Found Safe NC - Shaylie Madden, 7-week-old infant, Biltmore Park in Asheville, 9 May 2019 *Arrest*

[MsFacetious]

I just don't see this woman as a Susan Smith type. But anything is possible. It certainly seems like those close to her believe it was PPP. There appears to have been some knowledge there that it may have been an issue.

Maybe her husband doesn't want to comment because he knew she had an issue and he's afraid of the backlash. Andrea Yates is a great example of the enormous backlash when the husband doesn't get the wife help.

If this is a similar situation maybe he is worried about his own legal/custody situation and doesn't want to comment for that reason?

All just hypothesizing.

 

[katydid23]

She said she "saw" kidnappers who the police say were nonexistent. She is trying to present as psychotic (postpartum psychosis) because seeing things that aren't there would be a visual hallucination. Hallucinations and delusions occur in psychosis. Psychosis is a huge step beyond being depressed.

Another part of her story that doesn't fit with the diagnosis of postpartum psychosis is that she threw the baby down the ravine, yet the nonexistent kidnappers were supposed to have committed this crime.

Dissociative Identity Disorder (where she would have assumed the identity of the black or red- haired kidnapper) has never been associated with postpartum psychosis that I can find in the medical literature. So it's extremely unlikely that in her alleged psychosis she assumed the identity of one of her nonexistent kidnappers.

In addition, in her alleged hallucination, she was the victim. She won't be able to claim DID made her throw her baby down the cliff as that doesn't fit with her stated hallucination (victim description) and it isn't supported in the medical literature as being associated with postpartum depression.

I guess I am seeing it in a possibly different scenario. The Extreme depression that presents with Post partum depression can be very severe and illogical. Just like the kind of severe depression that prompts a mother to set herself on fire, in an attempt to kill herself, because she thinks her kids will be better off without her.

Sever post partum depression can make someone 'repel' and reject their newborn, for no apparent reason. She may have been so severely depressed about having the new child, that she made up a way to rid herself of the child. I AM NOT CONDONING her actions. Just wondering if she may have had a medically explainable hormonal illness that created severe post partum depression.

It may be revealed later that her husband was planning to divorce her, and she wanted to get back at him. Or the child wasn't his and she wanted to hide that fact. Or she is a drug addict and had a meltdown. Who knows? But I am still on the fence with the possibility of PPD.

 

[katydid23]

I just don't see this woman as a Susan Smith type. But anything is possible. It certainly seems like those close to her believe it was PPP. There appears to have been some knowledge there that it may have been an issue.

Maybe her husband doesn't want to comment because he knew she had an issue and he's afraid of the backlash. Andrea Yates is a great example of the enormous backlash when the husband doesn't get the wife help.

If this is a similar situation maybe he is worried about his own legal/custody situation and doesn't want to comment for that reason?

All just hypothesizing.

And even if she did have it, he may be torn, and still be very angry.

My friend had only a mild case, where she sought help because she had a hard time feeling bonded and felt depressed rather than happy with motherhood. The doctor diagnosed postpartum and treated her effectively. But her husband and inlaws were judgmental about her illness, and rather unforgiving. <<<Seeing it as a character defect rather than a hormonal imbalance.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

And even if she did have it, he may be torn, and still be very angry.

My friend had only a mild case, where she sought help because she had a hard time feeling bonded and felt depressed rather than happy with motherhood. The doctor diagnosed postpartum and treated her effectively. But her husband and inlaws were judgmental about her illness, and rather unforgiving. <<<Seeing it as a character defect rather than a hormonal imbalance.

There is no agreed upon cause of postpartum depression as men can also be afflicted.
Sad Dads: Paternal Postpartum Depression

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Krista's alleged hallucination involved two people kidnapping Shaylie and herself, yet she threw her baby down into a ravine. Throwing her baby into a ravine doesn't fit into her hallucination that she was a victim of kidnapping.

According to a medical literature search, Dissociative Identity Disorder is not associated with postpartum psychosis. So she didn't suddenly believe she had become one her kidnappers and that's why she threw her baby down a ravine.

Throwing a baby into a ravine while still strapped into a carseat does fit into a staged crime scenario where evil kidnappers dump a child victim.

She took logical actions requiring organized thoughts to obstruct justice, imo. She drove away from the lush, forested, isolated area where she disposed of her baby where only a merciful God allowed it to be found. Then she got out of her car and removed a bamboo "gate" so she could drive her car down a private property road. She entered her car again and drove it far enough down the private property road where it couldn't easily be seen by people searching for it. Then she either ran or walked away from where she hid her car and flagged down a resident to announce that she and her baby had been kidnapped.

 

[Knox]

Can't discuss this further here, but if you go to mom's FB friends, click the tab that shows work friends and check them out, you'll see some posts about Krista.

Thank you Gardenista, I read what you suggested. I hope Krista gets some help and the rest of her life is not ruined by what she did. This is a tough one which deserves some research into postpartum psychosis and a whole lot of compassion before you comment. MOO!!

 

[Nancy Drew RN]

Thank you Gardenista, I read what you suggested. I hope Krista gets some help and the rest of her life is not ruined by what she did. This is a tough one which deserves some research into postpartum psychosis and a whole lot of compassion before you comment. MOO!!

Certainly the response of those who know her seems to be that she was suffering from PPD w/psychosis--everyone seems shocked. Probably her husband is doing exactly what the attorneys are recommending regarding commenting to the media, etc.

 

[JanetElaine]

In some post partum cases, the mother is not psychotic. She can be severely depressed, severely out of whack hormonally and emotionally, and feel a compulsion to get rid of the new child, inexplicably. It is such a weird and tragic illness.

Maybe she doesn't have it and she is just evil. But it doesn't seem like it, looking at recent history. So I am baffled by her violent actions.

I'll never forget when my eldest was a newborn and I was the only one taking care of her. She was a colicky baby and one day she screamed and screamed as usual and I 'snapped' and yelled at her to stop her crying or I'd throw her in the garbage bin. It was weird. I didn't want to get rid of her at all, loved and still love her to death. I stopped in my tracks and held her while ugly crying. It was a mess. I didn't even realize I needed help, either. Thankfully soon after my mom did realize it and she helped out so much. It didn't sink in until many years later how much my mom really did back then.

I get saying 'why didn't she seek help/say something' in cases like this - but it's not as simple as that, IMO. Sometimes you don't even realize you need help.

All MOO

 

[Doghairrules]

Certainly the response of those who know her seems to be that she was suffering from PPD w/psychosis--everyone seems shocked. Probably her husband is doing exactly what the attorneys are recommending regarding commenting to the media, etc.

Assuming that’s the case (PPD with psychosis), it’s alarming to me that even for this couple in the health field with presumably lots of resources, this wasn’t caught. Or certainly not in time.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

The medical community tries to screen for PPD. I know throughout my pregnancy and follow up visits after I had my son, I had to fill out questionnaires regarding the status of my mood / mental health. They were administered by my obgyn, the hospital where I delivered, and by my son's pediatrician.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Assuming that’s the case (PPD with psychosis), it’s alarming to me that even for this couple in the health field with presumably lots of resources, this wasn’t caught. Or certainly not in time.

Maybe this alleged mental health crisis wasn't detected or suspected by postpartum mental health exams, the pediatrician, or all their LOCAL friends (who had RECENT contact) in the medical profession because it wasn't the result of postpartum depression or psychosis.

Read the hundreds of postpartum psychosis stories on the internet. None involve multiple, logical steps to obstruct justice after the children were injured.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Postpartum psychosis can be fleeting. The afflicted can be rational one minute and hallucinating the next minute.

BUT if you threw your baby down a ravine because you were psychotic and then a few minutes later you began to have rational thoughts and took numerous steps to hide your car, that's a sign you knew you did something illegal. That's a sign of obstruction of justice and the ability to tell right from wrong.

She could have told LE that she was having mental health issues and might have done something to hurt her baby while she was driving around to hide her car, but she didn't. Instead, she chose to drive her car several miles away from the crime site, got out of her car to open a private property gate, got back into her car, and then drove her car down that private property road (more difficult for searchers to find) before abandoning it. Then she fled that area and flagged down a resident.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

If she had driven her car 20 miles out to the ravine and threw her baby into it because she was hallucinating and thought the baby was a monster, that would fit with the diagnosis of postpartum psychosis.

Taking logical steps from organized thoughts to obstruct justice after her child was injured wasn't a symptom of postpartum depression or psychosis.

 

[katydid23]

If she had driven her car 20 miles out to the ravine and threw her baby into it because she was hallucinating and thought the baby was a monster, that would fit with the diagnosis of postpartum psychosis.

Taking logical steps from organized thoughts to obstruct justice after her child was injured wasn't a symptom of postpartum depression or psychosis.

I am not really sure if this is a correct conclusion about all post partum behaviours.

I agree, she does not fit with the psychosis type of behaviour. But there are also extreme and severe depressive states, that do fit this type of 'logical' but irrational behaviour. So I would want a medical expert to look at her behaviour and say if it can be diagnosed as post partum, before I say it is not possible.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

She has not one, but two defense attorneys. I'm sure they'll find catalogues of medical experts, choose many, and fly them into NC from other states. They'll find one that will testify that this was the result of postpartum psychosis, but I'm not sure the residents of Henderson County will believe it.

In addition, the DA, an elected official, will check his or her voter base for percentage of women voters that are childbearing age. Then he or she will determine if he or she should prosecute Krista for attempted murder.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

If she had driven her car 20 miles out to the ravine and threw her baby into it because she was hallucinating and thought the baby was a monster, that would fit with the diagnosis of postpartum psychosis.

Taking logical steps from organized thoughts to obstruct justice after her child was injured wasn't a symptom of postpartum depression or psychosis.

I don't know if it would necessarily manifest itself that way. It could be something like, "this baby won't stop crying and she's doing it on purpose. " That would be an initial delusion that could lead to more irrational thoughts if she believed it. And I could see someone still acting logical even while holding on to irrational beliefs. I know an attorney who had a psychotic break. She was incredibly paranoid. When she was taken to the hospital against her will and her parents tried to speak to the doctor, she was screaming, "don't even think about violating my HIPAA rights." So even though she was in the middle of a delusional, psychotic episode, a part of her could still understand the legal implications of HIPAA. I don't think it's always so black and white.
However, I personally can't fathom how anyone would get to the point of throwing her child down an embankment. The fact that there was no inhibition in play makes me think she would have been exhibiting some serious symptoms beforehand...if it truly was post partum psychosis. (MOO)

 

[katydid23]

She has not one, but two defense attorneys. I'm sure they'll find catalogues of medical experts, choose many, and fly them into NC from other states. They'll find one that will testify that this was the result of postpartum psychosis, but I'm not sure the residents of Henderson County will believe it.

In addition, the DA, an elected official, will check his or her voter base for percentage of women voters that are childbearing age. Then he or she will determine if he or she should prosecute Krista for attempted murder.

Have you taken notice of what her coworkers, who worked with her on a daily basis believe? I take their opinions to heart because they would have a good understanding of what type of a nurse, and what type of a mother she was. They are shocked and believe it was PPD. So they do have me leaning in that direction.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Have you taken notice of what her coworkers, who worked with her on a daily basis believe? I take their opinions to heart because they would have a good understanding of what type of a nurse, and what type of a mother she was. They are shocked and believe it was PPD. So they do have me leaning in that direction.

I've taken notice that most of those coworkers are out-of-state. Did they have recent contact required to make an assessment of her mental health status? That's unknown.

She certainly doesn't seem like a mean woman. She may have been psychotic when she tossed her baby down a cliff, but it certainly looks like (imo) she became rational and then tried to cover it up. Maybe she won't be charged with attempted murder if someone can show she was bordering on psychosis in the days before the incident. Maybe she'll only be charged with obstruction of justice.

If she had thrown her baby down a ravine in a suburb of Asheville where the population of college-educated peeps is high (people who read about mental health disorders), she would be less likely to be prosecuted for murder, but that's not where the baby was injured.

 

[Stunned]

Am I the only one this link doesn't work for?

It doesn’t work for me.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Well...well...well....

The person who called 911 to report a kidnapping that law officials now say was fictitious said Asheville mother Krista Noelle Madden sent text messages claiming she was put in the trunk of her car while walking her newborn infant in Biltmore Park.
"The car is gone," the caller told the 911 operator. "I don't know where she would've gone for a walk then if she took the car. And I don't know if this is a hoax. But I've been trying to reach her. And it just says, 'Don't call the phone. I've been abducted."
911 call on faked kidnapping: 'Either way there is a 7-week-old little infant in trouble'

Now this sounds like a Borderline Personality Disorder cry for attention, imo. Sorry...not sorry.