Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

[ArianeEmory]

Which previous crimes were downplayed? Do you mean the rape that he spent 18 years in prison for NOT commiting?

I wonder what you think of the nephew? Do you believe he was also guilty? Do you believe he slit her throat in the bedroom? Shot her in the garage? If you had a learning disabled child would you want LE to question them alone and use the same tactics? Or did you think that was all edited in by the film makers and they actually treated him correctly?

Tossing a cat on a fire?

 

[MysticJynx]

What is up with the content on the shelves in the 2 different pictures ? I mean it's not the same , at all . LE re stacked things in it nicely and neatly after each search but not where it was before or am I missing something or not seeing the right thing? Please advise.

the first picture was from Nov 5th from what I understand. and the key picture is from after he supposedly twisted, pulled and shaked the thing on Nov 8. Dont look like he moved it at all from the wall thus he did not Twist, Shake and Pull it ROUGHLY as he testified on the stand he did. Lenk statement about the key states "as WE were tipping and banging the magazines and binder in and out of the cabinet" There were no magazines in the cabinet that day. it was books. They even state they took everything out of the unit and didn't seen any key poking out from between the back which would have been so noticeable. I need me one of those keys and place the key how they say it must have been and show you that there is no way they didn't see a key in the back pushing the backing away while the books were out. What happened to the papers that were on the shelf? there are three different pictures from three different days of that Bookcase unit that shows it was never moved from that wall at all. They didn't move it cause they knew there would not be a key there. that is my opinion and point.

 

[MysticJynx]

Remember that the crimes they had on Steven Avery. The burglaries, The party to animal cruelty and the pointing of the gun at his cousin Sandra Morris all happened prior to his wrongful Conviction of Raping and trying to kill Penny Beersten. These crimes did not make him the attacker of Penny and it doesn't prove he attacked Teresa Halbach. These are the same incidents they used to tunnel vision Avery into being convicted in 1985. After he was released from prison in 2003 he was not CONVICTED of anything else. In September of 2004 he was arrested for an altercation he had with then fiance Jodi. They also said there was lack of evidence to her claims. However he was arrested and ordered to stay away from her for 3 days and to pay a fine of something like 250 dollars. I can't condone this if he did treat Jodi like this, but it also doesn't make him the murderer of Teresa. Jodi was someone he had a personal relationship with and we do not really know the content of their relationship behind closed doors.

 

[missy1974]

What is up with the content on the shelves in the 2 different pictures ? I mean it's not the same , at all . LE re stacked things in it nicely and neatly after each search but not where it was before or am I missing something or not seeing the right thing? Please advise.

if you look in the Key thread, there is also another picture with yet different things on it.

 

[MaxManning]

I'm still waiting for any kind of crime scene investigator to suggest that shaking/rustling around furniture to see what drops out instead of removing each item meticulously and inspecting it is the preferred method.

What exactly is the logic to shaking/rustling it ?

nothing about that makes sense to me.

 

[Rivernh]

Because they had no key and they were not able to somehow get the car into neutral, they used a piece of car moving machinery that is at the junk yard to get the car out from between the vehicles in front and back of it.

That is how the car was damaged.

That makes me wonder if there were cars parked in front and in back of them, under what circumstances did the car get packed in between other cars. To me that's a detail that suggests whoever did it had the means to move cars around to pack it in tightly

 

[SoBeCzar]

That makes me wonder if there were cars parked in front and in back of them, under what circumstances did the car get packed in between other cars. To me that's a detail that suggests whoever did it had the means to move cars around to pack it in tightly

Post 337 has an aerial view of the car parked at the junk yard. A notation says it was covered by tarps to conceal it from the rain. So LE did that. There is a red vehicle parked almost along side of it. If it is LE's vehicle then it looks as if the RAV4 could have been parallel parked easily since there is a fair amount of room between it and the car in front of it. So it doesn't really tell me much when I look at it. Maybe someone else can make a better observation.

 

[suzier]

I'm still waiting for any kind of crime scene investigator to suggest that shaking/rustling around furniture to see what drops out instead of removing each item meticulously and inspecting it is the preferred method.

What exactly is the logic to shaking/rustling it ?

nothing about that makes sense to me.

The same investigators that sit on the bed where the murder allegedly occurred while they fill out the paperwork?

Thus, the argument the number of searches and elapsed time before finding the key is misleading because previous search(es) were not complete, seems to fall short since they were lounging around tainting evidence.....

 

[diesel]

Trying to hide a car with branches and a big piece of metal, why would the cover on the back not be removed? Big letters RAV4. Much easier to notice. And why was Strum given a camera. If she saw something, couldn't she just have notified?

 

[SoBeCzar]

Trying to hide a car with branches and a big piece of metal, why would the cover on the back not be removed? Big letters RAV4. Much easier to notice. And why was Strum given a camera. If she saw something, couldn't she just have notified?

Strum was given a camera to make sure she documented she found the car and not LE who had a conflict of interest, since they would be finding all the other evidence and they had a conflict of interest of course. lol Remember the tape of Strang calling in the RAV4 license plate before it was found. It is not a stretch that he and a couple of buddies decided it would be best to park her car in the suspects junk yard and drop a few hints to the search team that someone might want to check out that area and maybe bring a camera just in case she finds something. I think if SA really wanted to hide it he would have tucked it deep in that 40 acre car haystack instead of lined up on the outer edge with what amounted to a couple branches for concealment.

 

[MEMEto5]

Is there a picture of any gloves? Seems to me that guyes usually wear pretty thick gloves working in that kind of environment. Thick to avoid puncture s and cuts on sharp or rusty metal. If the theory is he bled through gloves and left blood smear, I don't buy it.

And the blood smear on the dash near ignition is pretty big. Could someone really leave that and notice?? Doubt it.

I don't believe she was killed in trailer, no DNA or prints. But I doubt garage too.
Who would shoot "10 times" in a garage FIL LE with parts, clutter, who knowd*? No blood splatter, no bullet holes in other parts ?

I don't think they have an actual kill site yet.

JMO

 

[Tawny]

Strum was given a camera to make sure she documented she found the car and not LE who had a conflict of interest, since they would be finding all the other evidence and they had a conflict of interest of course. lol Remember the tape of Strang calling in the RAV4 license plate before it was found. It is not a stretch that he and a couple of buddies decided it would be best to park her car in the suspects junk yard and drop a few hints to the search team that someone might want to check out that area and maybe bring a camera just in case she finds something. I think if SA really wanted to hide it he would have tucked it deep in that 40 acre car haystack instead of lined up on the outer edge with what amounted to a couple branches for concealment.

Bolded: Strang was one of Steven's attorneys. It was Colborn that called it in 2 days early

 

[MaxManning]

That makes me wonder if there were cars parked in front and in back of them, under what circumstances did the car get packed in between other cars. To me that's a detail that suggests whoever did it had the means to move cars around to pack it in tightly

Will have to go back to the pictures to get an idea of how tight they were. I've seen some mighty tight parallel parking in cities I have lived in, so it'd have to be pretty damn tight for me to not believe someone could parallel park it. But I agree that is a good scenario to investigate.

But the issue for law enforcement getting that vehicle out, is different because they allegedly didn't have the key. Getting the car in neutral, and being able to steer it was the issue.

Now is it possibly/likely that the cars in front of and behind were moved ? sure. maybe even likely imo

Also, knowing who put the car in front of and behind there initially. Are these cars drivable ? were they towed to those positions ? lots of questions that I have. But I didn't see any testimony in the dassey trial regarding these topics and I was very curious.

I agree that it's unlikely that Chuck/Earl/Fabian , or at least one of them, was not aware of that car so poorly hidden that it stuck out.

 

[MaxManning]

Is there a picture of any gloves? Seems to me that guyes usually wear pretty thick gloves working in that kind of environment. Thick to avoid puncture s and cuts on sharp or rusty metal. If the theory is he bled through gloves and left blood smear, I don't buy it.

And the blood smear on the dash near ignition is pretty big. Could someone really leave that and notice?? Doubt it.

I don't believe she was killed in trailer, no DNA or prints. But I doubt garage too.
Who would shoot "10 times" in a garage FIL LE with parts, clutter, who knowd*? No blood splatter, no bullet holes in other parts ?

I don't think they have an actual kill site yet.

JMO

These theories have been discussed -- Google "Work Gloves", if you have questions regarding how common cloth knuckles are. Also see the thread on this topic. Would love to see the work gloves they used working in the junk yard, haven't seen any examples from either side.

In terms of blood splatter, I'll start a thread on that, because this seems to be yet another topic where people assume there had to be a huge mess if she was shot in the garage. I think 10-12 shots is ridiculous.

But all I'll say here is. Pillow or something to cover the splatter that would come forward. Then no splatter at all, just a pool of blood that fits the description of the luminol hit on a 3x3 area in the garage.


Why does prosecution use 10-12 shots ? because brendan said that. Does that make it so? Does anyone believe that ?

Lastly, lets not forget that all these guys are likely skilled with deer hunting and understand what happens when you shoot something in the head. They understand blood splatter on some level, I am sure. So using a pillow wouldn't surprise me any more than putting a glove on. No rocket science.

I'm not convinced she was killed in garage, but wouldn't use the "where's the splatter ?" or "where are all the bullet holes from those 10-12 bullets?" arguments against it. Yes, you can use that against the prosecution's narrative. But who here, really believes all that ? I'd say nobody. So you are preaching to the choir if you are using that as the determining factors for whether killing in the garage was possible.

UPDATE -- Added thread regarding the 10-12 shots in the garage, blood splatter and what I think is reasonable to believe.

THREAD -- 12 shots in the garage and blood spatter

 

[OtterPops]

The RAV4 sitting on the lot bugs me so much. Theory seems to be it was put in a place to make it ready for the crusher. If SA did it, why in the world wouldn't he just crash the car?? He "ran" the lot, he presumably knew how to operate all the machinery and the crusher. Also... when was the photo of TH standing next to her car taken? It looks pristine, even looks good in photos where it us discovered on the lot. Then the hood looks horrendous in photos from the shed in police custody. I am just confused why this "important piece of evidence" seems to have been treated like crap in police custody.

 

[Dogface]

I'm watching the Dr. Phil episode right now, and Nancy Grace(tolerating because it's somewhat buffered by dr. Phil)is talking about the "sweat DNA", and I remember this being discussed earlier. Do they KNOW the DNA came from sweat? Or is it just considered DNA?

 

[Tawny]

I'm watching the Dr. Phil episode right now, and Nancy Grace(tolerating because it's somewhat buffered by dr. Phil)is talking about the "sweat DNA", and I remember this being discussed earlier. Do they KNOW the DNA came from sweat? Or is it just considered DNA?

As far as I know there is no difference between regular DNA and "sweat" DNA. Blood DNA is obviously different.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://wbay.com/2016/01/07/video-nov-9-2005-steven-avery-is-arrested/

First time I had seen this, apparently Earls wife told a reporter that there had been an earlier search by LE and the Rav4 wasn't there then. :thinking:

 

[Dogface]

As far as I know there is no difference between regular DNA and "sweat" DNA. Blood DNA is obviously different.

Thank you. I just read some more, sweat only contains DNA due to the shedding of skin cells. So I do think the detective not changing his gloves after looking at other cars could have transferred DNA. And I'm sorry if I missed it, but, the blood DNA in the car and the DNA on the hood is the only DNA found? No touch DNA on the steering wheel, door handles or trunk latches?

Loving Dr. Phil going back and forth with NG. He stands exactly where I do on this at the moment but I'm only half way through the episode.

 

[Tawny]

http://wbay.com/2016/01/07/video-nov-9-2005-steven-avery-is-arrested/

First time I had seen this, apparently Earls wife told a reporter that there had been an earlier search by LE and the Rav4 wasn't there then. :thinking:

That's pretty interesting.

Also, can someone help clear this up for me? The video says his arrest was for "felon possessing a firearm" but was "in relation to" the incident in 1985 with his cousin?