NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #21

[agathawannabe]

There are so many places in the Pisgah National Forest to hide a body or evidence, such as a mattress etc.....and anyone familiar with the area would know this. EB has lived in this area for how long??? Do you really think, if she is involved, that she would pick an area close to any residence she occupied in the last 2 years? Possibly, but....

In my opinion, I think she would travel the 20 to 30 minutes it would take her to get to an isolated area. I have taken many road trips in the area north and west of Hickory/Hudson/Lenoir doing genealogy and the area there in the Pisgah National Forest is very isolated. Also having lived in the area 2 years ago, I recall a place off of Drag Strip Rd. in Hudson, that is a former landfill that is no longer in use??? It is located northwest of Dudley Shoals.

These are just a few thoughts running through my mind the last few days....sorry if I have stated anything inappropriate to this forum...I'm a newbie. :waitasec:

Egads!

How uncanny is it for you to mention a landfill off Drag Strip Rd!

One of EB's family members had an address on Carefree Court (right off Drag Strip) in 2007. Can you look at these arials and say if that's the landfill you're thinking of just NW of the map marker on Carefree?

and

Welcome to WS, LMB2!

 

[luvmyboys2]

I agree she may not be "smart enough" to think of a fool proof plan, but I have this feeling that she had enough time to think of a few things that made a difference in how difficult it would be for LE to find Zahra.

What I'm trying to say is...I think she thought it through as far as where...but when it came to the how part, she/they? screwed up.

Started fire and dumped gasoline in the work vehicle to destroy evidence? Also, as another forum member stated...the fire may have been the first step to get LE out there...find ransom note...and then have someone ask about any other children, in turn giving them a reason to check in on Zahra, to find her gone...but something did not go as planned....that would explain the delay in reporting her missing and the discrepancies in the story about where AB was from 5:30? until 2:00?....they did not plan on the delay...had to come up with a story about what he was doing during the time after the fire until he checked on her that afternoon. He has given a couple different explanations of his whereabouts during that time correct? This would insinuate dishonesty and a plan that went wrong.

 

[simlyme]

You know... I keep wondering about the fire and the ransom note. Up until the release of AB's 911 call, the fire didn't make sense to me. After listening to the 911 call, I decided that perhaps the fire and ransom note were an elaborate scheme to stage the disappearance of Zahra. Let's say that you KNOW your daughter is gone/dead.... you have to explain it to the outside world - so, you stage a fire (gives an opportunity for abduction), and you write a stupid ransom note to the wrong family (evidence you are setting up a mistaken identity scenario). The big question is WHY that day??? What was going on - or going to go on, that made them realize they needed to "stage" a fake abduction???

Why stage an abduction?

My theory for now.
Lets go back to when the neighbors at the other house(trailer) said they saw "them" and they smelled something. Small towns are small towns, Ive learned this here in NC myself, you catch on quick, NOTHING is a secret, everybody knows everybody, and somewhere in there,you have alot of relation,uncle,brother sisters,and the relation"cousin" pops up quite a bit, so,what Im trying to say is,maybe and very possible they "heard" about people talking, they HAD to do something,time was of the essense.
The crime had already been commited,(murder) ,time was closing in,they staged the abduction.
KWIM? My opinion only.

 

[Reannan]

Sad to say, but I believe the people most likely to have missed Zahra were on another continent. It would be interesting to know if there are cell phone records where someone from Australia had been calling and asking about Zahara shortly before the staged disappearance.

 

[simlyme]

Sad to say, but I believe the people most likely to have missed Zahra were on another continent. It would be interesting to know if there are cell phone records where someone from Australia had been calling and asking about Zahara shortly before the staged disappearance.

I feel safe believing that AB&EB had cut off communication with AU people, like probably didnt have phone numbers or addresses. EVIL:furious:

 

[luvmyboys2]

Egads!

How uncanny is it for you to mention a landfill off Drag Strip Rd!

One of EB's family members had an address on Carefree Court (right off Drag Strip) in 2007. Can you look at these arials and say if that's the landfill you're thinking of just NW of the map marker on Carefree?

and

Welcome to WS, LMB2!

That's exactly where I am talking about.

Can you elaborate on the family members who lived on Carefree Court?? Due to unfortunate circumstances....we found ourselves renting a place on Carefree Ct. from Sep.2007 thru Feb. 2008...I did not associate with any of the "neighbors" but my husband did, because he's that kind of guy lol...very neighborly no matter what. I'm trying to recall a few names/faces and decide whether I remember them.

 

[Peliman]

TY! That's really what I was sarx...or anyone else that may know...once a body was found, I was under the impression that LE had to notify next of kin once it had been positively identified..anyone know if that's true?

This is true of the newsroom I worked for a CBS local. We could report a homicide had taken place last night etc but could not give the victims name (even if we knew it) until LE notified us the victim had been identified and next of kin notified.

Station policy

I'm not sure it's law but it's darn good procedure.

 

[agathawannabe]

That's exactly where I am talking about.

Can you elaborate on the family members who lived on Carefree Court?? Due to unfortunate circumstances....we found ourselves renting a place on Carefree Ct. from Sep.2007 thru Feb. 2008...I did not associate with any of the "neighbors" but my husband did, because he's that kind of guy lol...very neighborly no matter what. I'm trying to recall a few names/faces and decide whether I remember them.

Per forum rules, we are not to discuss the "innocent bystanders" to a case - so I don't want to post anything that invades the person's privacy.. only to point out a connection exists that would make EB familiar with that location so others can mull that over. Please watch for a PM. Thanks.

 

[netsleuther]

I feel safe believing that AB&EB had cut off communication with AU people, like probably didnt have phone numbers or addresses. EVIL:furious:

If AB & EB were running from AU relatives they could just as easily stop communicating on MS or FB with them.

 

[Virgogalsue]

I just found this article....AB worked from sun up to sundown for $600 a MONTH???

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/23/dubs-defend-elisa-baker-ar-478734/

She has stated that she also got $591 in disability payments, plus a couple of hundred a month in food stamps.

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/...egal-trouble-follow-zahras-parents-ar-462500/

So that gives them roughly $1400 a month for 3 people???

Can anyone give me an idea of what welfare rates would be for a family of 3, in NC??

Thanks!

 

[nosysw]

I just found this article....AB worked from sun up to sundown for $600 a MONTH???

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/23/dubs-defend-elisa-baker-ar-478734/

She has stated that she also got $591 in disability payments, plus a couple of hundred a month in food stamps.

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/...egal-trouble-follow-zahras-parents-ar-462500/

So that gives them roughly $1400 a month for 3 people???

Can anyone give me an idea of what welfare rates would be for a family of 3, in NC??

Thanks!

I'm curious to hear this too...My husband owns a tree service business and his lowest paid employee makes much more than that a week...Granted we live in high salary area and my husband is more generous than most tree service owners...But here I know the welfare rates would be much lower than $1400 per month...

 

[netsleuther]

I just found this article....AB worked from sun up to sundown for $600 a MONTH???

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/23/dubs-defend-elisa-baker-ar-478734/

$600 a month is not much but if rent is included and the use of company car and probably an account for gas it's still a low income though but I can see why EB would mention the words control in her fake ransom note.

$600 a month is like lunch money.

 

[Pondering Mind]

This is true of the newsroom I worked for a CBS local. We could report a homicide had taken place last night etc but could not give the victims name (even if we knew it) until LE notified us the victim had been identified and next of kin notified.

Station policy

I'm not sure it's law but it's darn good procedure.

Peli, there were a few posts back aways speculating that perhaps Zahra's body may have been found and LE was keeping mum...I could have sworn that while following a case here (not sure, but I believe it was Caylee's) that I had read that LE could not withhold that fact that a body had been found..at least from the family..once the deceased had been identified. Do you know whether that's true or not?

 

[Virgogalsue]

$600 a month is not much but if rent is included and the use of company car and probably an account for gas it's still a low income though but I can see why EB would mention the words control in her fake ransom note.

$600 a month is like lunch money.

Good point! I wonder if their rent/car was included??? If it was, that could be a manageable salary.

I WISH that we had family members confirming the Monte Carlo!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I don't believe that was their income, I think it's possible he was receiving 'cash in hand' payments. The figure is way too low.

ETA: Oh rent! Good point.

 

[Virgogalsue]

I am not elitist. I recognize that people sometimes need to work 'under the table' to make ends meet.

When I was 22 and a young mother, I cleaned homes so that I could afford to take my daughter to McDonalds once a week and buy her basics, like a tricycle and an outing to the movies!
I was in University at the time trying to ensure that we had a good future.

I percieve EB as an opportunist....she would take advantage of ANY situation that worked to her advantage!

I wonder if LE has found any evidence of her working in the sex trade...and if it's possible that the mystery man from London was paying her for 'sex chats'??

 

[Virgogalsue]

I don't believe that was their income, I think it's possible he was receiving 'cash in hand' payments. The figure is way too low.

ETA: Oh rent! Good point.

Does anyone know what the average rent would be on a 3 bedroom bungalow in Hickory???

 

[Peliman]

Peli, there were a few posts back aways speculating that perhaps Zahra's body may have been found and LE was keeping mum...I could have sworn that while following a case here (not sure, but I believe it was Caylee's) that I had read that LE could not withhold that fact that a body had been found..at least from the family..once the deceased had been identified. Do you know whether that's true or not?

I'm going to give you a political answer and that is, I know of no law stating they have to. However there maybe one I'm unaware of and it seems like any work/police manual would say so.

If no law can be cited then it would not be illegal but it could be considered bad ethically/morally.

In this case without a body a positive ID (recovered remains/blood) could take weeks for a positive DNA verification. I don't think they'll make any statement until they have a positive ID. That's only one mans opinion.

Lets bring in the lawyers.

 

[tiredblondy]

I am almost certain that Z was dead by Friday afternoon[the 8th]..and to be even more specific I believe that it sometime btwn Thurs day[the 7th]-Friday[the 8th] evening that she was killed...

I think if she had been killed any earlier than that you wouldve had Elisa calling Brittany before Friay evening to beg to drop charges...Elisa wouldve wanted as much time as possible[before the charges began their course of action], which in turn if Britney didnt agree to drop them that she was gonna need every minute of time available her in order to get together the "story of how Z disappeared"..

I believe it happened between late Thursday night[7th] ~TO~ Friday evening[8th] when she contacted BB to drop charges...

I totally agree Smooth unless she killed Zahra in a fit of rage because Brittany would not drop the charges.

 

[tiredblondy]

I'm going to give you a political answer and that is, I know of no law stating they have to. However there maybe one I'm unaware of and it seems like any work/police manual would say so.

If no law can be cited then it would not be illegal but it could be considered bad ethically/morally.

In this case without a body a positive ID (recovered remains/blood) could take weeks for a positive DNA verification. I don't think they'll make any statement until they have a positive ID. That's only one mans opinion.

Lets bring in the lawyers.

Just to clarify...LE not releasing the information to the public that they have found a body.
At some point we discussed this in Kyron's forum. Can't remember exactly where or when. Maybe Passion or Caliope does but someone had noted a couple of cases here on Websleuths where this had happened.

So I guess all I'm saying is it has happened. Now if I could just remember when or who.:waitasec:..no use ..it's too late at night!