NC - Shaniya Davis, 5, Allegedly sold by mother 11/10/09 #16

[annettef49]

A dead person can not hold their head up.

Maybe the was holding her head up with his arm??

 

[not_my_kids]

I so not see it as different pattern.

It's the same pattern, but not cut in the same place. Look at the top corner, closest to the elevator door, where the brown and white overlay. You can see it there the best, they don't match up.

 

[not_my_kids]

Maybe the was holding her head up with his arm??

But he couldn't hold her legs together. And the shot of her hand on his shoulder, she couldn't hold it there, like she was, if she were dead at that time.

 

[annettef49]

She would not be capable of holding her legs together if she was dead, and her knees are held together.
She's also holding her arm up, as far as I can tell. She is most definitely alive.

Couldn't her legs have stayed close together n knees even AFTER she passed away??

 

[kiki the parrot]

Shaniya looks very much alive to me--likely looking up at the elevator light--in the hotel surveillance.

arrot:

 

[Patty G]

Do we know for certain the baby is Coe's?

Coe annouced it himself ALTHOUGH, he really doesn't know until the baby is born and a DNA test is done. For all we know "he might be surprised."

 

[not_my_kids]

Couldn't her legs have stayed close together n knees even AFTER she passed away??

How? All your muscles release at the time of death...you go limp, totally limp.
When rigor sets in, the person is totally unmovable, and you can see her change position between stills. And her feet aren't pointed like they would be if she was in rigor.

 

[Carolina Girl]

I do not see it as different pattern. If he takes one more step he will be on the solid color of the carpet.
Which is right in front of the elevator.

Okay, but what I see different is the black in the pattern. In the video shot, the black goes to the wall, in the one today, it does not.

 

[kiki the parrot]

It's the same pattern, but not cut in the same place. Look at the top corner, closest to the elevator door, where the brown and white overlay. You can see it there the best, they don't match up.

Agree! On more careful inspection not the same IMO. And it's more than the angle etc. Same carpet pattern but it isn't the same piece.

Since we have ruled out floors 1 and 4 (due to down/up buttons) and the carpet isn't consistent w 3, it must be the second floor IMO.

arrot:

 

[annettef49]

But he couldn't hold her legs together. And the shot of her hand on his shoulder, she couldn't hold it there, like she was, if she were dead at that time.

To me, her arm isnt resting on his shoulder. Looks to me like her arm is laying across her body. JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

LE said she was alive when seen leaving. Beyond which if she were not, they wouldn't be agonizing over jurisdiction of murder and related charges. The issue in question still is where Shaniya actually expired.

arrot:

 

[not_my_kids]

To me, her arm isnt resting on his shoulder. Looks to me like her arm is laying across her body. JMO

Not the side by side. One of the other two photos, while they were waiting. Her hand is on his shoulder, and it clearly her hand, and you can see from the position of his own hands that he isn't holding it there.

There is simply NO WAY that she was dead in those pictures. I would prefer that she were, we would know it was already over at that point, but reality....she was alive.

 

[SuziQ]

Looks the same to me.

 

[JennyMominRI]

. If Antoinette was HIV+ and had gotten pregnant by somebody that wasn't, she'd have a good chance of having a healthy non HIV infected baby...but they could still carry the trait which could remain dormant for that child's entire life. I said could, not would, as it doesn't happen all the time. Now, in Coe's situation, he's a male. He has an incredibly high chance of passing on not only the HIV virus to Antoinette (if she doesn't have it already), but also to his unborn child. Statistics back me up, as well as biology involving germ cells, viruses and disease pathology. The proof is in the cultures. The WHO knows more than the CDC and holds much info regarding this issue.

Jersey

This is not correct. HIV rarely crosses the placenta. 99% of perinatal transmission cases are caused by contact with blood during delivery or from breast feeding. Coe would pass the HIV on the Antoinette and she would potentially pass it on during birth. This is why bloodless c-sections are now the norm for HIV women.
Also a child cannot carry dormant HIV for years. All babies born to HIV mothers test positive for HIV at birth. This is because a standard HIV test know as an ELISA test, looks for anti-bodies. Babies share Moms anti-bodies and shed them generally by 18 months. Most babies testing HIV at birth seroconvert by 18 months when the antibodies are shed. I know, I've lived this. I have children that were born HIV positive and who seroconverted. Once they seroconvert there is no chance of them becoming HIV or carrying the virus,unless they expose themselves to it as adults

From this link
http://www.tpan.com/publications/positively_aware/sep_oct_03/treatment_series_perinatal.html


Many people are misinformed about the risks of perinatal HIV transmission, including many healthcare providers. Some people mistakenly believe that all babies born to HIV positive women will be infected, or that HIV positive women are too sick to have healthy pregnancies and give birth to healthy children. Many people also don’t know that there are ways to greatly reduce the risk of mother-to-child HIV transmission. About 25% of children born to HIV positive women who receive no treatment or interventions against perinatal HIV transmission become infected with HIV—that means an average of 25 out of 100 babies, or 1 in 4, can pick up HIV from their mothers during pregnancy, birth, or afterward from breastfeeding. But perinatal HIV infection rates can drop to as low as 1% or 2% for babies whose mothers are able to use combination antiretroviral therapy during pregnancy, AZT or nevirapine prophylaxis during labor and after birth, and choose the birth option that’s safest, according to maternal viral load levels, for both mother and baby.
How perinatal HIV transmission happens

A fetus (your baby from 8 weeks gestation until birth) or newborn can become infected with HIV through contact with virus in their mother’s blood, cervical and vaginal secretions, and breast milk. It’s the mom’s HIV status that matters, not the father’s—HIV transmission to babies is all about the virus in their mom’s fluids, not in their father’s semen. If the mom stays HIV negative throughout her pregnancy, there’s no risk to the baby even if the father is HIV positive.

No one knows the exact mechanisms involved in perinatal transmission, but it’s believed to occur three different ways:

Prenatally (in utero): Some babies acquire HIV because the virus crossed the placenta during pregnancy—this doesn’t happen very often, but it can. During pregnancy, the mother’s blood supply is connected to the fetal blood supply via the umbilical cord and placenta. The mother and the baby do not share the same blood supply, but sometimes HIV in the mother’s blood is able to cross the placenta and infect the baby. The following conditions can increase the risk of transmission during gestation:

* Becoming infected with HIV during pregnancy. A person’s viral load is very high right after they acquire the virus, and a high viral load increases the transmission risk to the fetus.
* Infections of the chorion, amniotic membranes, or reproductive tract. Sexually-transmitted vaginal infections like chlamydia, gonorrhea, and trichomoniasis can cause a spike in the pregnant woman’s viral load, which can in turn increase the risk of transmission to her fetus.
* Placenta Previa. This is when the placenta grows over part or all of the cervix—a condition that can lead to heavy bleeding before or during labor. Placenta previa often corrects itself as the uterus expands during pregnancy.

At birth: During labor and delivery, the baby comes into contact with her/his mother’s blood and cervical/vaginal secretions while passing through the cervix and vagina. Research indicates that the majority of babies who pick up HIV infection from their mothers probably acquire the virus during the birth process.

During breastfeeding: There have been several documented cases in which HIV has been transmitted through breastfeeding. HIV has been isolated in breast milk, and the documented cases of transmission through breastfeeding indicate that the virus was passed through the milk rather than during gestation or the birth process. Blood from cracked nipples or breast infection (mastitis) may also be present during breastfeeding, and may contribute to the risk of infection.

The risk of perinatal transmission risk at any stage can be greatly reduced by:

1. Taking combination therapy during pregnancy to reduce maternal viral load.
2. Taking AZT during labor and birth to help protect the baby while it’s exposed to HIV in blood and cervical secretions.
3. Choosing the birth option that poses the least risk to both mother and baby—a normal vaginal birth, or an elective cesarean section (surgical birth).
4. Administering AZT to the newborn for up to six weeks after birth.
5. Bottle-feeding formula or breast milk from a milk bank instead of breastfeeding or bottle-feeding your baby your own breast milk.


After birth and info about seroconversion
Follow-Up of the HIV-Exposed Infant

The HIV-exposed infant should be referred to a pediatric HIV specialist for diagnostic testing and monitoring of health status. Newborns should be discharged home with a supply of ZDV oral syrup. The newborn should receive ZDV syrup at a dose of 2 mg/kg body weight per dose every 6 hours beginning 8-12 hours after birth and continuing for 6 weeks.

Traditional HIV antibody testing cannot be used with infants because maternal antibodies may persist for up to 18 months. Diagnosis of HIV infection in infants requires virologic testing with HIV DNA polymerase chain reaction (PCR) or HIV RNA PCR. The DHHS Pediatric ARV Guidelines recommend testing at birth to 14 days, at 1-2 months, and at 3-6 months. HIV DNA PCR is a sensitive test that detects viral DNA in the patient's peripheral monocytes. Although the sensitivity of DNA PCR is <40% if performed <48 hours after birth, by 2-4 weeks of age, the sensitivity is >90%. HIV RNA PCR detects extracellular viral RNA in the plasma and is as sensitive as DNA PCR for early diagnosis in infants. Some clinicians recommend using the HIV RNA assay as a confirmatory test for an infant with a positive DNA PCR result. This approach confirms the diagnosis and can help guide treatment decisions. HIV viral culture is also sensitive, but it is expensive and results may not be available for 2-4 weeks.

HIV can be diagnosed in an infant on the basis of 2 positive virologic tests done on separate blood samples at any time. HIV reasonably can be excluded in an infant with 2 negative virologic tests done at >1 month of age, with 1 being done at >4 months of age. Antibody testing is recommended at age 12-18 months to document seroreversion.

Infants should have a baseline complete blood count and should be monitored for anemia while they are taking ZDV. The DHHS Perinatal ARV Guidelines recommend Pneumocystis jiroveci pneumonia (PCP) prophylaxis for HIV-exposed infants beginning at 6 weeks (when the ZDV is completed) and continuing until age 6 months or until HIV infection can be ruled out.

Parents and family care givers need to be educated that the infant must be monitored closely until an HIV diagnosis is made or is ruled out. They also need to know that the infant's exposure to ARV agents in utero is an important part of the infant's medical history and should be shared with future health care providers. Although no long-term consequences of ARV exposure have been confirmed, the child may be at risk of long-term problems.


I was pregnant with my now 17 year old daughter when my then husband infected me wit AIDS. Believe me, I know all of the scientific info on perinatal transmission of AIDS

re your friend you mention here
, I've worked with many an AIDS patient...sharing numerous hugs & kisses. I've had a friend since childhood become HIV infected & have a child with the virus also. It doesn't even show up in her son anymore & he's now 19!

Her son probably tested positive at birth as all babies born to HIV mothers do. He probably seroconverted at around 18 months which is why he hasn't tested postitive for HIV in years. He never had it. He just had mom''s antibodies

 

[elepher50]

2nd floor it is - that has my vote:

1. Not the 1st as it has no carpet
2. Not the 4th as it would not have an up button on pad
3. Not the 3rd as carpet pattern is not the same

Hence, it is the last and only floor left being 2nd. They were on the 2nd floor and heading down and out with an alive Shaniya.

 

[Patty G]

The police even stated she was alive but they didn't know in "what condition she was in." This all makes sense to me considering it is obvious they are heading to the elevator, pushed the button to go down, at one point in one of the shots Shaniya appears to look at the elevator door.

 

[not_my_kids]

Looks the same to me.

Look at the white and brown overlay from where McNeils leg is to the wall.
Look at the same section in the photo taken today...

They pattern is the same, but it's not cut in the same place.
Not the same place in both pictures.

 

[Blue Ridge]

Flipping a photo will not change the carpet pattern.

It's NOT flipped....in AMF's photos the call button and the plaques above it are on the same side as in the photos w/ MAM.

 

[SuziQ]

Look at the white and brown overlay from where McNeils leg is to the wall.
Look at the same section in the photo taken today...

They pattern is the same, but it's not cut in the same place.
Not the same place in both pictures.

I agree now. Same hotel, different floor.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Look at the white and brown overlay from where McNeils leg is to the wall.
Look at the same section in the photo taken today...

They pattern is the same, but it's not cut in the same place.
Not the same place in both pictures.

I think you are right . The brown section of the carpet looks different by the door