Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #5

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RANCH said:
Maybe the States theory is off and Avery hit Teresa in the back of the head.

Why would she be standing at the back of the car if the damage was in the front? JMO
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Someone put the broken light in the back of her car.
 
RANCH said:
Maybe the States theory is off and Avery hit Teresa in the back of the head.

Why would she be standing at the back of the car if the damage was in the front? JMO
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My wheel well is busted

Ok, lets take a look, where is the jack/tools?

In the trunk

??
 
MysticJynx said:
According to Sgt AC who didn't even write his report until Jun or July of the next year 2006. 8 months later. We should give him credit, it didn't take him 8 years this time. However I tend to believe Det. Wiegert's 11/3/05 report when it was still just a missing persons case. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...1/Trial-Exhibit-216-Wiegerts-Nov-3-Report.pdf
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So he either said she showed up monday or he didnt know. Colborn dont seem to know what hes talking about. Also it is Colborn who tells him B.Janda is avery so how did they know that appointment was avery to send sgt colborn there and not to B.Janda. Cause someone printed a copy and did reverse directory and gave it to the detective. This person left off the last two calls of the day for some reason, leaves off several calls from earlier in the day, and calls in between some of the calls he listed.
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Someone close to TH was pointing the police at Steven Avery even before the police connected B.Janda with Steve Avery. I would think that was important to ask how they came about this information and what was the reason for misleading the detective to think the last call was at 2:27 Not 4:35pm.
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I see what you mean. I would have to agree with Wiegert. Colborn not writing a report til 8 months later doesn't follow protocol one would believe. I would think that is important information to be written up immediately. Or to be recorded.
 
diesel said:
I see what you mean. I would have to agree with Wiegert. Colborn not writing a report til 8 months later doesn't follow protocol one would believe. I would think that is important information to be written up immediately. Or to be recorded.
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He was to busy getting his paperwork together to run for sheriff, that all had to be in by may 2006.
 
diesel said:
I see what you mean. I would have to agree with Wiegert. Colborn not writing a report til 8 months later doesn't follow protocol one would believe. I would think that is important information to be written up immediately. Or to be recorded.
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Right???? you would think after being disposed 3 weeks earlier about a report that he didn't write until 8 years later would have been his first friggen clue that reports need to be written right away!!!!!!
 
I've just caught up in this thread.... first off, Mystic.... you did a great job at pointing out exactly how a lot of us feel.... here and elsewhere. I don't think it's coincidence that there are a ton of people all over the internet sleuthing and looking at the evidence because they feel that the investigation was so poorly done, the possibility evidence planting, which leads to the doubts about his innocence or guilt. We are not the only one's that feel this way!

I think that there are some that have just watched the series and jumped on the innocence wagon before researching... there are also some who jumped on the guilty wagon because he was convicted, so it must mean he is guilty. If that was the case, he would have still been in jail for a rape that the same county railroaded him into a guilty verdict in 1985 IMO I think in both cases, if you are not researching and just relying on the verdict and the pre-trial information, you are doing yourself a dis-service and I pray to god that you or a loved one are not ever in the same situation.

Someone said that his own lawyers weren't sure of his guilt. That is wrong, Buting thinks he is innocent. Strang HOPES he is guilty so he isn't sitting in a jail wrongfully convicted AGAIN, but he will not say what he thinks, he doesn't know, but he does know that the trial was not fair and he feels that LE investigated this whole case with "tunnel vision"

As for anyone that says why would they frame him???? Why did they do it the first time????? They didn't like him, period.

Kratz.... he is a pig and to think that his behaviour doesn't have anything to do with this case.... go back and listen to that news conference, if you can stomach it, because I can't. Anyone that comes up with that narrative with absolutely NO PROOF of such happening, is sick IMO (I absolutely believe it was his story that he fed to those detectives before they interviewed BD) He's the biggest douche to come out of this whole thing IMO The way that he used his position to pray on vulnerable women.... picked the one's that wouldn't be good witnesses because they had a checkered past... he's a pig.

And as for discussing possibilities.... I think that is what this forum is for. We are not the only one's on the internet discussing this stuff.... I prefer to do it here at websleuths because of the format and the mods and the quality of the posters. For the most part, we are not just pulling these theories out of our butts... it's because things were or were not investigated, some were brought up in the trial, some were not (maybe they weren't allowed to for whatever reason). I say that maybe she got into an accident after she left the Avery property, and then planting of evidence came afterwards.... there is nothing in any of the information that we have that tells me that it is not a POSSIBILITY! It all goes back to how poorly it was investigated. IMO

I tried my best to add paragraphs LOL
And whoever asked.... yes I do sleep .... I'm a night owl.... but maybe not so much this week since I have to work Mon/Tues/Thurs ... but I still get to use my phone haha ;-)
 
Ok... I thought I was done after my last post... but it kinda got me going and I was sitting here talking with my hubby.... I really feel sorry for him at this point, because he has to listen to me *sigh*

I think I have figured out one of the reasons why this case really bothers me.... it's that damn Kratz and his "theory". Can you imagine that moment when her mother was sat down and Kratz or whoever told her what they think happened to Teresa? Just stop and think about that for a minute. Can you imagine that her family lives with those thoughts on a daily basis? How that must play out in their minds.... thinking that their daughter was raped and tortured before finally being shot in the head. Let that sink in. Now I'm going to tell you a small secret....

I am the relative of a victim of murder... an excruciatingly gruesome murder (think Canada... high profile... gruesome). This is something that we as a family live with on a daily basis. How I wish that there is a different narrative for "our story", how I wish that there was just a friggen glimmer of hope that it didn't happen the way they say it happened. 99.9% of me knows that there is no other story, but believe me, there is that 0.1% hope that someone someday comes forward and says, nope, we were wrong.

If nothing else comes from this case and this story.... I hope that Teresa's family gets the truth, even if we don't. I hope that they someday get someone come to them and tell them that they were wrong, because even if SA killed her, there is absolutely no evidence of her being raped and stabbed and throat slit and whatever else they made up. It is bad enough that she was murdered and she is gone, but to know that they must play that scenario out in their own minds daily, it's awful, I know this.
 
diesel said:
A cadaver dog, to my understanding, only hits on human remains or the smell. Tracking dogs only follow scents they are given to find and I haven't heard a tracking dog was used. If not, a real missed opportunity to see where she walked or if she was even in the trailer.
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Read on another thread that a good cadaver dog can pick up on decomp from ASHES!! ?/ Hwaaatttttttttttttt??
 
Madeleine74 said:
Excellent point, Ranch. The law the jury is instructed for proof is: 'beyond a reasonable doubt,' not 'beyond any and all possible doubt' or 'beyond any doubt I can think of whether it actually occurred or not,' or 'totally and completely 100% no doubt.'

Judges in fact instruct jurors that one can never totally and absolutely be without *any* possible doubt, as there is always something unknown. That's why the law is written the way it is.
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Great points! Completely take away the "key in the bedroom" evidence, the nephew & his confession(s) & the bullets in garage--- ask yourself would I have been able to let him walk? Not here..............
 
Missy I'm sorry for your loss. How awful. How awful this is too.

I feel so sorry for Teresa's family, especially her mother. I said much the same thing in my other post today in the SA poll thread.

I'm sure your hubby doesn't mind, but you made me lol feeling sorry for him.
 
MysticJynx said:
EXACTLY a lot of I don't knows. And that's what I am trying to figure out. Cold cases can be solved 30 years later. why not a wrongful conviction. The only way to get answers is to ask questions. The fact that you don't know these answers and ask no questions, what are you here for? we already know he is in jail and was found guilty by a jury of his peers. We already know the facts that pointed to guilt, hwat we are finding is that these facts that pointed to guilt also points to reasonable doubt. There is no way to say that bullet came for sure from that .22, there is no way to conclusively include Th's dna on that bullet since the analyst was contaminating things. Including her own control panel. if she contamintated that there is chance she contaminated the vial the bullet was in. or had the bullet next to her pap smear. We dont know. SHE DEVIATED. It is not ok to deviate when you are playing with someones liberties. their freedom. That is my opinion. Not like Gahn would have me believe. That sometimes you do have to deviate to make sense. NO if you cant make sense without deviating then throw it out. You are talking about a mans LIFE! DEVIATED from all the protocols. If they were so sure he was guilty why didnt they play this investigation BY THE BOOK. because they are hiding something. Like how the bones were not really in the pit but off to the side in the debris. The bones in more than one location 3 on the property and one site at the quarry. Or how the bookshelf never moved from the wall but it was shaken so hard it dislodged this key. PFFTT. JE the one who usually does all the piccture documentation couldn't do that on the BOnes. cause they were already ALTERED, the plates in that car, he couldnt cause they were already ALTERED. why was so much ALTERED before pictures were taken? The fact is this investigation in my opinion was messed up and there is nothing you can say that would make me believe one word of KK's theory of how this horrible crime took place. Jury or not, I think they are wrong. And KK proved himself to be one who abused his status as DA. And since he was sitting on the post trial motions of SA and BD at this time when he was an admitted drug addict should also give the two gentlemen another chance at their appeals that were denied while KK was on the case.
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I think you make valid points. I just think that BECAUSE you come from a different perspective it's harder for you to overlook stuff or let go of stuff that us "he's guilty!" ppl can easily let go of or think is IMPOSSIBLE to figure out now. So we toss it into a mental "who knows?" file and move on. Maybe a list should be compiled for KZ by your side of the fence? Compile everything that you as "potential jurors" on a new trial ( ie: Steve Avery supporters) would need answers to. I'm sure her team could use the help narrowing everything down. I'm sure they read this site, but wrap it up nicely for them with a group effort. I can guarantee you guys are thinking of things they haven't even thought of yet!
 
And whoever asked.... yes I do sleep .... I'm a night owl.... but maybe not so much this week since I have to work Mon/Tues/Thurs ... but I still get to use my phone haha ;-)

It was me, and I was just mucking about, you two made me lol talking about having to feed the fams.
 
LifeCitizen said:
Missy I'm sorry for your loss. How awful. How awful this is too.

I feel so sorry for Teresa's family, especially her mother. I said much the same thing in my other post today in the SA poll thread.

I'm sure your hubby doesn't mind, but you made me lol feeling sorry for him.
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Thanks... and yes, my poor hubby just nods and smiles LOL But I was talking to him about my own family and just how I wish my mother, and my grandmother (when she was alive) didn't have to live with those thoughts. It really is awful. I hope that even if her family believes 100% that he is guilty, I hope they have some doubts about how it all happened and they are looking at the other possibilities of how he could have done this with very minimal pain and suffering to TH. (I hope that makes sense? lol)
 
MysticJynx said:
Good luck with???? your not really doing anything here but spouting his guilt. That everyone already knows was the outcome of the verditt. So good luck with not contributing anything insightful.
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I was just thinking something along these lines.... in GENERAL. We think he's guilty. Some think he's innocent. We can sit back and let KZ do the work for us because we have the verdict we want. You cannot, because the burden has fallen on his supporters. Accused has burden to prove innocence. vs. WE having to prove his guilt. I suppose that was officially "done" (from our perspective), so I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say about our criminal justice system here. I suppose this is the case with any conviction and subsequent appeal. Happens all the time-- but already convicted or not and despite the fact that I feel that he is guilty, I feel your pain. Because I can still agree that he was not given the presumption of innocence. I get irritated with ppl speaking up for him and splitting hairs that don't need splitting-- GUILTY! But please press on and I applaud your efforts. I won't speak for others that think he's guilty on here, but I'd love to be proven wrong if he is innocent. It's not about Steven Avery for me. He effects my life at a rate of zero feks per second. It's about the system. Our rights. That's the biggest thing I took away from this documentary.

P.S. sleep deprived fyi
 
First of all thank you for sharing missy, that couldn't have been easy. I am sorry for loss.

My thoughts are too with Teresa, I have not forgotten about her. I feel that she deserves the truth to come out also. A truth that doesn't leave her memory in a limbo situation, now that everyone is talking about the corruption seen first hand. They really should have done everything by the book, for Teresa's sake. I still can't get over the way they handled the poor girls remains. That to me was the most important of all things found at the Averys and they just did a horrible job at respecting them, while also collecting evidence to what happened to her. Shame on Man Co., Cal Co. and The DOJ who was involved in her case.
 
RANCH said:
The State did not owe Avery anything during the investigation of Teresa Halbach's murder.

They only owed her justice. The jury imposed that justice when they found Steven Avery guilty.

JMO
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Yes, they owed Teresa Halbach justice. When exactly was she shown that? When they got on television and gave that murder *advertiser censored* Fairy Tale in a press conference that left her loved ones with the blazing, in-depth memories of her torture, rape, and murder? Of which there was absolutely ZERO proof of, other than a bullet that was contaminated and should never have been accepted into court? Or how about all the justice they showed her when they shoveled her cremains up into buckets to later be boxed up and delivered to the medical examiner's office as if she was just another UPS package to be dropped off? Yea, Teresa was shown a whole lot of justice, wasn't she?
 
pleasestandby said:
One could use that reasoning on several of the witnesses who never mentioned a bonfire in their first statements. Their stories kept changing, including the testimony on the stand.
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Just an fyi... I don't think there is any proof of that statement "he said he never saw her that day". He never denied it according to the police reports and Colborn who did his report months later. That was again Kratz.
 
ScarlettScarpetta said:
That is not even the evidence that has me most convinced.
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Let me first say that I think he is guilty--I have from day one and I will until something proves to me otherwise. But, I think most everyone on this site--knows how I feel and I know how they feel---but we agree to respectfully disagree. I think the most important thing is to keep an open mind. I'm sure many people thought without a doubt those 17 people that KZ exonerated felt the person is prison was absolutely without a doubt the person who committed the crime. I think most people on this site put forth ideas, thoughts, possibilities to bounce them off each other to further their beliefs. (whether that is he is guilty or innocent) I think the ultimate goal for everyone on here is righteousness--and that is to make sure the person who did the crime is punished.

With that being said--how do you know that bullet (evidence) wasn't the most compelling thing that a juror used to convict him? Just because it didn't hold any weight for you doesn't mean it didn't hold any weight a a juror.
 
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