Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

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I watched the documentary finally,I felt like it was completely one sided. I will go with the unpopular opinion that it was film that left out details from the prosectution's side to help promote it's popularity with viewers. It did exactly what I believe it intended to do, gather interest due the conspiracy elements of it, and that's exactly why I can't take it seriously as a documentary film. IMO.
 
opppsss

[video=youtube;g_70mbCpnDE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_70mbCpnDE[/video]
 
There was another suspect though. Right from the beginning. I have no problem with the horrible corruption that went on in the rape case although I still believe he was found guilty based on PB id.


It was a suspect that the defense didn't know about , because they didn't even investigate.

At what point do you acknowledge that they have not fully investigated this case, and instead focused on one person.

Wasn't that exactly the same problem as the first case ?

You have no problem that they had the guilty guy pointed by others as a reasonable suspect and didn't even put him in the lineup ?

You have no problem that they get called by other law enforcement that had been tracking gregory allen and say he's the guy, and them ignoring that ?

You have no problem that in 2003 Gregory Allen confesses and they sit on that information because they feel they had the right guy ?

:/
 
Keep in mind that Steve Avery didn't even match the height/weight description of the rapist. Gregory Allen did.

Is it worth making sure ? By putting him in a lineup ? seriously, I'm amazed what they did could be seen as anything but unethical.
 
I don't see that has any link to what I asked.. If people here think he is innocent show me the other suspects.

I don't think anyone here has stated they think he is innocent. What has been stated numerous times is that he was not proven guilty BEYOND A RESONABLE DOUBT, and that can be laid at the door of LE and officials. Regardless of whether you think he is guilty or not, are you saying that that investigation and trial is how all investigations and trials should occur? That a conflict of interest is no big deal, and the the prosecution should shout to the world unfounded allegations before the investigation has even finished and before the trial has even begun? That it is fine for defense attorneys to collaborate with the prosecution in order to secure a conviction and leave their underage clients totally at the mercy of seasoned investigators with out being present? That is just the beginning of the total craziness I saw with my own eyes from the raw footage that the doc showed. Because of all that ( and much more, but I don't plan on making this essay length) I do believe that SA did NOT receive a fair trail and deserves a new one and BD should never have been charged, let alone convicted, on the flimsy evidence they had.

Also I don't know who killed her, but there were plenty of other suspects that SHOULD have been looked at as well. Here is my list beginning with all of the males that lived or were connected to that property that had criminal backgrounds similar to, or in some cases worse than SA:

1. Scott Tadych
2.Bobby Dassey
3.Earl Avery
4. Ryan Hillagas
5. Andres Martinez ( the man who took an ax to his girlfriend 5 days after TH disappearanceand recently made contact with Barb Dassey to tell her they didn't do it.)

I can probably go on, but that is a start. The police did not even consider any of these people and in fact placed Hillagas in the lead of a "special search". Unfathomable!
 
But then they have to kill her, Burn her on his property right at his back door, Hide her car, Get into the house and put the key in there. They have to Move her burnt bones in two other places in Averys yard.

IT is incredulous at best.

The bones were not just found in the Quarry, Barrel and in the burn pit. There were also charred bones thrown around the grass surrounding the pit. This would mean, He killed her, burned her body in the fire pit (that is behind his garage in a wide open space), then after it cools he takes her bones a few over here and a few over there in the grass. Then gonna take these two and move them to the quarry and take these few to the barrel. Gonna clean up all her DNA from everywhere but her own car (not clean up his own blood but clean up his prints. drive the car and place it where it can be found. DOUBLE PARKED and covered with the big branch arrow and hood, HERE I AM. right over here. Then take the plates off and instead of burning them with the camera, and other belongings he's gonna bend them up and stick them in the back of this here station wagon closer to his place. (station wagon look in the back there and see the plates no trunk that I recall on any station wagon I've been in). Clean up every spent bullet fragment but one and leave all the shells on the ground. none of them have a speck of blood splatter or her DNA on them, Place those back on the floor. Then wash her key for some reason, then touch it with his own DNA and leave it in an open shelf without any mysterious doors or draws where if it was in there would have been easily found on the first day of searching. not 3 days and 7 entries. DNA found no where other than a questionable bullet fragment in his garage 4 months later. Evidence pictures also show someone had access to that garage between Nov and Mar. When they go back in march a red car is in there.

I want to know why it was ok to deviate from protocol, something rarely done in cases was done in almost all protocol with the Avery case?

From the "Recusal" or to "recuse" oneself means to remove oneself from participation in a decision so as avoid a conflict of interest.

They knew SA was already making statements on News Media about being targeted by the MCSD. That is why they removed themselves from the investigation.

They were to recuse themselves to avoid not only impropriety but even the appearance of impropriety. Yet the remained participating in the case. They did not avoid the appearance of impropriety when they continued to be heavily involved in the case. 3 Manitowoc officers to 1 Calumet officer per team. Sounds like Calumet had the lead of babysitting.

I would like to know what the Judges job is when he is included in making a decision of having a special prosecutor and another county take over the case. Should he now recuse himself from Judging anything coming out of the investigation? He was knowing about this sensitive conversation and investigation, that happened between The county Sheriffs office and the county's DA office about the appearance of impropriety. As he did know the officers of the county recused themselves and then also allowed that evidence that was collected from the county, does this make him at all faulty in his duties? Seems like one of the judges seems he should have stepped down as well but did not.

Then they deviate from the way one would usually collect bone evidence at a crime scene and just shoveled her around. That's very sad. They could have done a better job for all involved. Why they didn't just makes me think they couldn't cause they were hiding something.

Then they find this amazing bullet 4 months later and the DNA analyst contaminates it. They refused Defense opportunity to be there, for said contamination then she does it herself. then she DEVIATES from protocol. In any other case that evidence on the bullet that was never said to be Blood, was inconclusive. But hey ill just talk to these men in the investigation and file this deviation and tada magic bullet, magic DNA for court.


Just my thoughts and opinions.
 
I don't think anyone here has stated they think he is innocent. What has been stated numerous times is that he was not proven guilty BEYOND A RESONABLE DOUBT, and that can be laid at the door of LE and officials. Regardless of whether you think he is guilty or not, are you saying that that investigation and trial is how all investigations and trials should occur? That a conflict of interest is no big deal, and the the prosecution should shout to the world unfounded allegations before the investigation has even finished and before the trial has even begun? That it is fine for defense attorneys to collaborate with the prosecution in order to secure a conviction and leave their underage clients totally at the mercy of seasoned investigators with out being present? That is just the beginning of the total craziness I saw with my own eyes from the raw footage that the doc showed. Because of all that ( and much more, but I don't plan on making this essay length) I do believe that SA did NOT receive a fair trail and deserves a new one and BD should never have been charged, let alone convicted, on the flimsy evidence they had.

Also I don't know who killed her, but there were plenty of other suspects that SHOULD have been looked at as well. Here is my list beginning with all of the males that lived or were connected to that property that had criminal backgrounds similar to, or in some cases worse than SA:

1. Scott Tadych
2.Bobby Dassey
3.Earl Avery
4. Ryan Hillagas
5. Andres Martinez ( the man who took an ax to his girlfriend 5 days after TH disappearanceand recently made contact with Barb Dassey to tell her they didn't do it.)

I can probably go on, but that is a start. The police did not even consider any of these people and in fact placed Hillagas in the lead of a "special search". Unfathomable!

Yes HE was. By the jury and that is the end of it.

I don't have to have a reasonable doubt. I do start with assumption of innocence but in this case the answer is simple for me.
 
The bones were not just found in the Quarry, Barrel and in the burn pit. There were also charred bones thrown around the grass surrounding the pit. This would mean, He killed her, burned her body in the fire pit (that is behind his garage in a wide open space), then after it cools he takes her bones a few over here and a few over there in the grass. Then gonna take these two and move them to the quarry and take these few to the barrel. Gonna clean up all her DNA from everywhere but her own car (not clean up his own blood but clean up his prints. drive the car and place it where it can be found. DOUBLE PARKED and covered with the big branch arrow and hood, HERE I AM. right over here. Then take the plates off and instead of burning them with the camera, and other belongings he's gonna bend them up and stick them in the back of this here station wagon closer to my place. (station wagon look in the back there and see the plates no trunk that I recall on any station wagon I've been in). Clean up every spent bullet fragment but one and leave all the shells on the ground. none of them have a speck of blood splatter or her DNA on them, Place those back on the floor. Then wash her key for some reason, then touch it with his own DNA and leave it in an open shelf without any mysterious doors or draws where if it was in there would have been easily found on the first day of searching. not 3 days and 7 entries. DNA found no where other than a questionable bullet fragment in his garage 4 months later. Evidence pictures also show someone had access to that garage between Nov and Mar. When they go back in march a red car is in there.

I want to know why it was ok to deviate from protocol, something rarely done in cases was done in almost all protocol with the Avery case?

From the "Recusal" or to "recuse" oneself means to remove oneself from participation in a decision so as avoid a conflict of interest.

They knew SA was already making statements on News Media about being targeted by the MCSD. That is why they removed themselves from the investigation.

They were to recuse themselves to avoid not only impropriety but even the appearance of impropriety. Yet the remained participating in the case. They did not avoid the appearance of impropriety when they continued to be heavily involved in the case. 3 Manitowoc officers to 1 Calumet officer per team. Sounds like Calumet had the lead of babysitting.

I would like to know what the Judges job is when he is included in making a decision of having a special prosecutor and another county take over the case. Should he now recuse himself from Judging anything coming out of the investigation? He was knowing about this sensitive conversation and investigation, that happened between The county Sheriffs office and the county's DA office about the appearance of impropriety. As he did know the officers of the county recused themselves and then also allowed that evidence that was collected from the county, does this make him at all faulty in his duties? Seems like one of the judges seems he should have stepped down as well but did not.

Then they deviate from the way one would usually collect bone evidence at a crime scene and just shoveled her around. That's very sad. They could have done a better job for all involved. Why they didn't just makes me think they couldn't cause they were hiding something.

Then they find this amazing bullet 4 months later and the DNA analyst contaminates it. They refused Defense opportunity to be there, for said contamination then she does it herself. then she DEVIATES from protocol. In any other case that evidence on the bullet that was never said to be Blood, was inconclusive. But hey ill just talk to these men in the investigation and file this deviation and tada magic bullet, magic DNA for court.


Just my thoughts and opinions.

It is far more probable that he moved them around than anyone else did. The burn pit is the place the body was burned and then They were most probably taken to other sites to spread it around to avoid detection better. It makes most sense that it was him.
 
No where that I no of...Nancy Grace has been screaming this from the rooftops and now people are taking it for fact. smh.

If you are saying I said it as a fact since I mentioned it in my prior post...... then you are mistaken. I clearly said in my post above 'if it is true..'
 
I don't care about the first case. I really don't. I concede the whole mess there..
But that is not the case here. I don't see it I see an guilty guy.

<modsnip>

When I see someone do something nefarious, I consider they just might do it again.

You see a guilty guy. noted. <modsnip>
 
I get it. Your mind is made up. That's pretty clear.

If you want to convince others to see things your way, you are going to have to consider things that an objective individual considers.

When I see someone do something nefarious, I consider they just might do it again.

You see a guilty guy. noted. What's left to discuss ?

If you don't see the connection between past behaviors and future behaviors, not worth going much further with this discussion.

But I'm sure someone else will bite on it next, so good luck with that :)

The problem is that people want to look at the police past behaviors and present but don't want to look at his.
He puts himself where her body was burned on the night she was last seen alive.

I am not making up my mind the evidence does it for me. I am not influenced by defense swagger.
 
Yes HE was. By the jury and that is the end of it.

I don't have to have a reasonable doubt. I do start with assumption of innocence but in this case the answer is simple for me.

You didn't answer my questions:
1. Are you saying that that investigation and trial is how all investigations and trials should occur?

2. That a conflict of interest is no big deal, and the the prosecution should shout to the world unfounded allegations before the investigation has even finished and before the trial has even begun?

3. That it is fine for defense attorneys to collaborate with the prosecution in order to secure a conviction and leave their underage clients totally at the mercy of seasoned investigators with out being present?
 
If you are saying I said it as a fact since I mentioned it in my prior post...... then you are mistaken. I clearly said in my post above 'if it is true..'

No, I did not mean you in particular, and I am very sorry if you took it that way. I meant that I had seen many posts of people stating it as a fact due to Grace literally shouting it out in her interviews. :)
 
As a side note, can anyone give me any possible explanation as to why the coroner was walled off and not permitted to examine the murder site? I read somewhere that it was some kind of conflict of interest, but that didn't seem to bother them where Lenk and Colburn were concerned, so why was it so important to keep the coroner out? :shakehead:

I can't imagine why the coroner was not allowed on site without seeing that as h inky also. Why didn't they call one from another county then? It is such a critical point as how the bones got there, and why in numerous places.

I've wondered if someone, maybe the person calling her, followed her and killed her. Then taking advantage of Avery's past, took already burned remains.
 
It is far more probable that he moved them around than anyone else did. The burn pit is the place the body was burned and then They were most probably taken to other sites to spread it around to avoid detection better. It makes most sense that it was him.

Ummm... No it doesn't. That actually makes the least sense.
 
No matter what he had a good defense team. They really did a great job and yet the jury found him guilty. He had a fair trial. He had a good defense And the jury spoke.

The Defense had lots of experts and pushed corruption and still lost.

I think this was a fair trial. All in all, the trial was fair.
 
No matter what he had a good defense team. They really did a great job and yet the jury found him guilty. He had a fair trial. He had a good defense And the jury spoke.

The Defense had lots of experts and pushed corruption and still lost.

I think this was a fair trial. All in all, the trial was fair.

What about the things the jury members are saying now?
 
Ummm... No it doesn't. That actually makes the least sense.

It makes more sense that someone killed her, Wiped his blood in her car, Then burned her on his property and moved bones around and he never saw them? That someone was right there by the trailer and carrying bones around that they searched out of the pit and the Masseys nor the Averys saw them???

IT makes perfect sense it was him.
 
I will say that I believe that BM had nothing to do with this and should not have been on trial at all.

I think he is a slow kid who got caught up in this mess because his prior atty was an idgit.
 
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