Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[NothingClever]

What about something like a 55 gallon drum ? Many of those are turned into ' burn barrels'. Mechanics and wrecking yards would surely have access to them. Oh snape ! Now, I'm wondering if they checked ALL those cars!!!!! In theory, she could have been killed inside a car and all the blood would be there. No way did they check them all. But I wonder if they even checked any of them.

I wonder if a cadaver dog would have picked up on that? Didn't they use one for this case?

 

[SCHMAE]

This "making a murder bandwagon" everyone speaks of is very annoying. First of all, the documentary doesn't make any claims with regards to SA's guilt or innocence. They are showing us the corruption that went on to get the guilty verdict in both cases. This isn't about guilt or innocence. It's about corruption and the apparent ease with which LE and government officials can put anyone they want away for life.
Apparently there are some who either
1) can't see it (don't believe people in positions of trust and authority can be corrupt)
2) don't care (SA is substandard human and belongs in jail)

I just had a friend tell me this. They don't care if he's guilty or innocent because of the cat incident. I have a cat and love them as much as the next guy. I do believe that cruelty to animals leads to cruelty to humans. I do wish the laws were stricter on animal cruelty 20 yrs ago , but they were not. If they had given him 50 yrs for intentionally killing the cat, I think I would be delighted . But that is not the what this is about.

ETA ohmy, what have I done. Meant to quote coolj and utterly flubbed it. Sorry all.

 

[LemonMousse]

I don't think its inconceivable. If he was sweating with his hands perspiring when touching the key then his DNA could remove anyone's DNA which may have been there. What kind of DNA was found of his? A key fob is small and he looks like he has beefy hands.

Did Avery go down to the vehicle with her that was beside the road? Did the eye witness see him standing there as she took photos too?

tia

It is inconceivable that the key and fob had been used for years by one person, and all their DNA gets wiped off by one man with "sweaty" hands?

That's a reach, to say the least.

 

[NothingClever]

I don't think its inconceivable. If he was sweating with his hands perspiring when touching the key then his DNA could remove anyone's DNA which may have been there. What kind of DNA was found of his? A key fob is small and he looks like he has beefy hands.

Did Avery go down to the vehicle with her that was beside the road? Did the eye witness see him standing there as she took photos too?

tia

There are so many ridges and crevices on a key though...and not to mention the cracks in the plastic where the fob goes together or meets the key. If anything they should have found his dna along with hers. They can separate the profiles. I wouldn't think one would mask the other.

 

[shadowraiths]

[video=youtu;S9h5C901lGE]http://youtu.be/S9h5C901lGE[/video]​

 

[SCHMAE]

Wait, wait, wait.....if that key WAS a valet key, and these won't open trunks, then Steven can't have used it to put Theresa in there.

Does anyone know anything about valet keys? Everyone seems sure on Reddit...but I have never even heard of one, let alone seen one.

Anyone?

It's an SUV. You can reach the trunk area from the front of the vehicle and/ or there would be a trunk ' latch' you could pop to open the back up without a key. Or at least that has been the case in the SUV's I've been in .

 

[LemonMousse]

This "making a murder bandwagon" everyone speaks of is very annoying. First of all, the documentary doesn't make any claims with regards to SA's guilt or innocence. They are showing us the corruption that went on to get the guilty verdict in both cases. This isn't about guilt or innocence. It's about corruption and the apparent ease with which LE and government officials can put anyone they want away for life.
Apparently there are some who either
1) can't see it (don't believe people in positions of trust and authority can be corrupt)
2) don't care (SA is substandard human and belongs in jail)[/QUOTE]
I just had a friend tell me this. They don't care if he's guilty or innocent because of the cat incident. I have a cat and love them as much as the next guy. I do believe that cruelty to animals leads to cruelty to humans. I do wish the laws were stricter on animal cruelty 20 yrs ago , but they were not. If they had given him 50 yrs for intentionally killing the cat, I think I would be delighted . But that is not the what this is about.

ETA ohmy, what have I done. Meant to quote coolj and utterly flubbed it. Sorry all.

It's ridiculous, isn't it?

No doubt, back in '85, they'd have been saying, "Well, he killed a cat...that's all I need to know about him" as well.

He was innocent of that crime...and he could be innocent of this too. The cat is irrelevant to this case. I'm quite alarmed at how many people (potentially future jurors!) simply cannot grasp this basic logic.

Or don't want to.

 

[TheDuchess]

Apparently, the recovered key is a valet key...will open the door and start the car, but won't open the glove box or boot.

I wonder if there was anything from that day that Teresa put in the glove box....receipts, appointment addresses, that kind of thing.

If there were, then it proves the key she was using that day was not that one.

EDIT: Wait....if a valet key won't open the boot (trunk in US speak) how was she put in there?

Because it is a different key. The trunk was opened with her actual key that she was using to drive that car. If it can be proven that the key in evidence is NOT the key she used that day, you have a great case! You see, whoever opened that trunk would have had to have the original key and not the valet key. If I am not mistaken, there is usually a button located inside the glove box that pops the trunk, but again, the valet key would not open that.

If one could prove that the key that was found and put into evidence was in fact, a valet key, one would have a VERY compelling case that the key was planted.

 

[JanIreland]

excuse me ? is this a discussion board where people talk about their opinions ? there is no reason to get snappy because I decided to add in why I think he is a viable suspect as well as those you've mentioned ...I formed my opinion by sleuthing also ..or are we only allowed comment if we believe the conspiracy theories ?
And I don't profess to know he's guilty I believe the evidence points that way but I am not 100% either way

 

[LemonMousse]

Because it is a different key. The trunk was opened with her actual key that she was using to drive that car. If it can be proven that the key in evidence is NOT the key she used that day, you have a great case! You see, whoever opened that trunk would have had to have the original key and not the valet key. If I am not mistaken, there is usually a button located inside the glove box that pops the trunk, but again, the valet key would not open that.

If one could prove that the key that was found and put into evidence was in fact, a valet key, one would have a VERY compelling case that the key was planted.

That's the point.

On Reddit, someone found a manual for a 1999 Toyota RAV4 and it shows the two keys you get....a master (which is square) and a sub key (which is rounded).

The key in SA's bedroom was the rounded sub key.

 

[MaxManning]

Anyone who follows the Making a Murderer facebook page, there's a more detailed post about the Ryan/Mike finding the car theory. But it also kind of points the finger at Scott and Bobby!

Mods, please delete if not allowed:

https://www.facebook.com/makingamurderer/posts/1694677450779311

Not crazy.

I think the moved bones assertion by the defense is one of the strongest reasons to believe Avery is not the killer imo. I was glad to hear Strang mention that in the interview on that Kelly File interview.

I personally believe that Chuck or Earl are the more likely killers though, as they have far greater access to the junkyard as it's their job. Chuck and Earl both convicted previously of sex crimes and Earl "hid under some clothes" when police came to question him. I find that very bizarre. Earl knew that Teresa was coming that day.

 

[JanIreland]

Objection, relevance to this crime?

Sustained, stricken from record.

ridiculous reply considering what I was replying too

 

[MaxManning]

Because it is a different key. The trunk was opened with her actual key that she was using to drive that car. If it can be proven that the key in evidence is NOT the key she used that day, you have a great case! You see, whoever opened that trunk would have had to have the original key and not the valet key. If I am not mistaken, there is usually a button located inside the glove box that pops the trunk, but again, the valet key would not open that.

If one could prove that the key that was found and put into evidence was in fact, a valet key, one would have a VERY compelling case that the key was planted.

I think this is possibly very important, as you say. I do remember thinking that the key looked like a valet key. It also had that lanyard piece on it, which they had sister testify she gave that to teresa and she put her key on it. So maybe that's something the family/friends/co-workers might have told investigators ? Otherwise, how would they have known that it existed and put one on that key ?

Would love to know if someone can confirm that key was a valet key and what it would be capable of doing on that specific vehicle.

 

[LibertyandJustice4]

The thing that really gets me about this one is how hard it is to apply Occam's Razor. You can get wild with any theories on any case, but usually, the simplest explanation contains the truth. Here? Something wild had to have happened. I don't believe it was SA because I don't think he could have taken her off-site, happened to be in the trailer for a phone call with Jodi at exactly 5:30, gone back off-site and happened to have been back in time to take another phone call from Jodi and have a bonfire with Brendan later. There's just not enough time for all that moving around and it's quite complicated. In order for him to have done that, he would have had to held her somewhere and killed her later. Possible. Unlikely and unsubstantiated by any evidence, but there is an entire 4 days worth of evidence missing, so this is why I would say I'm at #3 on the poll.

For someone else on the compound to have done it, they would have had to have seen her and decided right then to commit a crime, then have the frame of mind to quickly figure out how to frame SA for it. Again, possible, but given the low IQs and poor impulse control, could they have really pulled it off? Especially with the police inadvertently helping them.

Then it's not a huge leap for us to say, well, she's probably told people she's been to the Averys before. If someone outside the compound was stalking her (ex bf, roommate, character we haven't met, or even a total stranger), they could have sort of planned it out, but still would have had to have acted last minute and known the property and comings and goings of other family members. How did no one on that property see or hear absolutely nothing? I can see them not seeing the RAV being up there, but not one of all those people heard screams? Saw a fire down at the quarry? Heard a gunshot? Nothing?

Not to mention other scenarios such as The German or maybe none of the above.

There's really no evidence for anything! I can't figure out which is the most likely scenario. I am thinking the simplest scenario for Colburn finding the vehicle early is that he was on the property and found it. I can't imagine LE set it up so much that they saw her and killed her or found her dead and purposefully framed SA. But who knows? Maybe they did. Makes as much sense as anything, I guess! There are just so many layers and so many people with motive to hurt SA who is not a savory character to begin with, and TH I am afraid has gotten lost in it all, which makes me sad.

 

[MaxManning]

It's an SUV. You can reach the trunk area from the front of the vehicle and/ or there would be a trunk ' latch' you could pop to open the back up without a key. Or at least that has been the case in the SUV's I've been in .

I agree. But knowing if that key is indeed a valet key is potentially important. If there is any way for someone to confirm that she used the valet key or not.

If she lost her master key and started using the valet key for example, then this is irrelevant.

But, suppose she gave her valet key to her brother who might use the car from time to time. Now you have to explain how that valet key ends up in avery's place.

 

[joedotnet]

Can you post a link to the original thread?

 

[stephsb]

The thing that really gets me about this one is how hard it is to apply Occam's Razor. You can get wild with any theories on any case, but usually, the simplest explanation contains the truth. Here? Something wild had to have happened. I don't believe it was SA because I don't think he could have taken her off-site, happened to be in the trailer for a phone call with Jodi at exactly 5:30, gone back off-site and happened to have been back in time to take another phone call from Jodi and have a bonfire with Brendan later. There's just not enough time for all that moving around and it's quite complicated. In order for him to have done that, he would have had to held her somewhere and killed her later. Possible. Unlikely and unsubstantiated by any evidence, but there is an entire 4 days worth of evidence missing, so this is why I would say I'm at #3 on the poll.

For someone else on the compound to have done it, they would have had to have seen her and decided right then to commit a crime, then have the frame of mind to quickly figure out how to frame SA for it. Again, possible, but given the low IQs and poor impulse control, could they have really pulled it off? Especially with the police inadvertently helping them.

Then it's not a huge leap for us to say, well, she's probably told people she's been to the Averys before. If someone outside the compound was stalking her (ex bf, roommate, character we haven't met, or even a total stranger), they could have sort of planned it out, but still would have had to have acted last minute and known the property and comings and goings of other family members. How did no one on that property see or hear absolutely nothing? I can see them not seeing the RAV being up there, but not one of all those people heard screams? Saw a fire down at the quarry? Heard a gunshot? Nothing?

Not to mention other scenarios such as The German or maybe none of the above.

There's really no evidence for anything! I can't figure out which is the most likely scenario. I am thinking the simplest scenario for Colburn finding the vehicle early is that he was on the property and found it. I can't imagine LE set it up so much that they saw her and killed her or found her dead and purposefully framed SA. But who knows? Maybe they did. Makes as much sense as anything, I guess! There are just so many layers and so many people with motive to hurt SA who is not a savory character to begin with, and TH I am afraid has gotten lost in it all, which makes me sad.

I can see a scenario w. Colburn seeing the car on the Avery property before having a search warrant, calling it in, immediately running on the assumption it was Steven (before he's even considered anyone else) and it just snowballing from there. The whole investigation is in question if they were looking for evidence that points to Steven, and trying to make evidence fit that theory. The investigation should look at the evidence, and let that lead them to a suspect, not the other way around like I think it did w. Steven's case.


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[LibertyandJustice4]

I don't think its inconceivable. If he was sweating with his hands perspiring when touching the key then his DNA could remove anyone's DNA which may have been there. What kind of DNA was found of his? A key fob is small and he looks like he has beefy hands.

Did Avery go down to the vehicle with her that was beside the road? Did the eye witness see him standing there as she took photos too?

tia

If there is sweat on his hands that got on the key, then he would have been wearing gloves and his fingerprints should be all over the car, too. That's why I don't really think much of the sweat DNA on the hood, either. If his gloves were off, he would have gotten fingerprints everywhere. The hood, the battery, the car itself. (And he wiped off the fingerprints but not the blood? I think not!)

 

[Deeptoad]

Can you post a link to the original thread?

Here ye be.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lix-to-stream-new-documentary-on-Steven-Avery

 

[LibertyandJustice4]

Wait, wait, wait.....if that key WAS a valet key, and these won't open trunks, then Steven can't have used it to put Theresa in there.

Does anyone know anything about valet keys? Everyone seems sure on Reddit...but I have never even heard of one, let alone seen one.

Anyone?

You can still open the trunk/boot with the button on the driver's side. There's usually a switch or something. One of my friends in college drove a RAV 4, same color and probably same year, and there wasn't anything odd about it. The button to open the rear wouldn't have been in the glove compartment, it would have been next to the driver's seat.