NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #29

[believe09]

Here are two I could find:
Kim Mason, convicted June 2003 -- Mason was already awaiting trial for almost choking Hartanto Santoso to death when Santoso suddenly vanished in February 2001, leaving behind a blood-spattered apartment on the Eastside and distraught relatives in Indonesia.

Mason, a professional kickboxer who'd befriended Santoso when the two worked at a Kirkland nursing home, claimed his victim made unwanted sexual advances toward him.
Without a body, prosecutors had to rely on bloodstain evidence, an ex-girlfriend's testimony about Mason confessing, and other accumulated details. After a two-month trial, the jury found the accused guilty of aggravated murder.
Mason, son of a retired assistant Seattle police chief, got life in prison. King County Deputy Prosecutor Steve O'Toole said Mason may have come "closer than we ever could have possibly wanted to imagine" to getting away with it.

Ruth Neslund, convicted 1985 -- A congenial woman famed for her homemade sausage, Lopez Island resident Ruth Neslund was the wife of Rolf Neslund, a retired ship pilot who went missing in 1980.
His wife said he'd gone to Norway and never came back. Investigators, however, determined that, after an argument over money, Ruth shot her husband twice in the head on Aug. 8, 1980, then, with help from her brother, dismembered the body and burned it in her back yard.
An intensive study of blood-spatter evidence, a bloodstained revolver and bits of tissue helped prosecutors gain a murder conviction. Neslund died at age 73 at the women's prison near Purdy.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/179898_navyside29x.html

I had to italicize Ruth Neslund's crime for obvious reasons.

ETA: For those of you who missed the earlier threads, Helle Crafts case was also an excellent example of a (virtually) no body case involving blood stains and spatter in the home and a woodchipper.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helle_Crafts[/ame]

 

[SuziQ]

I will see if I can get you a link-I remember a no body case that luminol showed a massive area of blood spatter-floor, walls and ceiling. The room had been emptied on a move, but investigators could see the partial outline of the bedboard once they applied the luminol. The blood typed to the victim and a definitive statement could be made, IIRC, that no one could have survived that kind of blood loss. I will see what I can find.

Very interesting. I hope you find the case. I just watched a Dateline where LE knew there was a second perp involved because in the midst of blood spatter from a shotgun, there was a clean section of wall that outlined a standing person perfectly.

 

[NancyA]

But after reading what bio mom has written, (assuming she did write that)
she had "NO IDEA" he took her out of the Country. That she and her family were looking for the little Angel I cant make him out to be a good guy YET :no: you dont forge a passport and take your
kid away from Bio Mom......
So I am leaving my assessments about him open but I am leaning toward THIS was a done by both of them, they both knew what was going on, and they both need to be charge.
I am also open to change my mind because I still have not read everything.
RIP little angel :angel:

I understand why people are reluctant to condemn AB on what little we know so far and I try to keep an open mind BARD and all that but everything about this case makes it very hard for me to extend any kind of benefit of the doubt to AB.

here’s why he doesn’t get any free passes from me:

He was aware and involved when the decision was made to uproot his daughter from a secure, stable home and environment where all her educational and medical needs were met to another country where there was no assurance any of that would be in place.

He was aware and involved when the family moved 5 times in 2 years.

He was aware and involved when he and his wife were screaming and fighting so loud the neighbours could hear them.

He was aware and involved when bad checks were being written and passed.

He was aware that his wife and the people around her were using and dealing drugs.

He was aware and involved when people were being threatened with tazers and run off the road in cars.

He was aware and involved when Zahra was taken out of school to be ‘home-schooled’.

He was aware and involved in not ensuring Zahra had proper medical care and follow ups to monitor both her condition and her prosthesis.

So what did he think? That living in the above circumstances was conducive to the emotional or physical development and well-being of a child? Any child? Let alone his child who was in remission from not one but TWO bouts of cancer, hard of hearing and with a prosthetic leg? If he’s not guilty of the physical act of her murder or of actively helping cover up her murder, he’s guilty in my book of such an absolute dereliction of his parental duty to make his child’s welfare his number one priority that he might as well have murdered her with his own two hands. There is no excuse, maybe Grandma did take care of it all back in Oz but once he took her out of Grandma’s care, HE was in charge. If he didn’t know Zahra needed constant medical monitoring and follow ups it was his duty to FIND OUT. There is no excuse, custodial parents and guardians do not have the luxury of the level of disconnect/oblivion he has demonstrated, pleading ignorance doesn’t cut it as a moral or even a legal defence.

And then on another note, if a woman had done what he did (or rather didn’t do) does anyone honestly believe that woman would be getting a pass on the grounds ‘ ah poor thing she’s a bit slow, she probably didn’t know, she’s used to letting the men deal with all that stuff’? I don’t think so. MOO.

 

[luvmyboys2]

Woah, thanks for this.



This explains why the glowing was not continuous but wow, the entire room was glowing at some points?????

Here is a video that shows how luminol works. http://www.spike.com/episode/21997/st/2884128

 

[bellyup]

They put up the curtains because they saw Sherlockhomey's great pictures...and she hit on something big. Could the picture #75 actually show a hit with the luminol?

IMO those photos do not show enough to determine a "hit".
There are way too many things that react with luminol and UV to say what exactly is glowing in those photos.

As a side note, my daughter is having a glow / black light party next weekend. We've been playing with things for weeks seeing what glows, what doesn't, etc. Last night I had on a sweater I JUST BOUGHT and we were "testing" some materials to see if they glowed. My sweater had a HUGE HUGE stain that showed up under the black light. Looked as if someone either bled or vomited all over the front of it. Needless to say said sweater was removed and tossed in the trash.... it grossed me out.

Just to note other things that have glowed that we did not expect to.... Aquanet hair spray glows like crazy, saliva , one of our bedrooms PAINT glows with some strange "splatter" patterns it's rust colored to begin with (not something that typically glows and we built this house so I am fairly sure no one was killed in it), my husbands cologne glows on all his shirts.

And finally, we saw blood that had been VERY well cleaned up. My dog (as I've stated) had lymphoma and leukemia. Toward the end she developed a large mass on her leg. One day it started bleeding so I bandaged it and headed out to the car to take her in. In the process of getting into the car ... the bandage came loose and the wound started squirting. It was all over the garage floor and the backseat of the car.

I had it cleaned by a professional in the car and mopped the garage floor several times with bleach and a commercial grade disinfectant. It still shows up under black light. (which stinks because we are setting up this glow party in the garage and I can't get it off - it's obvious IMO that it's blood too. looks just like the photo attached)

 

[coffeemom]

I was wrong, the picture with the shoe is not on EB's myspace, it is here http://www.examiner.com/amber-alerts-in-national/zahra-baker-case-photos-video

 

[KikiWanBaniki]

Believe09, thanks very much! I think I must've heard about these cases at some point; until last year, I lived in WA, and VERY close to Lopez Island and Kirkland at different points over the last 20 years...

 

[Juno]

I was out at a concert with my young son last night so I was away from a computer from just before the presser at 4:30 until 9am this morning. I purposely did not listen to any news reports from the last 18 hours because if the news was bad, I wanted to find it out from my WS friends. It was killing me this morning not to know, but I held out. I have been reading since 9am to catch up and here I am, sad, but I have you all to lean on.

Thanks to all the locals who kept us all up to date. Peace be with sweet Zahra and all the LE involved in this case.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Call e a skeptic but there are too many holes in what was posted by biomom for it to make complete sense. If that IS in fact her .... there is still a lot more to the story that isn't being told IMO ....

I believe it is her according to Valhall who I have the utmost respect for, and who I think would not have verified her without being convinced of it herself.

See single post by Valhall
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5734624&postcount=117"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #28[/ame]


Sometimes sad realities do not make sense, and after reading 'bio mom's' post I see no reason to judge her, it sounds to me like she has suffered herself in the past few years, and since we don't actually know the circumstances, it is not for us to judge or question her until more information comes to light, if then IMO.

 

[NcMomma]

Go snuggle your sweet little one (and can i come tomorrow?)
I too hope she is found and properly put to rest. I fear there is no good outcome for Zahra, but I pray for closure for her biomom and so many others that are sending those warm beams of light to ensure this little one is found.

Sure...come along if you are anywhere near Asheville.....lol

 

[Yellow Rose]

Oh my goodness, thanks SO MUCH for all the WS locals with the wonderful information they have provided the rest of us! It goes beyond the pale! Good morning all! I must say I followed line by line last night until I could no longer stand it. I honestly felt like I was reading a horror story and had gotten to the parts that I couldn't stand so I quickly had to put the book down. I am completely drowning in sorrow for this young life lost. I pray she finds her home today....

 

[coffeemom]

I respectfully disagree. The upper item is certainly brown envelopes. The "shoe" you refer to would have to be infant / toddler sized. Look at it in relation to the size of the mans hand.

It was also on the prosthetic leg, so it must have been pretty small...

The pic I'm talking about is the one where she is sitting on the ground-- with cropped hair-- am I in my own little world here? Or does anybody else agree with me?

Sorry to obsess over the shoe Moving along.

 

[nobodyspecial]

Carpets are downright scary under blacklight. Also, ever see a hotel room under backlight? Ew.

Bellyup, that party sounds like fun!

 

[wfgodot]

Originally Posted by SuziQ
Aren't they! And SherlockHomey too. I love their hats. What are we calling Punk's hubby? besides

THEABSOLUTEBESTESTHUSBANDANDBOOTSONTHEGROUNDEVER!

LOL, Punky called her hub the HUBSTER in one post. :floorlaugh:

Her hubby sees so much, he could be called the Hubble Telescope.

 

[Lera213]

IMO those photos do not show enough to determine a "hit".
There are way too many things that react with luminol and UV to say what exactly is glowing in those photos.

As a side note, my daughter is having a glow / black light party next weekend. We've been playing with things for weeks seeing what glows, what doesn't, etc. Last night I had on a sweater I JUST BOUGHT and we were "testing" some materials to see if they glowed. My sweater had a HUGE HUGE stain that showed up under the black light. Looked as if someone either bled or vomited all over the front of it. Needless to say said sweater was removed and tossed in the trash.... it grossed me out.

Just to note other things that have glowed that we did not expect to.... Aquanet hair spray glows like crazy, saliva , one of our bedrooms PAINT glows with some strange "splatter" patterns it's rust colored to begin with (not something that typically glows and we built this house so I am fairly sure no one was killed in it), my husbands cologne glows on all his shirts.

And finally, we saw blood that had been VERY well cleaned up. My dog (as I've stated) had lymphoma and leukemia. Toward the end she developed a large mass on her leg. One day it started bleeding so I bandaged it and headed out to the car to take her in. In the process of getting into the car ... the bandage came loose and the wound started squirting. It was all over the garage floor and the backseat of the car.

I had it cleaned by a professional in the car and mopped the garage floor several times with bleach and a commercial grade disinfectant. It still shows up under black light. (which stinks because we are setting up this glow party in the garage and I can't get it off - it's obvious IMO that it's blood too. looks just like the photo attached)

so sorry about your puppy, and very good tips. I'm just putting things out there as I think of them. I'm always happy when other minds way in.

 

[Lera213]

Her hubby sees so much, he could be called the Hubble Telescope.

OH that was funny!

 

[sunsetbeach]

Kinda O/T
Hey Bellyup have you ever looked at your kitchen counter with your blacklight? If not you should try it. It may look clean to the naked eye but with that light you can see all kinds of stuff. I did this in a old house I used to live in and though it looked clean it wasn't.

 

[bellyup]

He was aware and involved when the decision was made to uproot his daughter from a secure, stable home and environment where all her educational and medical needs were met to another country where there was no assurance any of that would be in place.
I think many people from other countries think the US is the land of milk and honey. He may have easily thought things would be better for Zahra here.

He was aware and involved when the family moved 5 times in 2 years.
Once here, and the reality of financial hardship honed in.... this seems like it was ness. for survival.

He was aware and involved when he and his wife were screaming and fighting so loud the neighbours could hear them.
Couples fight. Sometimes loudly. Of course it's not the BEST situation for a child, but it happens. I've felt guilty for yelling in front of my kids. Doesn't mean that I would EVER harm them intentionally or would turn a blind eye toward abuse. In the "heat of the moment" sometimes things get too heated and on hindsight you realize OMG the kids might have heard that. KWIM ?

He was aware and involved when bad checks were being written and passed.
Again, needed because of the poverty.

He was aware that his wife and the people around her were using and dealing drugs.
I'm not sure we have evidence to support that he knew this. Though I SUSPECT he did.... I know all to well the feeling of "if it feeds my child it has to be done".

He was aware and involved when people were being threatened with tazers and run off the road in cars.
Again, something I am very unsure of. I do NOT buy anything out of BB's mouth ... and these were HER claims.

He was aware and involved when Zahra was taken out of school to be ‘home-schooled’.
I'm not sure on this one... BUT it is possible that either Zahra wasn't getting along well in school or EB said she wasn't and convinced him she was better at home. OR finances closing in made it seem like a good idea (ie; we won't have questions about her clothes, her lunches, her leg, her immunizations, etc.) I could see EB saying "Hon, we can't AFFORD to get her immunized and the school is starting to ask questions. Maybe we should just homeschool her. " or something along those lines.

He was aware and involved in not ensuring Zahra had proper medical care and follow ups to monitor both her condition and her prosthesis.
Again, I don't think we know that Zahra wasn't seen by doctors in the US so this is suspicion.

If he’s not guilty of the physical act of her murder or of actively helping cover up her murder, he’s guilty in my book of such an absolute dereliction of his parental duty to make his child’s welfare his number one priority that he might as well have murdered her with his own two hands.
Again, it's speculation. Maybe it was his number one priority and the only way he knew to do something about it was to get a job and work. There is heavy suspicion that she was here illegally so getting help from the government may not have been an option. Maybe he was doing all he thought to do??

My notes in purple above.....I'm not completely sure anything above is my firm opinion of what happened or what likely happened. I just prefer to give some benefit of the doubt until there is solid reason to believe otherwise. I've read many accounts that Adam would never hurt Zahra, that he did NOT use drugs and had fought with EB about her treatment of Zahra and while ignorance and poverty may not be an excuse or a pass... it certainly doesn't make him guilty of murder in my book.

 

[SuziQ]

Her hubby sees so much, he could be called the Hubble Telescope.

I love it!

 

[Norwegian]

Here are two I could find:
Kim Mason, convicted June 2003 -- Mason was already awaiting trial for almost choking Hartanto Santoso to death when Santoso suddenly vanished in February 2001, leaving behind a blood-spattered apartment on the Eastside and distraught relatives in Indonesia.

Mason, a professional kickboxer who'd befriended Santoso when the two worked at a Kirkland nursing home, claimed his victim made unwanted sexual advances toward him.
Without a body, prosecutors had to rely on bloodstain evidence, an ex-girlfriend's testimony about Mason confessing, and other accumulated details. After a two-month trial, the jury found the accused guilty of aggravated murder.
Mason, son of a retired assistant Seattle police chief, got life in prison. King County Deputy Prosecutor Steve O'Toole said Mason may have come "closer than we ever could have possibly wanted to imagine" to getting away with it.

Ruth Neslund, convicted 1985 -- A congenial woman famed for her homemade sausage, Lopez Island resident Ruth Neslund was the wife of Rolf Neslund, a retired ship pilot who went missing in 1980.
His wife said he'd gone to Norway and never came back. Investigators, however, determined that, after an argument over money, Ruth shot her husband twice in the head on Aug. 8, 1980, then, with help from her brother, dismembered the body and burned it in her back yard.
An intensive study of blood-spatter evidence, a bloodstained revolver and bits of tissue helped prosecutors gain a murder conviction. Neslund died at age 73 at the women's prison near Purdy.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/179898_navyside29x.html

I had to italicize Ruth Neslund's crime for obvious reasons.

ETA: For those of you who missed the earlier threads, Helle Crafts case was also an excellent example of a (virtually) no body case involving blood stains and spatter in the home and a woodchipper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helle_Crafts

Being Norwegian, I'm so embarrassed to read this.