Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #5

[PrimeSuspect]

We can disagree till we are blue in the face, but in the end all of our theories and opinions hold the exact amount of water. e. I mean, how is any of us that agree with the verdict trying to prove our point going to change anything? We aren't the prosecution, the Defense or the Jury. So I don't feel to really need to prove my feelings on why he is guilty, because well at the end of the day my opinion doesn't matter. It's not going to change anything. IMO.

But this is a sleuthing site so I don't understand your point. Invalidating your own opinion and invalidating others isn't constructive, imo.
If you mean nothing is going to change your mind, that's fine, I've been known to stick to my guns also, but then again, I've been swayed to the dark side on a few occasions.
This case certainly has a lot of inconsistencies and motives worth sleuthing, it is like opening a Pandora's Box.

MaM has opened people's eyes to police corruption and innocent people being imprisoned.
I've already come to this conclusion from other documentaries, The Seven Five, The Thin Blue Line, Central Park Five and Underbelly.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I won't lie sometimes I do feel discouraged to post when I read some of the replies. I do believe that new evidence needs to be found in this case to prove either way that he is innocent or guilty. I mean I can see how he was found guilty with some of the evidence that is given heck hes got all the things conveniently placed for finding all over his property. That is what makes it so suspicious to me. Everything was all out in the open pretty much to be found, including the key. Yet the only thing he cleaned up was the DNA of TH in and around his house and garage. And he some how miraculously knew which DNA and possible blood was hers and hers alone. Not his or the deer but only hers. The bullet yes found in the garage was flattened ballistics couldn't conclusively say it was from that specific gun. The gun did not have any DNA of his or hers on it. It was hanging over his bed. And it was testified by the man who owns the property that the gun was his and possibly the shells laying around the garage. They did not finger print the gun or the bullets. The key the DNA is only his. The DNA on the bullet was compromised, and it probably did have TH's DNA on it. but they could not say it was blood, and they found it many months later after doing numerous searches in the garage. Such a small piece of evidence that could have been dropped while they were doing their luminol test somewhat dark in there when they do that no? Even after picking up shells they didn't look for bullets? they found the body on the 8th, they had the property till the 12th. They had 4 days to look for bullets, and other possible weapons, after they found her near the pit. The way the Rav4 was covered, and concealed in a way that pointed directly to it. Sure I can see on the surface it sure looked like he was the culprit but then all the broken protocols, the time it took to find some of the evidence the fact that out of 200 on the scene only 2 were there for all the evidence to be found. But when you do look under all the surface you see that nothing was conclusive and to many protocols were broken for this theory of the states to make sense.

Do you know there are cases where some is assaulted or killed and the only dna found is on the inside of the jeans where they grabbed them to pull them down, or a smudge or touch dna? It does not invalidate the finding just because there is not that much dna found. He could have cleaned well or made sure not to touch things and just made some mistakes.
It does not discount the dna found.

 

[MysticJynx]

Is it the State's job to look for exculpatory evidence at this point? Wouldn't that be Avery's attorney's job?

Relevance is important. If something is deemed irrelevant by a judge then it doesn't get in. For good reason I should add.

JMO

But he wasn't excluding or including it he seemed to be asking the state to make sense of what the defense had and the witness was going to testify to. Why did the state not look into these messages they would be important if they were accessed and deleted on Nov 2nd. Her phone was already not pinging towers and they had to have a password to get in. Why would someone else be accessing her account, before she was reported missing? This to me should have had some relevance, they already allowed the testimony that her brother and friend were accessing her accounts. He said he was giving the state to give an explanation and they never do. At what stage was he gonna tell you his thoughts on it. seems he just skimmed over it so it was forgotten about. which it seems it was. and in my opinion the Manitowoc Judges should have also recused themselves from participating in the trials of both men. They were also part of the County in which was being sued. According to KK Judge JF was in on the sensitive conversation that lead to Man Co. pretending to recuse themselves from the investigation. Handing over the Lead investigation to Calumet because of the appearance of misconduct that may be seen because of the conflict of interest, as Man. Co. was being sued.

JMO

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Just a couple of ideas to ponder, is it possible the car was damaged to blend in better on the junk car lot? A damaged rav 4 might not be as noticed as a pristine one.
And is it possible that Colburn and Lenk jumped right in the investigation because they were afraid they left their own evidence behind? They needed some plausible deniability of why forensics could discover their prints or dna.

 

[LifeCitizen]

[Do you need more coffee? hahaha

Sounds like a great idea! But, first I've been neglecting my family--so I have to go feed them!!

pffft, you feed your family? don't they know there is a case to solve here? hahaha

I had the whole family here tonight for my youngest's bday and ordered chinese LOL]​

Hilarious!
I've been meaning to ask, do people here sleep?!
I honestly can't keep up! but I try- not as young as I used to be.

I'm pinning my hopes on KZ, and or someone confessing. But I really doubt that will happen, whoever was involved has kept mum so far.






​

 

[RANCH]

Do you know there are cases where some is assaulted or killed and the only dna found is on the inside of the jeans where they grabbed them to pull them down, or a smudge or touch dna? It does not invalidate the finding just because there is not that much dna found. He could have cleaned well or made sure not to touch things and just made some mistakes.
It does not discount the dna found.

One of the things that make me feel that Avery is guilty is it looks like he tried to cover some evidence but missed some of it.

That looks to be the most plausible scenario to me. It makes sense because it would be hard to cover everything. JMO

 

[angelainwi]

There is a mountain of evidence against him. His DNA, His property where she was found burned and scattered, Her car was there. In any other case, This is a slam dunk. Not even a question.

Interesting that in the initial vote it was 7 for not guilty, 3 for guilty and 2 undecided. Does not seem like it was a slam dunk

 

[RANCH]

But he wasn't excluding or including it he seemed to be asking the state to make sense of what the defense had and the witness was going to testify to. Why did the state not look into these messages they would be important if they were accessed and deleted on Nov 2nd. Her phone was already not pinging towers and they had to have a password to get in. Why would someone else be accessing her account, before she was reported missing? This to me should have had some relevance, they already allowed the testimony that her brother and friend were accessing her accounts. He said he was giving the state to give an explanation and they never do. At what stage was he gonna tell you his thoughts on it. seems he just skimmed over it so it was forgotten about. which it seems it was. and in my opinion the Manitowoc Judges should have also recused themselves from participating in the trials of both men. They were also part of the County in which was being sued. According to KK Judge JF was in on the sensitive conversation that lead to Man Co. pretending to recuse themselves from the investigation. Handing over the Lead investigation to Calumet because of the appearance of misconduct that may be seen because of the conflict of interest, as Man. Co. was being sued.

JMO

If these messages were relavant and were exclupatory evidence why didn't the defense do something about it during the trial? You can't put it all on the State.

Can Avery's attorney's do anything about it now?

 

[SpriteGal]

But this is a sleuthing site so I don't understand your point. Invalidating your own opinion and invalidating others isn't constructive, imo.
If you mean nothing is going to change your mind, that's fine, I've been known to stick to my guns also, but then again, I've been swayed to the dark side on a few occasions.
This case certainly has a lot of inconsistencies and motives worth sleuthing, it is like opening a Pandora's Box.

MaM has opened people's eyes to police corruption and innocent people being imprisoned.
I've already come to this conclusion from other documentaries, The Seven Five, The Thin Blue Line, Central Park Five and Underbelly.

Yes, that's my thoughts, for me personally my mind has been made up. So me arguing back and forth with somebody with somebody that thinks he's innocent, really isn't going to help matters. Just more tension, I am all for the discussion if its actually productive, but in my case, me sharing my thoughts when I have my belief set in stone, and people trying to discredit my belief will accomplish nothing.

 

[MysticJynx]

Do you know there are cases where some is assaulted or killed and the only dna found is on the inside of the jeans where they grabbed them to pull them down, or a smudge or touch dna? It does not invalidate the finding just because there is not that much dna found. He could have cleaned well or made sure not to touch things and just made some mistakes.
It does not discount the dna found.

when there are blood drippings down the back of the INSIDE of her cargo door, and that car was supposedly backed into the garage, and teresa laid in the middle of the floor, Remember she was Stabbed, throat slit, and then shot 11times while laying on the ground in the garage. How did that blood get on the door? If you say he was carrying her and dripping blood onto there, wouldnt there spots of blood of hers leading to the back of the car as he carried her? If there were drippings on the floor how did he know to just clean up each spot without staining out the concrete floor, or removing any of his own DNA or the DNA of animals? There had to be blood she was bleeding, there is droppings on the inside of the door, and the cargo panel. She was bleeding. there is no Blood or DNA of hers in the garage where they place her as bleeding but there is on the inside of that door. Seems harder for drippings to fall sideways onto the open door then directly down on the ground.Then while they cleaned up every drop that must have been dripping from the bedroom to the garage being stabbed and slashed, but not picking up the shell casing while they were down on the grounds scrubbing droplets of blood. or maybe they picked them up wiped them clean too just to be sure and then placed them back on the floor. No way I can believe that her dna wouldnt be else where then on a lone bullet found 4 months later.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

when there are blood drippings down the back of the INSIDE of her cargo door, and that car was supposedly backed into the garage, and teresa laid in the middle of the floor, Remember she was Stabbed, throat slit, and then shot 11times while laying on the ground in the garage. How did that blood get on the door? If you say he was carrying her and dripping blood onto there, wouldnt there spots of blood of hers leading to the back of the car as he carried her? If there were drippings on the floor how did he know to just clean up each spot without staining out the concrete floor, or removing any of his own DNA or the DNA of animals? There had to be blood she was bleeding, there is droppings on the inside of the door, and the cargo panel. She was bleeding. there is no Blood or DNA of hers in the garage where they place her as bleeding but there is on the inside of that door. Seems harder for drippings to fall sideways onto the open door then directly down on the ground.Then while they cleaned up every drop that must have been dripping from the bedroom to the garage being stabbed and slashed, but not picking up the shell casing while they were down on the grounds scrubbing droplets of blood. or maybe they picked them up wiped them clean too just to be sure and then placed them back on the floor. No way I can believe that her dna wouldnt be else where then on a lone bullet found 4 months later.

You want me to give you a play by play as to how he did it? I can't. No body can. I don't need any of that to see that she was killed there, burned there and scattered around.
Her dna being on the bullet makes perfect sense if it went through her body. Was no one else in that garage for 4 months?? Could it be that someone else had kicked it around, Or moved something that freed it up? Could it have been missed? I don't know. That is not even the evidence that has me most convinced.
Her burned body in the fire pit is a big thing for me. Her car is there, covered up.. Not just parked somewhere to draw attention as it would be if someone else wanted it found.

 

[MysticJynx]

If these messages were relavant and were exclupatory evidence why didn't the defense do something about it during the trial? You can't put it all on the State.

Can Avery's attorney's do anything about it now?

you are right. they should have come back to it equally. There was a lot of stuff going on during the phone records due to the records not matching the states summary of what would be found on those records. Such as calls made in the morning of TH's that were not on the records I have seen, And then the 0 seconds the state was claiming SA's bill reflected when the bill reflected 18 seconds or something like that. With everything going on and the moving on so the judge could think about it. I'd probably forget to come back to it too. The point is the state should have looked into it during the investigation before arresting SA. They did not because their investigation was biased to convict SA.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

you are right. they should have come back to it equally. There was a lot of stuff going on during the phone records due to the records not matching the states summary of what would be found on those records. Such as calls made in the morning of TH's that were not on the records I have seen, And then the 0 seconds the state was claiming SA's bill reflected when the bill reflected 18 seconds or something like that. With everything going on and the moving on so the judge could think about it. I'd probably forget to come back to it too. The point is the state should have looked into it during the investigation before arresting SA. They did not because their investigation was biased to convict SA.

They arrested him because there was evidence that he killed her. Her body was in the pit burned, The blood in her car, the car on his lot is enough to charge him. They did not need the phone bill. That is just a bonus.

 

[MysticJynx]

You want me to give you a play by play as to how he did it? I can't. No body can. I don't need any of that to see that she was killed there, burned there and scattered around.
Her dna being on the bullet makes perfect sense if it went through her body. Was no one else in that garage for 4 months?? Could it be that someone else had kicked it around, Or moved something that freed it up? Could it have been missed? I don't know. That is not even the evidence that has me most convinced.
Her burned body in the fire pit is a big thing for me. Her car is there, covered up.. Not just parked somewhere to draw attention as it would be if someone else wanted it found.

Yeah it makes perfect sense her DNA was on the bullet cause they put it there. If it had projected through her body that bullet would have had BLOOD on it. It did not.
As for anyone being in the garage. Well the car in there changes when they enter 4 months later. So if people had access to that garage for 4 months while avery was in jail it could have been planted by anyone.
That bullet should never have even been admissible after the circumstance. Defense couldn't do their own test, they couldn't witness it but she can teach and talk all over important evidence. Then contaminate controls and we do not know what else, WE only know she contaminated her dna cause it wasnt teresas but she could have contaminated the bullet with dna too. We dont know what else she was contaminating while she was TEACHING. what a great teacher she taught her students its ok to contaminate and deviate from protocol if it will make sense to convict a man of their freedom. HAHA

 

[RANCH]

Isnt that the states theory, He and his nephew stabbed her cut her, brought her to the garage shot her, put her in the back of her car, then took her out then used the creeper to move her body to the pit all the while dripping blood. We know that at least, she was bleeding there is blood evidence. just none where they expect us to see it.

I think she was whacked in the head while standing at the back of her Rav4. but that is not the theory the state gave in its case against him.

If you think she was whacked in the head while standing at the back of the Rav4 there wouldn't be much blood evidence from Teresa at other locations.

That fits with what LE found. JMO

 

[diesel]

He first said he never saw her that day. Then later he said he did. That is a problem. Why change that story??
I agree the first case is a travesty. And I will be the first to admit some mistakes were made with this case in how it was handled but that does not change the amount of evidence that convicts this guy. Every one on that jury had to know he was the guy who was found innocent after being in jail forever. They were not going to send him back unless they were sure.

For me we have to start from here he is convicted. Now what makes us reverse that process.. and I don't see it. I see too much that points to him.

BBM.

Did he initially say he didn't see her that day? I don't remember. Who did he say that to?

Thanks.

 

[GigiG]

Well I don't want to discourage anyone from posting their thoughts and opinions. I don't own the thread but there is one specific for the guilty discussion thought id point those who think he is guilty to it. I just wish that some of you who think he is guilty would show me evidence that WASN'T tainted by manitowoc county being on this case. then I could maybe see him as guilty. But since the narrative for KK is the coerced confession of BD, its hard to find guilt in SA at least not the way they say it played out. He was making plans to go out with JS to an alcoholic substance abuse type of class. This did not happen, instead he talked to her twice that night in which he dont sound like hes in the process of a murder and clean up. He was on the phone that day with her parole officer and the substance abuse facility early that day. He made the appointment through Auto Trader. He didnt use 67 for that. He had her come out in the middle of a business day to his own property. Targeting someone I think you would be more secretive. Not just using *67 on two phone calls from one personal cell phone to another personal cell phone. I just cant fit the pieces the state gave me together to complete a picture they said they would in opening statements. In fact their opening said you would see how she was falsely imprisoned. That never came to be either. They did a good job at planting the evidence just not good enough for me to feel he is guilty. From testimony you have the bones in the tire wires, these were not even in the burn pit. They have them contaminating the scene with their own water bottles and cases of water. They have a key that seems to be staged just as much as the car was, Pictures are showing me that they staged it, the cabinet they shook and turned never moved from that position. They have her plates that were called in by AC on the 3rd rolled up in a station wagon right off the road coming up to SA's home. The burn barrel out across the little road. the can in that barrel is not melted but the camera, pda and phone are burnt to the point information could not be retrieved from them. Weird. You have bones in three areas on the property, One in the grass 8 feet south of the pit, off to the side of the pit IMO, the barrel behind the other house, and then 4th area bones are found are in the quarry. It doesnt suggest they were moved. THEY WERE MOVED! thats a fact. question is how and where and when since that cant be answered I can't conclude they were burnt where the state says they were. And they didnt bother to bring in the coroner or anthropologist to take pictures of the scene we just cant be sure they were even in the pit. The disrespected TH and her remains the way they handle them. That to me is huge, She was a person a human a loved one and they just shoved and sifted her into boxes and shipped her off to the crime lab, still sitting as evidence at Calumet County. What else is there the blood that was in the rav4. I do not trust the FBI guy. God I had a hard time even reading his testimony. He just wanted to spout all these big words and hear himself talk. Change his own answers and I just do not trust this guy. So to me he did not prove the blood was not from that vial, maybe someday there will be a test to say otherwise, but who knows. The fact is the Blood vial was in an unsecure location in the clerks office in an unsecured package that was not properly sealed the last time it was opened by Manitowoc in 2002. another reason to find them incompetent of doing their jobs. It left the blood available to be tampered with. Hole or not they had access to poke another needle through the same hole. What am I missing? They say that Netflix is a biased one side of this story. Well I have watched the one sided press conferences, and read the articles of biased towards the prosecution. Also anyone who does think hes guilty they should watch the show DID HE DO IT! first season first episode is about SA.

Hey Mystic, I agree with just about everything you say, but would like to give you a friendly reminder that paragraphs are your friend.

It's really hard to read a huge text block like this (especially online) when there's no break between thoughts.

 

[MysticJynx]

If you think she was whacked in the head while standing at the back of the Rav4 there wouldn't be much blood evidence from Teresa at other locations.

That fits with what LE found. JMO

But thats not their theory. I feel she was whacked in the back of the head and then unconscious she was rolled into it the blood got on that panel in the back and a lil on the carpet back there near the panel. But why put her in the back at all then. Unless you were driving away with her body in the car? or at least that's the only explanation i can reasonably come up with. That's why the accident matters. If she was in an accident that day maybe that is why she was standing at the back of her car giving culprit opportunity to whack her and push her in. Which would mean it happened most likely off the Avery property. I guess someone could have hit her on the property too. but then I dont think it would have been Avery.

 

[MysticJynx]

Hey Mystic, I agree with just about everything you say, but would like to give you a friendly reminder that paragraphs are your friend.

It's really hard to read a huge text block like this (especially online) when there's no break between thoughts.

Sorry hahahaha lol I will try harder to edit more. If I ever wrote a book I would need a really good editor. laughs

 

[MysticJynx]

BBM.

Did he initially say he didn't see her that day? I don't remember. Who did he say that to?

Thanks.

According to Sgt AC who didn't even write his report until Jun or July of the next year 2006. 8 months later. We should give him credit, it didn't take him 8 years this time. However I tend to believe Det. Wiegert's 11/3/05 report when it was still just a missing persons case. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...1/Trial-Exhibit-216-Wiegerts-Nov-3-Report.pdf

So he either said she showed up monday or he didnt know. Colborn dont seem to know what hes talking about. Also it is Colborn who tells him B.Janda is avery so how did they know that appointment was avery to send sgt colborn there and not to B.Janda. Cause someone printed a copy and did reverse directory and gave it to the detective. This person left off the last two calls of the day for some reason, leaves off several calls from earlier in the day, and calls in between some of the calls he listed.

Someone close to TH was pointing the police at Steven Avery even before the police connected B.Janda with Steve Avery. I would think that was important to ask how they came about this information and what was the reason for misleading the detective to think the last call was at 2:27 Not 4:35pm.