NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #21

[SherlockHomey]

Something very simple just crossed my mind. The house in Hickory is very close to several businesses. I am sure one of the many businesses have surveillance cameras running. I wonder if LE checked that out and obtained some videos of the days and nights in question. They could have seen their cars coming and going because I am sure they would drive right past these businesses to get to the main road. I would be extremely interested in knowing this piece of information. This could place the times of the comings and goings (as AB said he was gone) in that house.

 

[passionflower]

Every day I come here, scared that I am going to read Zahras body has been found....And sick at heart that it hasn't. She needs to be at peace. You have touched my heart Z. and it's breaking for you and what you've had to endure.

We fall in love with children we do not even know.
I wish all of us could of adopted these children.
Then they would be safe, happy and we wouldn't have to
wonder where they are.
I get so furious, how babies are treated!!!!:furious: :banghead:

 

[Sherbie]

We had a lovely day today. Had a function near Asheville, so we spent the rest of the day in the mountains, taking in the beauty...still some great color. It was nice to step away for a while for something really pleasant and soul-renewing. The plight of these little angels can weigh so heavily on our hearts -- a little respite now and then is a good thing.

Thanks to everyone for all the discussion and info today...made it much easier to catch up for those of us who weren't here. Hubby has invited me to watch a movie, and I'm gonna take him up on it.

Night all! May tomorrow be the day sweet little Zahra comes home! :rose:

 

[passionflower]

Something very simple just crossed my mind. The house in Hickory is very close to several businesses. I am sure one of the many businesses have surveillance cameras running. I wonder if LE checked that out and obtained some videos of the days and nights in question. They could have seen their cars coming and going because I am sure they would drive right past these businesses to get to the main road. I would be extremely interested in knowing this piece of information. This could place the times of the comings and goings (as AB said he was gone) in that house.

You are so right.
Early I think LE said they were checking all videos.

 

[Hamsterdance]

Something very simple just crossed my mind. The house in Hickory is very close to several businesses. I am sure one of the many businesses have surveillance cameras running. I wonder if LE checked that out and obtained some videos of the days and nights in question. They could have seen their cars coming and going because I am sure they would drive right past these businesses to get to the main road. I would be extremely interested in knowing this piece of information. This could place the times of the comings and goings (as AB said he was gone) in that house.

Yes, it was one of the first things they did, thankfully:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39615768

By NewsChannel 36 Staff
WCNC WCNC
updated 10/11/2010 3:45:20 PM ET 2010-10-11T19:45:20


"The FBI is involved in the investigation, and police have collected surveillance video from businesses near the family's home and used dogs to search the neighborhood."

 

[Kat]

The chief most definitely stated at that presser that it had changed from a missing person to a homicide investigation.

As far as corpus delicti, I think there just has to be sufficient proof of a crime in order to charge someone...but I don't think it applies to terminology for the status of the investigation. Let us know what you find...sounds interesting!

I'm still having a looksee just because each state is different most of the time.

I just wanted to make sure before I did any digging what I was digging for LOL

I know you know this, but we are using the word murder here interchangeably, as we chat (at least I have while shooting the breeze), with homicide.

Homicide does not always equate murder of any degree (not directed at you just throwing that out there in case any guest may not know that!).

Here are a couple of things I'm looking at:

1. Appeals of convictions where the body had not been located (murder of varying degrees).

2. Sentences of those convicted of murder (varying degrees) where the body was not located.

IMHO, they are building a case for homicide. Which charge under the homicide statute I have no idea.

Just satisfying my own curiosity. It's of no importance at this moment.

Anyone had the time to look at what kind of sentencing EB is looking at with her current charges if she is convicted? TIA.



(all of the above is JMHO at this time)

 

[SherlockHomey]

Thanks all. This is good to know. I knew they would do that but just had to get that out. Did they ever say if they found anything on those videos? No, of course not, right?

 

[Hamsterdance]

Thanks all. This is good to know. I knew they would do that but just had to get that out. Did they ever say if they found anything on those videos? No, of course not, right?

I hadn't heard or read if they did, so I guess they must be keeping that info to themselves. Either they came up with nothing relevent, or maybe they feel that it may hamper the investigation.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Zahra Baker Timeline

Prior to March 2009
Nothing.

March 2009 to June 2009
3rd Grade:
Hudson Elementary
Hudson (Caldwell Co.) NC


Late Summer 2009
According to Marshall Fairchild, his daughter
Elisa moved out of his home around this
time ("more than a year ago") after a
dispute. He has not seen Zhara
since then.

Note: Marshall Fairchild lives less than 2 miles
from the Baker's present house{2121st NW Ave}.
Her father's is the address shown for Elisa on her current
incarceration record. He blames "drugs" for for
Elisa's behavior

August 2009 to March 2010
Most of 4th grade:
Granite Falls Elementary
Granite Falls (Caldwell Co.) NC

March 2010 to June 2010
Remainder of 4th Grade:
Back at Hudson Elementary

March or April 2010
Adam starts work at Real Tree Services,
on Hartland Road, near Morganton.

May 2010
(Date not certain)
Elisa's family reports suspicions
of abuse to DSS.

Note: Early Oct. 2010, the
Bakers' former neighbor in
Hudson recalls that a male DSS
investigator visited Elisa "several
months ago."

May 10,2010
Zhara is fitted for a free hearing aid
at the Charlotte Motor Speedway.
Elisa tells reporters that the school
informed her about the program.
Zhara does not appear to have a
black eye or obvious bruising.

May 13, 2010
An incident involving Brittany
occurs which results in charges for
"communicating threats" (against
Elisa and Adam) and "assault
w/deadly weapon" (against Adam).
Brittany recalls that this incident
occurred "right after" the family had
reported the abuse allegations
to DSS.

Note: County rap sheet shows
the Bakers' address as 4100 Phillip in
Hudson at the time.

August 2010
Zhara was pre-enrolled for 5th grade
at Hudson Elementary,
but never showed up for school.

Note: In several conversations,
the school warned the parents that Zhara
legally must attend school. Elisa informed
the school that Zhara was to be home-
schooled now.

Since August 2010
There is no record of Zhara being enrolled
in any home-school program in NC.

(Date unknown)
Neither Elisa nor Adam showed up for
their court date(s) for the May 13
charges. Warrants were issued.

Late August/Early September
Two possibly related events occurred:
(1) (Per Brittany) Elisa was placed on
the Top Three "Most Wanted" list for
Caldwell County.
(2) The Bakers moved across the river,
to Catawba Co., into a home which
has been reported to belong to Mark
David Coffey.

Note: Mark Coffey is reported
to be Adam's "boss." The fake ransom
note, which mentioned his daughter
and a son, was addressed to him.

Friday, October 8, 2010
Brittany says Elisa called her Friday night
and asked her to withdraw "the charges."
(Meaning the criminal complaint? or
the child abuse allegations?)
Brittany refused. Elisa was
very upset.

Saturday, October 9, 2010
Within the next few hours, events began
to unfold: the fire, the ransom note, the
2pm 911 call to report Zhara "missing,"
the arrest of Elisa, the continuing
investigation.

ETA~ Timeline copy/pasted...with details added

 

[Mrs G Norris]

From page 19

In these cases the body of the victim – missing person have not been recovered and there is no trace of the victim or the body despite a very thorough and extensive police investigation. Nevertheless, the police contend that the unlawful killing can be proved beyond all reasonable doubt through the circumstances of the disappearance, and the conduct of the accused both before and after disappearance. The questions of Motive, Opportunity, Preparatory Steps and subsequent actions of an accused should be considered in all cases.

http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/tips.pdf

 

[passionflower]

Maybe Zahra was killed the same day as the move???
So dogs would not hit in any house?
Was she killed or die in a car???
Dogs hit on 2 cars, IIRC.
1 car had gasoline all over it...........
and 1 car is missing????? monte carlo???
So they threw out her old mattress the day of move and bought new one to cover up???

 

[lauriej]

Something very simple just crossed my mind. The house in Hickory is very close to several businesses. I am sure one of the many businesses have surveillance cameras running. I wonder if LE checked that out and obtained some videos of the days and nights in question. They could have seen their cars coming and going because I am sure they would drive right past these businesses to get to the main road. I would be extremely interested in knowing this piece of information. This could place the times of the comings and goings (as AB said he was gone) in that house.

...at approx. 5:30 of this interview, the Chief talks about checking surveillance video in the area etc.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sea...tab=9482930&section=1206852&playlist=11128107

 

[Paige SC]

I mean they were adamant about that they were not looking for a body in that landfill.[/b].why not? why would they not believe that possibly her body was in that landfill? unless they already knew exactly what had become of her body,,,kwim???

Perhaps they aren't looking for a *body* persay.. maybe they are looking for body *parts*? Or perhaps they know enough to establish the manner of death and a full body recovery just isn't possible? See, unless it's something truly sinister like dismembering, I just don't think these people are smart enough to hide a body THAT WELL. At first, I thought they had enough time to dispose of her body (if it had been a month or better) but I think this was a hasty murder fueled by the rage of a meth head. And if they did dismember her, they had to do it in the yard because there's no way you can pull that off inside a home and not be arrested on the spot (body or not).

 

[Paige SC]

Someone also said cadaver dogs prove a murder took place, but did we establish they were in fact cadaver dogs? The whole woodchipper issue turned out to be unrelated and those dogs were blood trackers, right? We never got a positive hit on a cadaver scent, did we?

 

[sweetmop]

We fall in love with children we do not even know.
I wish all of us could of adopted these children.
Then they would be safe, happy and we wouldn't have to
wonder where they are.
I get so furious, how babies are treated!!!!:furious: :banghead:

You are so right, passionflower! I feel the very same as you do. So many innocent children neglected and abused. So many people have children and don't even realize the blessings they have! It really really upsets me!!!
And poor little Zahra just wanted love so much! The 'evil stepmother' should have loved her, nurtured her, and enjoyed her! But she was too selfish and too just plain mean to do that! EB never ever realized the blessing she had and never cared.
I know evil, hate and meaness has been around us since time began, but I swear it seems these horrific crimes against innocent children just keep happening and they just get worse and worse with each case!

I do believe as many have said, that LE knows so much more than they have released to the public. I just hope arrests are made soon for those that murdered this little girl!

 

[sweetmop]

Someone also said cadaver dogs prove a murder took place, but did we establish they were in fact cadaver dogs? The whole woodchipper issue turned out to be unrelated and those dogs were blood trackers, right? We never got a positive hit on a cadaver scent, did we?

I thought the cadaver dogs hit on the (2) cars. Or I am confused?:waitasec:

 

[SmoothOperator]

Someone also said cadaver dogs prove a murder took place, but did we establish they were in fact cadaver dogs? The whole woodchipper issue turned out to be unrelated and those dogs were blood trackers, right? We never got a positive hit on a cadaver scent, did we?

... But in addition to that news, they have stated that cadaver dogs hit on both parents' cars and they have doubts of ... Police took two samples of possible blood from one of the cars. ...

hang on and I'll post alink..BRB

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/zahra_baker_case/zahra_baker_questions/

The search warrant issued October 10, 2010 states that at 12:45pm the dog specializing in "recovery of persons and bodies" searched in and around the home and the vehicles on the property. It states:
"At approximately 1300 hrs..canine gave a positive alert for the presence of human remains in or on both vehicles." A silver Tahoe and a burgundy Camry. There is no indication on the search warrant who owned which car who who drove which car when

 

[pudd]

Someone also said cadaver dogs prove a murder took place

I'm not an expert, but I imagine cadaver dogs only pick up on decomp, and could tell if someone was dead, but not if it was murder, kwim?

 

[Paige SC]

I thought the cadaver dogs hit on the (2) cars. Or I am confused?:waitasec:

That's what they said but they also said that about the wood chipper. There was a discussion some 10 threads back about the actual type of dogs they were using and it was mentioned 'cadaver dogs' may have been used when, in fact, they were scent trackers or blood trackers (not the type of dogs trained in human decomposition)

 

[sweetmop]

That's what they said but they also said that about the wood chipper. There was a discussion some 10 threads back about the actual type of dogs they were using and it was mentioned 'cadaver dogs' may have been used when, in fact, they were scent trackers or blood trackers (not the type of dogs trained in human decomposition)

Oh geez... now I am confused!