NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #21

[sarx]

Transfer scent can also explain dogs hitting in a bunch of places.

 

[netsleuther]

It didn't seem like a good time to get all parental and get Zahra a new mattress out of loving concern of any kind. No, something bad must have been on the old mattress, IMO.

.....

And the homeschooling plan, what reasons would EB have for wanting to homeschool Z?

 

[Paige SC]

It didn't seem like a good time to get all parental and get Zahra a new mattress out of loving concern of any kind. No, something bad must have been on the old mattress, IMO.

.....QUOTE]

And the homeschooling plan, what reasons would EB have for wanting to homeschool Z?[/quote]

She never registered her for homeschooling. She pulled her out of regular school to conceal the abuse.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Transfer scent can also explain dogs hitting in a bunch of places.

TY! That's really what I was wondering..whether it was the mattress, blankets..or even a murder weapon and one vehicle used to dispose of a body and one was used to dispose of other items w/decomp.

sarx...or anyone else that may know...once a body was found, I was under the impression that LE had to notify next of kin once it had been positively identified..anyone know if that's true?

 

[SmoothOperator]

I am almost certain that Z was dead by Friday afternoon[the 8th]..and to be even more specific I believe that it sometime btwn Thurs day[the 7th]-Friday[the 8th] evening that she was killed...

I think if she had been killed any earlier than that you wouldve had Elisa calling Brittany before Friay evening to beg to drop charges...Elisa wouldve wanted as much time as possible[before the charges began their course of action], which in turn if Britney didnt agree to drop them that she was gonna need every minute of time available her in order to get together the "story of how Z disappeared"..

I believe it happened between late Thursday night[7th] ~TO~ Friday evening[8th] when she contacted BB to drop charges...

 

[madelyn]

I agree with everything you have said.

I wanted to add to it, and I hope you don't mind because LE has identified this as a homicide investigation and IMHO they wouldn't have done that prematurely and/or arbitrarily.

That is where statute comes in and how Homicide is defined:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_6.html

It's not for us to interpret beyond face value unless one of us reading here is a Lawyer. JMHO.

Also we have the complication of possible child abuse and how that effects charges within NC...JMHO.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-318.4.html
definition of felony child abuse in NC.

I"m still looking for the statute that applies to a child that dies as a possible result of child abuse?

Anyone can help me I appreciate it so much! (I'm cooking dinner, it's 4:15ish PM here).

Because some states have provisions whereby if a child dies as a direct result of child abuse as defined by that state then the charge of homicide can be upgraded automatically to 1st Degree Murder.

I don't know if NC does this....

Thanks for any help!

All JMHO.

Thx Kat. I'm leaning your way now. Cops don't get tearful at the drop of a hat. They've gotta have ev that she is deceased. May her soul rest in peace!
In some states, death via or during abuse would elevate the crime to "murder with special circumstances," as would the fact that the victim is a child, and possibly that the child is handicapped. The "special circumstances" tag would allow LE to seek cap punishment for the convicted. This is why all the elements of Zahra's daily life matter. LE wants to know; was she being abused/ was she being victimized in any way/ were evil adults using her for monetary gain or in sexually depraved ways/ etc.
If this plays out where EB claims, "Okay, look, I panicked when she died of the flu in her bed. Assumed all would think the worst, so I made up a crazy story. She's buried at location xyz." IF she could convince a jury along those lines, she'd possibly see daylight within a few years. Stranger things have happened. However, if special circumstances can be proven, and a jury buys LE's claims in that vein, then....... we can fire up the chair and make our planet a better place through the wonder of electricity.
Thx again for your thoughts. You keep me on my toes K.
--M

 

[lauriej]

we know a tearful officer changed a child search to a homicide investigation.


from the clues provided by media and le at this time we might not even have a homicide, i.e. without any proof, step-mom could say she died of the flu, etc. etc. etc. and without any other evidence, that is not a homicide.

...if step-mom said she died of the flu------they would ask step-mom to then provide directions to the body.

...as in the kc anthony case-----there was no body, but she was still indicted for 1st degree murder.

...LE already has circumstantial evidence against SM---the fact that no-one saw the child lately, the claims of abuse, the ransom note.....etc.

 

[passionflower]

Your train of thought is similar with mine... The prosthetic leg would bear no importance of what happened to Z..She of course could be alive and 100% well and the leg be found ..It would not change, nor tell anything about what happened to Z...except if it incriminating evidence on it such as a large amount of blood[located in its crevices] LE would question that upon taking it apart and/or analyzing it that Zs blood were found in the crevices that could not be gotten to, why would this be present, or if it had been attempted to have been burned[of course unsuccessfully], LE would question why would her prosthetic have attempted to be burned, or if perhapscIt being broken, chipped, or otherwise while it was used as a weapon[as some have alluded to it having beemn used as a weapon]...Other than any of those reasons stated above I do not believe the leg would be directly indicative of anything other than it was not where it should be[i.e. the child with the amputation{of course Z}]..

But AB specifically mentioning more than once in the 911 call makes it apparent he wants it known that the prosthetic IS NOT THERE...tho no mention of her hearing aids... Possibly LE did find it in or around one of the properties...and are holding onto it and not letting it leak that they indeed do have her leg...

Perhaps waiting for just the right moment[maybe when heavy interrogating AB or EB] and then letting them know they have the leg and where they had found it...to get them to crack..because other than the reason to "cover up" the truth of what happened to Z there would be no way for either to explain they're having hidthe leg...KWIM???

I hope that makes sense what I just stated above...my mind is tired at the moment..

My thoughts exactly!!!! BBM

 

[luvmyboys2]

There are so many places in the Pisgah National Forest to hide a body or evidence, such as a mattress etc.....and anyone familiar with the area would know this. EB has lived in this area for how long??? Do you really think, if she is involved, that she would pick an area close to any residence she occupied in the last 2 years? Possibly, but....

In my opinion, I think she would travel the 20 to 30 minutes it would take her to get to an isolated area. I have taken many road trips in the area north and west of Hickory/Hudson/Lenoir doing genealogy and the area there in the Pisgah National Forest is very isolated. Also having lived in the area 2 years ago, I recall a place off of Drag Strip Rd. in Hudson, that is a former landfill that is no longer in use??? It is located northwest of Dudley Shoals.

These are just a few thoughts running through my mind the last few days....sorry if I have stated anything inappropriate to this forum...I'm a newbie. :waitasec:

 

[netsleuther]

There are so many places in the Pisgah National Forest to hide a body or evidence, such as a mattress etc.....and anyone familiar with the area would know this. EB has lived in this area for how long??? Do you really think, if she is involved, that she would pick an area close to any residence she occupied in the last 2 years? Possibly, but....

In my opinion, I think she would travel the 20 to 30 minutes it would take her to get to an isolated area. I have taken many road trips in the area north and west of Hickory/Hudson/Lenoir doing genealogy and the area there in the Pisgah National Forest is very isolated. Also having lived in the area 2 years ago, I recall a place off of Drag Strip Rd. in Hudson, that is a former landfill that is no longer in use??? It is located northwest of Dudley Shoals.

These are just a few thoughts running through my mind the last few days....sorry if I have stated anything inappropriate to this forum...I'm a newbie. :waitasec:

Would it be possible to find traces of dirt, mud, branches etc under the vehicles which might match another location

 

[Paige SC]

Would it be possible to find traces of dirt, mud, branches etc under the vehicles which might match another location

Yes, absolutely.

 

[shefner]

Welcome to WS, luvmyboys2!

 

[Paige SC]

EB has lived in this area for how long??? Do you really think, if she is involved, that she would pick an area close to any residence she occupied in the last 2 years? Possibly, but....

I just don't know if I think she's smart enough to think like a regular killer? I mean, why start a fire in your OWN front yard (trying to destroy evidence) and then report your kid missing? Why report the kid missing AT ALL? Doesn't seem to me anyone would have noticed she was ever gone? No one cared about her. And then the whole ransom note issue - that was REALLY, REALLY DUMB.

 

[Kat]

...if step-mom said she died of the flu------they would ask step-mom to then provide directions to the body.

...as in the kc anthony case-----there was no body, but she was still indicted for 1st degree murder.

...LE already has circumstantial evidence against SM---the fact that no-one saw the child lately, the claims of abuse, the ransom note.....etc.

Colored and bolded respectfully by me

As for the blue portion that is why I was doing some snooping in the appeals and convictions of those that were convicted in the state of NC where there were no remains but the corpus delicti rule applied. I was just trying to get a feel of how it goes in NC, it's not important to Zahra's investigation as of yet. Not unless she isn't eventually found during the course of this investigation JMHO.

As for the bolded part. Yup I agree they do, and what we know so far would more than likely be enough to get a homicide conviction if they have the right SA.

I think the most important evidence and information is what LE has not shared with us and more than likely won't before trial (if and when it goes).

KWIM? I bet they have a boatload of circumstantial and direct evidence to link EB directly to whatever happened to Zahra. She better come clean and soon, because it's not the wisest choice to face down a murder charge when it could have been legally defined as manslaughter or etc...

Which leads me to believe, that she being cagey and somewhat of a con artist that she more than likely did "murder" Zahra by NC statute definition. KWIM?

Who knows? Thanks for entertaining my curiosity all All JMHO as always.

 

[netsleuther]

There are so many places in the Pisgah National Forest to hide a body or evidence, such as a mattress etc.....and anyone familiar with the area would know this. EB has lived in this area for how long??? Do you really think, if she is involved, that she would pick an area close to any residence she occupied in the last 2 years? Possibly, but....

In my opinion, I think she would travel the 20 to 30 minutes it would take her to get to an isolated area. I have taken many road trips in the area north and west of Hickory/Hudson/Lenoir doing genealogy and the area there in the Pisgah National Forest is very isolated. Also having lived in the area 2 years ago, I recall a place off of Drag Strip Rd. in Hudson, that is a former landfill that is no longer in use??? It is located northwest of Dudley Shoals.

These are just a few thoughts running through my mind the last few days....sorry if I have stated anything inappropriate to this forum...I'm a newbie. :waitasec:

I looked at google maps and thought about the time frame that was reported by AB the 2:30am and then the fire at 5:00am if someone had taken Z and removed her from the home in that timeframe there would be up to 150 minutes and halve that for a return trip i.e. 75 minutes each way with no time to spare. If you take off 20 minutes for time to think where to go or time to dispose of a body, there is roughly an hour each way. The highway would be the best option to get to a shorter distance leaving plenty of spare time to be home long enough to light a fire and call the FD.

I think your 20-30 minutes sounds likely IMO but maybe a quick dash as far away as possible could be just as likely assuming the destination was already planned.

Now I wonder if a location may have been searched for using EB's home computer and maps or if there are traffic cameras the vehicles may have passed.

 

[Reannan]

You know... I keep wondering about the fire and the ransom note. Up until the release of AB's 911 call, the fire didn't make sense to me. After listening to the 911 call, I decided that perhaps the fire and ransom note were an elaborate scheme to stage the disappearance of Zahra. Let's say that you KNOW your daughter is gone/dead.... you have to explain it to the outside world - so, you stage a fire (gives an opportunity for abduction), and you write a stupid ransom note to the wrong family (evidence you are setting up a mistaken identity scenario). The big question is WHY that day??? What was going on - or going to go on, that made them realize they needed to "stage" a fake abduction???

 

[netsleuther]

I just don't know if I think she's smart enough to think like a regular killer? I mean, why start a fire in your OWN front yard (trying to destroy evidence) and then report your kid missing? Why report the kid missing AT ALL? Doesn't seem to me anyone would have noticed she was ever gone? No one cared about her. And then the whole ransom note issue - that was REALLY, REALLY DUMB.

It's puzzling that EB would report the fire instead of letting it burn as long as possible.

 

[Kat]

If anyone is remotely interested and wants to read this later---

Charley Project has a page on their website that lists convictions where the remains of the victim were never found.

http://www.charleyproject.org/corpus/list1.html

 

[Reannan]

It's puzzling that EB would report the fire instead of letting it burn as long as possible.

The fire was set so that they could use their time outside with LE to explain when the kidnappers came in and took Zahra. They waited until latter in the day to call and say Zahra was missing, but they stupidly thought they could make it look like she was taken in a case of mistaken identity during the fire. Idiots.....

 

[imamaze]

Welcome to all of our new members! Glad your here with us.