that through some medium density wooded terrain then cross the back yard of Froggys that is about maybe 300 feet in length.

If the door is open the car driving through the back yard would be visible. Hearing it, probably not becaue the music is generally loud. We really only would hear a louder bike pulling up. If the music was off you really couldn't even hear a car pulling up - again unless it had a louder exhaust on it.

The only thing that would be passed are the burn barrels, cable spools used as tables, plastic lawn chairs, the tiki bar (depending what size of the back yard you are walking on) and the outdoor stage.

hope2forget30
I guess they took a few things from his lean-to for processing but there were still things left around. I can almost bet he did use the apt complex to park in at times because of the embankment that looked worn and frequented. Even found a golf club but nothing of importance. The residents of the apt complex were very aware of our search while offering water and such so I'm sure they are up to date about being on the look out and knowing to report anything they have seen in the past.

He may have parked his vehicle there, but that complex is pretty strick about parking regulations. Assigned parking, limited spaces.

curiousjo
Someone at Froggys had to know NH lived behind the bar. They would have seen his car parked there every night when closing the bar. Not to mention see him walking in /out of woods, hanging at the bar all the time. Sounds like he had been there for a while - not just days. Come on!?

This is just on theory here. No one worked every day at the bar or a full day's shift. So if he came in just minutes after the tender, she's too busy getting ready for her shift. She leaves before he does. Next tender comes in. Doesn't know what time he got there. He volunteers to help her close up. Makes sure she's in her car. Gets in his. She drives off before he leaves.

The way the bar is set up, you wouldn't really notice if his car was parked on the side of the building unless you specifically were looking for it. Just some thoughts. From the employees and regulars I talked to there, they did not know he was living behind the bar. - At least he had hygeine products!

 

[Cazzie]

NBC (Today show? no link, saw it on TV) had a segment about Kelli today...her mom was on...making a plea for whomever has her to release her, a direct to Kelli "I love you and miss you", and if someone hurt Kelli "God will get you"...

The anchor said that Kelli's mom is breaking her silence.

Heartbreaking.