Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #4

[SgtScraps]

Cause they never even asked that man for an Alibi. The investigation was biased from the beginning to point at Steven Avery. There is the person who was close to her one of the last known friends to see her alive on 10-30-05 yet they never asked him where were you on halloween. The police never wanted to look at anyone outside that scope ever since they saw that name. which was given to them by the exboyfriend. Had the cop done a reverse directory on Janda's number at 11:43am you would never have had them pointed directly at him until they placed b. janda at the avery lot which Calumet did not have that information cause RH put that number down as Steven Avery, Until after Manitowoc went to visit STEVE AVERY whch they did because of the phone number on the bill. How did RH know her appointment with B.Janda was Steve Avery. Unless he saw her talking to him for that appointment. JMO

Such poor investigating right from the get-go. I didn't know RH named SA in this manner, I'll have to check that for myself.

I had started a theory in my head that RH was involved somehow. From the car search footage through his testimony footage,
he just seemed not to be telling the truth. Guessing TH code was odd, I have a feeling he has known it all along like someone mentioned way back about ex's keeping tabs..etc..etc

If he knew it all along and was listening in to her voice mails all along, he would have a fair idea of what was happening in her private life. The way he states in his testimony that TH was definitely not involved romantically with her house mate was strange to me.
Even if they both denied it if questioned, how could he state so definitely? Perhaps he was listening to voice mails and never heard any cues of a possible intimate relationship in messages between the two?

Maybe that's how he pointed LE towards SA at the start? We know the appointment was for BJ but did SA leave a voicemail that day? Maybe RH heard it and pointed LE in his direction?

It's so hard to get a grasp of this more fully with a non-existent investigation. I'm new to WS and totally addicted now, keep up the good work folks:clap:

 

[Coldpizza]

:welcome3:

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I read they did leave certain officers on the property guarding it at night. Alone. Not the ones named but interesting none the less. Day 4 transcripts.

I'm guessing that there was no one there the night SA saw tail lights--otherwise it would have been no big deal--he would have thought it was a LE driving through the property.

 

[Safeguard]

Such poor investigating right from the get-go. I didn't know RH named SA in this manner, I'll have to check that for myself.

I had started a theory in my head that RH was involved somehow. From the car search footage through his testimony footage,
he just seemed not to be telling the truth. Guessing TH code was odd, I have a feeling he has known it all along like someone mentioned way back about ex's keeping tabs..etc..etc

If he knew it all along and was listening in to her voice mails all along, he would have a fair idea of what was happening in her private life. The way he states in his testimony that TH was definitely not involved romantically with her house mate was strange to me.
Even if they both denied it if questioned, how could he state so definitely? Perhaps he was listening to voice mails and never heard any cues of a possible intimate relationship in messages between the two?

Maybe that's how he pointed LE towards SA at the start? We know the appointment was for BJ but did SA leave a voicemail that day? Maybe RH heard it and pointed LE in his direction?

It's so hard to get a grasp of this more fully with a non-existent investigation. I'm new to WS and totally addicted now, keep up the good work folks:clap:

Hi, and Welcome to your new home! :wagon:
Your not going to get a lot of sleep from now on! :websleuther: LOL!

I also found RH's whole demeanor...odd...
I haven't felt confident enough to point at any one person, as a potential suspect, but RH does seem to behave, very strangely to me. Could be he's just a weird person, but he set off my alarm bells.

What I get hung up on, is the fact that she was shot. Does RH even own a gun, have access to one? Somehow I can't picture him shooting anyone... I would like to know how he got those nasty wounds on his hand though, and I have considered, he could have done it, but not by himself. ( maybe TH was struggling, RH did the "holding", but someone else did the shooting?

 

[Sustained]

I'm guessing that there was no one there the night SA saw tail lights--otherwise it would have been no big deal--he would have thought it was a LE driving through the property.

Not so sure about that as apparently CA saw headlights as well ...

 

[dexter75]

IF this is a well behaved dog then no, it doesn't bark. ( Referring to if it's the person sneaking arounds dog )

IF you mean the Avery ( SA ) dog, I have 2 very large, very protective dogs.

There have been times while they have been in a dreamlike state, NOTHING ( things that should have ) woke them/got them barking.

I look over to them only to think " REALLY guys, you run to the door and bark at every car door, wind gust, etc. and the PIZZA guy just came waltzing across the deck, KNOCKED, and you SNORE right through it?! "
Canines, ha!

So someone goes sneaky around on the Avery property (potentially in the middle of the night) with a big german shepard---and the dog doesn't bark and wake everyone up or at least 1 person? That person who supposedly planted her bones is his fire pit--had to be less than 500 -100 feet from his house and his dog didn't wake up? I find that really hard to believe..Unless...it was someone the dog was familiar with--but--even then I think the dog would have barked...and in one of their interviews--they would have mentioned the dog barking--just like they did about seeing tail lights/lights.

 

[Tawny]

Is there testimony as to what the dog was doing or where he was when there were guards on the property? It's 40 acres. Was he penned up somewhere or kept in a garage?

 

[Sustained]

So someone goes sneaky around on the Avery property (potentially in the middle of the night) with a big german shepard---and the dog doesn't bark and wake everyone up or at least 1 person? That person who supposedly planted her bones is his fire pit--had to be less than 500 -100 feet from his house and his dog didn't wake up? I find that really hard to believe..Unless...it was someone the dog was familiar with--but--even then I think the dog would have barked...and in one of their interviews--they would have mentioned the dog barking--just like they did about seeing tail lights/lights.

When did the Avery's get kicked off their property ? It's possible the fire pit bones were planted after they were forced to go to Crivitz. I'm sure the dog would not have been left alone with no food/water for days.

 

[Soulmagent]

When did the Avery's get kicked off their property ? It's possible the fire pit bones were planted after they were forced to go to Crivitz. I'm sure the dog would not have been left alone with no food/water for days.

The dog was chained to his dog house near the pit. He could not reach into the pit,he was near it.

The Officer who was stationed at the property on the night of the 5th was Calumet's Lt. Kelly Sippel.
Maybe nothing , who knows . It should be noted here that TH's first appointment that day was set up by Craig Sippel.
And possible this co winky is completely unrelated but interesting none the less.
http://www.sippelfuneralhome.net/

 

[Swirlz]

A couple questions:

Is there anyone who claimed to have seen TH alive at any time after she would've left the Avery property the day she went out there to take pics?

And, for people who think LE killed her so that they could frame SA, if they were that desperate, why wouldn't they have just killed SA?

 

[Safeguard]

The dog was chained to his dog house near the pit. He could not reach into the pit,he was near it.

The Officer who was stationed at the property on the night of the 5th was Calumet's Lt. Kelly Sippel.
Maybe nothing , who knows . It should be noted here that TH's first appointment that day was set up by Craig Sippel.
And possible this co winky is completely unrelated but interesting none the less.
http://www.sippelfuneralhome.net/

Creepy coincidence. *shudder*
Noticed the fourth Obit listed is for a one:
Sylvester Halbach. Just sayin...

 

[Sinsaint]

A couple questions:

Is there anyone who claimed to have seen TH alive at any time after she would've left the Avery property the day she went out there to take pics?

And, for people who think LE killed her so that they could frame SA, if they were that desperate, why wouldn't they have just killed SA?

I don't necessarily think LE killed her but killing Avery wouldn't have ended the lawsuit. Avery's next of kin would be entitled to continue the suit. Putting HIM in a position of not being able to follow through with the lawsuit was the only way the county could get out of paying him.

 

[Sustained]

A couple questions:

Is there anyone who claimed to have seen TH alive at any time after she would've left the Avery property the day she went out there to take pics?

And, for people who think LE killed her so that they could frame SA, if they were that desperate, why wouldn't they have just killed SA?

No one has come forward about seeing TH alive after the she left the Avery property. But would you if you were involved ?

LE could've killed SA ( I believe Peterson brought that up ) ... but if they messed up, they would on trial for murder. If SA is not guilty, it is much easier to plant evidence and frame someone. JMO ...

 

[missy1974]

Good morning all welcome to the newbies!

Like I said in my post last night.... I'm a "doubter", I don't have the answers to everything, but there is nothing I'm doubting that I don't think have possibilities of opportunity for others to 'plant'. That dog.... didn't someone testify that it had a calm demeanor? Who said it was vicious and wouldn't let anyone near.... was that in the search warrant.... when they wanted to extend it.... and they needed a reason? (I think MysticJynx mentioned this a few days ago)

As far as RH goes..... check his FB page, he is a hunter too, which tells me that yes he does have or has access to guns. Did he in 2005? I dunno.... not my job, that was LE's.

Something interesting I found in the testimony last night..... TH is reported to have gone to a Halloween party on the Saturday, the 29th, Wiegert does not recall any of her friends saying they were with her or seen her that night, he seen many of them on the 4th and 5th, asked the last time they seen or spoke to her, etc. And.... there was mention of a guy, B.C. (day 18 page 211), she had a business and personal relationship with him, maybe a new relationship was budding? Maybe someone was jealous? just sayin....

I have seen a lot of posts in other places that are not moderated, like reddit and facebook. I don't feel it's right to screenshot them and bring them over here because I would hate to put out names of the posters (not sure if I'm allowed to or not anyway), but when I see posts from people saying 'all i do have to say is i know george for many years and could tell many stories but i won't do it on here and i know steven and brenden are innocent that's all i am going to say on here thanks have a good night all' (george is in reference to GZ) and then I look at the persons fb .... and that person is friends with Jodi.... yep, I have some questions. This is just 1 example. My opinions are not based on everything that is posted here on websleuths, I just don't post everything I see LOL I can say.... one common theme is....there are people out there that are seriously afraid to say anything because they are scared of LE.... how sad is that?

 

[Deeptoad]

People can be convinced they committed a non-existant crime in just 3 hours

http://www.sciencealert.com/people-...tted-a-non-existant-crime-in-just-three-hours

An interesting article.

That... was... interesting indeed. No mention of how suggestible people with developmental or cognitive disabilities might be. I would suspect their natural defenses against suggestion might likewise be compromised. Thanks for the link to the article.

 

[missy1974]

Experts: Investigators tainted Avery case

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2016/01/26/experts-investigators-tainted-avery-case/79065166/

"By them physically being there when there was no reason to be and nothing to contribute at that point, it raises eyebrows," said Trainum, the criminal case review consultant in Washington, D.C. "As cops, we start to look for evidence to confirm our theory rather than evidence to test that theory. That brings so much doubt to me on the verdict itself. They opened the door for that, so shame on them.”

ya know... it makes me feel a little less crazy when I read that experts in the field feel the same way.

 

[MysticJynx]

That is a good question...who DID know she had an appointment with SA that day. I don't recall anyone ever testifying about what time Auto Trader called TH and left her the message about the new appointments. Does anyone know?

Also, while we are on the subject of suspicious people--what about her partner at the Photography Studio? I wonder if he was ever checked out? Not that I don't think SA is guilty--but I think it could be plausible that TH had talked to him on the 31st and he lied. But LE would know that answer. I wonder who TH called or received calls from prior to noon...and at 1:52 pm.

TH's partner I have skimmed over his testimony, Yes he should have been looked at too. Teresa and he do not go into the studio on Monday's. So he too was most likely off all day on Monday. He also seems to have had a crush on her. Do not know if he called her that day or not, cause they don't list who those mysterious calls were.

 

[TheDuchess]

To believe this story of Steve Avery being the murderer, you would have to accept the following "truths."
1.) Steve Avery, a man who served 18 years in prison for a horrible crime that he did not commit managed to remain on good behavior all of those years, and not have a bad word to say about anyone after the fact, just happy to be free again. After patiently waiting for the authorities to be punished in some way for their actions against him, he decides to file a lawsuit for 36 million dollars. Regardless of the expected outcome, I am certain that his attorneys had given him a fairly good idea of what he could expect to gain from the lawsuit. And as that lawsuit is progressing nicely and depositions are taking place, he then decides to brutally murder a poor young woman he knows only in a professional sense. Not only that, he chooses Halloween, a day when the kids next door are getting home from school and getting ready to go trick-or-treating. A time in broad daylight when the lot is still open for business and anyone can come along. Then he goes on TV immediately stating that they may try to frame him. And for what? The thrill? SA drunkenly threw a cat in a fire surrounded by a bunch of other drunks when he was 19 and paid his dues. In an act of desperation after continued public humiliation, he took an unloaded shotgun to chase her away and try to scare her into leaving him alone. When he saw the child, he withdrew. He paid the price for that as well, but he certainly wouldn't have been sentenced for that long if it hadn't been coupled with the false conviction for the attempted rape.

With his notoriety upon his release from prison and thereafter, SA knew quite well that he had a target on his back from local law enforcement. I have no doubt they kept close tabs on him to try to catch him in anything they possibly could. They knew he was a "bad guy" and even if he didn't commit the attempted rape, he still was no hero, yet they were being vilified. SA knew this. Yet, he still decided to brutally murder a woman on his own property and burn her body right in his own backyard for everyone to see. Wow, talk about cahones!

The thing is that EVERYONE hated him. Even though he didn't commit the crime, he was still left with nothing. No family. No job. No money. Had to live in an ice shack. He even lowered himself to asking the one person who might wish to help him out for help and she not only flat out denied him, she turned him away. (I'm talking about the original victim.) Even till this day, locals are far more capable of believing he is guilty than non-locals. Why is that? Is it because he really is a bad guy? Or just a jerk? Or did some believe he was still guilty and got freed on a technicality? Who knows. But the bottom line is that everyone believed he was a bad person and probably killed TH. From her family and friends, to law enforcement, to the legal system and many of his own family. Maybe he deserved that reputation. I don't know. But I do know that his reputation and the overriding notion that he was a bad guy is what got him convicted the first time. This overriding notion that he was a bad guy was what made everyone point the finger at him from the get go in the TH case. Could the notion that this bad guy got off once before on a "technicality" possibly be a factor when someone is faced with a situation that he might "get off" again? Could it justify to themselves to plant evidence? Skirt the law. Tell a few white lies here and there? Even subconsciously aim themselves in his direction when there may well be other avenues and suspects?

If SA is guilty, there is still a LOT of problems with this investigation and his conviction, particularly with Brendan. But if SA is innocent, dear God, what have we done?

 

[TheDuchess]

That... was... interesting indeed. No mention of how suggestible people with developmental or cognitive disabilities might be. I would suspect their natural defenses against suggestion might likewise be compromised. Thanks for the link to the article.

Likely less than 3 hours. I bet poor Brendan had plenty of nightmares knowing he lived on that property so close to the crime. I would imagine he imagined what might have happened, coupled with his books and movies and God only knows what he already had in his mind. Remember, there were several months of this going on with his family.

 

[ElleElle]

Yep, I agree.

There seems to be an effort to make RH the perp, but I'm just not seeing any evidence that links him to the crime itself.

I don't see evidence that she, her phone, her purse, her camera or her PDA ever left the Avery Salvage Yard that afternoon.

There a couple of witnesses that saw her drive off the Avery property.