NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #21

[pudd]

Come on folks, EB = Elisa, the stepmom. AB = Adam, the dad. I think some of us are using the wrong initials and it's not helping.

 

[Paige SC]

Paige, I am scared that it is exactly something of this sort... I think that as mentioned earlier there has been a great deal of blood evidence found in that home, on the bedrails, on the headboard, luminol showed a very horrendous picture of the amount of blood... I have seen cases be turned to homicides because of the amount of blood found... I think the know that when they have the right mattress thry'll be no mistaking it[because of the amount of blood that they know will be found on it]...

IMO this is why they are so sure at this time they have NOT FOUND ZAHRAS ORIGINAL MATTRESS...

******This last part is ONLY MY OPINION~ I really really have a feeling that LE ALREADY HAS THE PROSTHETIC LEG...as I said OJMO, but I truly do think this...and that its already been verified thru the dr records cross matching the legs serial number....

I am with you but why in the HE double L wouldn't the freaking house be taped off as a crime scene?? I just can't get OVER that!!!

 

[Paige SC]

Alright, there seems to be a real focus on the importance of her prosthetic leg. If LE has it, and aside from forensic evidence on it, why is the leg such a crucial piece of evidence? What could it establish that couldn't be explained away in some lame fashion?

 

[Skully]

http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/

very interesting!!!

I really enjoyed reading this paper! Could you link it in the Kyron Horman case for others to read? I don't know what thread it would go in, but it is an excellent tool for us to use.

 

[voominvava]

I wonder if they were burning the mattress that morning .....

 

[passionflower]

Alright, there seems to be a real focus on the importance of her prosthetic leg. If LE has it, and aside from forensic evidence on it, why is the leg such a crucial piece of evidence? What could it establish that couldn't be explained away in some lame fashion?

murder weapon maybe????

 

[passionflower]

I really enjoyed reading this paper! Could you link it in the Kyron Horman case for others to read? I don't know what thread it would go in, but it is an excellent tool for us to use.

will do, thanks

 

[shefner]

I wonder if they were burning the mattress that morning .....

I would doubt it since LE did remove a twin mattress and box springs from the house, supposedly from Zahra's room. But EB and AB could have had two twin beds in the room and destroyed one and left the other, telling LE that the remaining bed was Zahra's when in fact, the missing bed was Zahra's.

This case is driving me nuts....where is this child? What did they do?

 

[simlyme]

I am with you but why in the HE double L wouldn't the freaking house be taped off as a crime scene?? I just can't get OVER that!!!

My opinions only.
I dont believe Zahra made it to that house, thats why earlier I asked for move out,move in dates.Anyone?
They got what they needed out of there, the bed rails,"new" matress, and probably a few other items belonging to Zahra.

If that house had any question to it at all ,it would be locked & sealed.
No way it would be left for anyone to get to.
Remember a couple of nights ago AB went in & got his belongings,
ALOT has been said and revealed in the last few days that no one is privy to.

 

[Paige SC]

murder weapon maybe????

I must say, that has never crossed my mind. I truly hope not. I'd rather a hatchet or a butcher knife than to think about the possibility this poor baby was beaten to death with her own leg.

 

[voominvava]

I would doubt it since LE did remove a twin mattress and box springs from the house, supposedly from Zahra's room. But EB and AB could have had two twin beds in the room and destroyed one and left the other, telling LE that the remaining bed was Zahra's when in fact, the missing bed was Zahra's.

This case is driving me nuts....where is this child? What did they do?

Ditto! I was just thinking if LE (not sure if this is fact or WS suspicion) is looking for a mattress in the landfill .. perhaps the reason they are not finding it is because it was burned in that "fire".

 

[Paige SC]

My opinions only.
I dont believe Zahra made it to that house, thats why earlier I asked for move out,move in dates.Anyone?
They got what they needed out of there, the bed rails,"new" matress, and probably a few other items belonging to Zahra.

If that house had any question to it at all ,it would be locked & sealed.
No way it would be left for anyone to get to.
Remember a couple of nights ago AB went in & got his belongings,
ALOT has been said and revealed in the last few days that no one is privy to.

OK, but I don't think LE had enough time or resources involved to check their other previous 4 locations before rendering this a homicide? Did they?

Of course, we are all just speculating and thinking aloud. It's about all we CAN do at this point! LOL

 

[Paige SC]

Also, do we know if ANY of their previous homes/apts have been officially taped off??

 

[Pondering Mind]

I kept trying to find where I had heard and had the impression he was not at home much because of work. This is interesting what was asked about this to News 14...
Zahra Baker Questions to News 14 Carolina
Where do you get that Adam was out of town working and when he came home..did you listen to the 911 call, he was there for the fire. That's not all what happened, and you should fact check before answering these questions. Terrible reporting. You should be ashamed.
In the beginning, it was reported the parents last saw her at 2:30 am. Then as questions began to surface around that timeline, people close with the investigation and the family, said Adam was out of town working and when he returned, that's when his wife, Elisa, came running out of the house to tell him Zahra was missing. In fact, Adam Baker said that in an interview with Good Morning America also.

GMA: Zahra Baker Case
On a recording of the second call obtained by ABC News, Adam Baker said that the last time he saw his daughter was at 2:30 that Saturday morning. But two days later on "Good Morning America," Adam Baker said that because of his work schedule, he hadn't seen the girl since Thursday. The girl's stepmother, Elisa Baker, was the last one to see her alive at 2:30 a.m. on Saturday, Adam Baker said.

bbm~

This is so very disturbing because this is straight out of his mouth..he hadn't seen her since Thursday..um maybe Tuesday (still can't get that stumble out of my mind)...not a reporter saying what AB said to possibly be misunderstood...it's straight from the horses mouth. Then we hear him again for ourselves on the 911 call saying WE saw her and continue on with the puberty/brooding/never see her unless she wants something ramble. I can not chalk that up to a cultural difference in speaking nor because he may be *slow* in some manner. H I N K Y.........if AB isn't complicit in Zahra's disappearance, then IMHO he knows what happened and was coached as to what to say and is lying to cover/protect either EB or himself and EB..

 

[Kat]

we know a tearful officer changed a child search to a homicide investigation.

remains must have been found and/or enough evidence to conclude that the child was deceased.

now le must collect evidence to prove homicide. and then le must further collect evidence to prove a specific charge of homicide.

le has no duty to disclose what evidence they have, or have collected. particularly when the media will sensationalize it and perhaps taint a potential pool of jurors.

from the clues provided by media and le at this time we might not even have a homicide, i.e. without any proof, step-mom could say she died of the flu, etc. etc. etc. and without any other evidence, that is not a homicide.

I agree with everything you have said.

I wanted to add to it, and I hope you don't mind because LE has identified this as a homicide investigation and IMHO they wouldn't have done that prematurely and/or arbitrarily.

That is where statute comes in and how Homicide is defined:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_6.html

It's not for us to interpret beyond face value unless one of us reading here is a Lawyer. JMHO.

Also we have the complication of possible child abuse and how that effects charges within NC...JMHO.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-318.4.html
definition of felony child abuse in NC.

I"m still looking for the statute that applies to a child that dies as a possible result of child abuse?

Anyone can help me I appreciate it so much! (I'm cooking dinner, it's 4:15ish PM here).

Because some states have provisions whereby if a child dies as a direct result of child abuse as defined by that state then the charge of homicide can be upgraded automatically to 1st Degree Murder.

I don't know if NC does this....

Thanks for any help!

All JMHO.

 

[passionflower]

Also, do we know if ANY of their previous homes/apts have been officially taped off??

IIRC the apts are already rented to new tenants.
I do think that LE checked the plces out though.
That is why I think she died in a car.......
LE did find blanket and pillow in a car and dogs hit on it............
in first days of Zahra missing.
No answers to that from LE either.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Alright, there seems to be a real focus on the importance of her prosthetic leg. If LE has it, and aside from forensic evidence on it, why is the leg such a crucial piece of evidence? What could it establish that couldn't be explained away in some lame fashion?

Your train of thought is similar with mine... The prosthetic leg would bear no importance of what happened to Z..She of course could be alive and 100% well and the leg be found ..It would not change, nor tell anything about what happened to Z...except if it incriminating evidence on it such as a large amount of blood[located in its crevices] LE would question that upon taking it apart and/or analyzing it that Zs blood were found in the crevices that could not be gotten to, why would this be present, or if it had been attempted to have been burned[of course unsuccessfully], LE would question why would her prosthetic have attempted to be burned, or if perhapscIt being broken, chipped, or otherwise while it was used as a weapon[as some have alluded to it having beemn used as a weapon]...

Other than any of those reasons stated above I do not believe the leg would be directly indicative of anything other than it was not where it should be[i.e. the child with the amputation{of course Z}]..

But AB specifically mentioning more than once in the 911 call makes it apparent he wants it known that the prosthetic IS NOT THERE...tho no mention of her hearing aids... Possibly LE did find it in or around one of the properties...and are holding onto it and not letting it leak that they indeed do have her leg...

Perhaps waiting for just the right moment[maybe when heavy interrogating AB or EB] and then letting them know they have the leg and where they had found it...to get them to crack..because other than the reason to "cover up" the truth of what happened to Z there would be no way for either to explain they're having hidthe leg...KWIM???

I hope that makes sense what I just stated above...my mind is tired at the moment..

 

[Pondering Mind]

You know, if 2 people were involved and one of them used one vehicle to dispose of Zahra's body and one used the other to dispose of a mattress (assuming of course that is where she died..man, that is hard to type ) that would be a simple explanation as to why the dogs hit on both vehicles, no?

 

[Paige SC]

IIRC the apts are already rented to new tenants.
I do think that LE checked the plces out though.
That is why I think she died in a car.......
LE did find blanket and pillow in a car and dogs hit on it............
in first days of Zahra missing.
No answers to that from LE either.

Never thought about this possibility either! And that brings up a whole slew of other questions to ponder. And when I think about it, it makes less sense than her dying in a house. Ugh. I wonder when we will know something more. (Of value, that is). And if she died in the car, why are they tracking on the mattress so hard?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Slightly OT, but I always thought this one would prove difficult to prosecute;

'The common‑law crime of suicide is hereby abolished as an offense. (1973, c. 1205.)'

:waitasec:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_6.html