Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery
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JudyBolton
In memory: My dear friend Martha Mickel, kidnapped
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Has the camera been discussed? I found that one more disturbing little tidbit that was never explained. The sheriff's deputies gave a camera to only ONE searcher - only the cousin who just happened to find the vehicle within a few minutes of arriving on acres and acres of vehicles. TOO many strange coincidences - makes my hinkey meter go off the charts!!!
matou
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I don't know what took longer, watching the entire docuseries or getting through the 78 pages of this thread LOL
This whole thing has my head spinning. I am still not sure of my opinion of guilty or not honestly.. I walked away from the show thinking he was totally innocent but some things I am reading do pose some serious questions that make me wonder otherwise.
To me, this seems like the worst processed "crime scene" I have ever heard of. The RAV4 seems to have no LE processing around it at all, right? No pictures from the scene taken by the police. No attempt at processing the items that were 'hiding it'. How about tire tracks leading there? Foot prints to and from? It wasn't just lowered there. If a sled were to be dragged behind the cart SURELY that would leave deep marks in the ground. This is October in WI.. it's muddy and the ground is soft.
Another thing I am wondering about is the fire pit. IF a body were to be burned in there - 1) I think it would take one hell of a fire and more time than a few hours to bring the body to the cremain state they were found in BUT 2) Wouldn't some sort of forensics be able to be performed on the ground to confirm this? The body fat would seep into the soil below one would think (especially if there was still muscle tissue attached to some).
As repeated over and over in this thread - I'm on the 'Where is the blood' bus. Lord knows, not a single person on that property is capable of cleaning a crime scene like this. Bleach, no bleach, gas, turpentine - I don't care what they used.. There were far too many variables all around (items in the house, garage, grass/ground when moving the body - heck even their own clothes and shoes). Just no.
One thing that is bothering me is Theresa's video, I think it was in episode 1. Does that not strike anyone else as strange? If I were to die, not saying I want to die, but if I WERE to die - I lived a happy life. ?!??!? What the heck?? Kind of sounds to me like she was thinking she might die soon, either at her own hand or someone else? Just weird.
On that note.. I find it hard to believe that LE would just take her out for set up. I do think, however, if they were to *find* her dead (from her own hand or not) it would be a super convenient answer to the impending payout looming and the mud on their faces from the wrongful conviction. Now.. why she would be going about her day and doing her job and just decide to off herself makes no sense to me.. but who knows. Accidental shooting from hunters? Possible - but I think Oct 31 is still bow season.
Anyway.. just thinking out loud. I came back to WS to think this through with ya'll. I can't handle reading anon internet posts on news articles.. some people post with zero research.. it's painful to weed through those.
I really think, even since the Anthony verdict.. being judged by a jury of your peers is no longer going to work as well as it once did. People just don't care enough anymore. It's all about them - they don't care, they want to go home and whatever it takes to get the heck out of there is what they'll do. It's sad but it really seems like it's the case more and more.
ETA - I'm from WI.. and we prefer 'cheese heads'
Thank you for mentioning the video! It's been the thing that made me immediately feel she could have killed herself. It's so strange. She could have driven off to the woods and left her vehicle somewhere where it was ID'd by the cops. A death by suicide could have been made to look like a homicide by burning the body and breaking up the bones. Also, the term 'cremains' is usually used to mean remains from cremation, not from a body being burned in a fire outside. This term is used in the doc but may not be accurate. The lack of blood made me think of funerary preparation, removal of blood from the deceased. Cremains come from cremation, again a funerary practice. I really think someone in the funerary field could add to the discussion about this.
JudyBolton
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I keep asking my friends to watch this so we can talk about it. I came here for the same reason... I'm usually a big supporter of L.E. and want to give them the benefit of the doubt ~ but this is just TOO strange...I am frankly flabbergasted that the judges can look in the mirror (all of them - the original and the appellate judges)!
catswhiskers
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I don't know what took longer, watching the entire docuseries or getting through the 78 pages of this thread LOL
This whole thing has my head spinning. I am still not sure of my opinion of guilty or not honestly.. I walked away from the show thinking he was totally innocent but some things I am reading do pose some serious questions that make me wonder otherwise.
To me, this seems like the worst processed "crime scene" I have ever heard of. The RAV4 seems to have no LE processing around it at all, right? No pictures from the scene taken by the police. No attempt at processing the items that were 'hiding it'. How about tire tracks leading there? Foot prints to and from? It wasn't just lowered there. If a sled were to be dragged behind the cart SURELY that would leave deep marks in the ground. This is October in WI.. it's muddy and the ground is soft.
Another thing I am wondering about is the fire pit. IF a body were to be burned in there - 1) I think it would take one hell of a fire and more time than a few hours to bring the body to the cremain state they were found in BUT 2) Wouldn't some sort of forensics be able to be performed on the ground to confirm this? The body fat would seep into the soil below one would think (especially if there was still muscle tissue attached to some).
As repeated over and over in this thread - I'm on the 'Where is the blood' bus. Lord knows, not a single person on that property is capable of cleaning a crime scene like this. Bleach, no bleach, gas, turpentine - I don't care what they used.. There were far too many variables all around (items in the house, garage, grass/ground when moving the body - heck even their own clothes and shoes). Just no.
One thing that is bothering me is Theresa's video, I think it was in episode 1. Does that not strike anyone else as strange? If I were to die, not saying I want to die, but if I WERE to die - I lived a happy life. ?!??!? What the heck?? Kind of sounds to me like she was thinking she might die soon, either at her own hand or someone else? Just weird.
On that note.. I find it hard to believe that LE would just take her out for set up. I do think, however, if they were to *find* her dead (from her own hand or not) it would be a super convenient answer to the impending payout looming and the mud on their faces from the wrongful conviction. Now.. why she would be going about her day and doing her job and just decide to off herself makes no sense to me.. but who knows. Accidental shooting from hunters? Possible - but I think Oct 31 is still bow season.
Anyway.. just thinking out loud. I came back to WS to think this through with ya'll. I can't handle reading anon internet posts on news articles.. some people post with zero research.. it's painful to weed through those.
I really think, even since the Anthony verdict.. being judged by a jury of your peers is no longer going to work as well as it once did. People just don't care enough anymore. It's all about them - they don't care, they want to go home and whatever it takes to get the heck out of there is what they'll do. It's sad but it really seems like it's the case more and more.
ETA - I'm from WI.. and we prefer 'cheese heads'
You've made lots of good points in this post.
It would be great to know the background of the "I feel loved ..." video made by Teresa, and who its intended audience was when it was made. We've only seen a snippet of it obviously - I wonder if it was uploaded online somewhere, or just sent to those close to her at the time. Part of me thinks it's the kind of clip someone might make if they might be either very ill, or planning to leave their family and friends for a new beginning somewhere else. I don't feel like it sounds like someone planning to end their own life, unless of course that ties in with being terminally ill or similar.
TheDuchess
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...don-Making-Murderer-subject-Steven-Avery.html
Two online petitions demanding the pardon of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey, the subjects of the new Netflix series Making a Murderer, have received more than 150,000 signatures.
The 10-episode documentary revolving around Avery and Dassey's murder trial for a 25-year-old woman's murder in Manitowoc, Wisconsin has become a sensation over the holidays.
Both petitions have directly appealed to President Obama to pardon the two men, who were both convicted in March 2007 in the death of freelance photographer Teresa Halbach."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...derer-subject-Steven-Avery.html#ixzz3wFOnhrE0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Two online petitions demanding the pardon of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey, the subjects of the new Netflix series Making a Murderer, have received more than 150,000 signatures.
The 10-episode documentary revolving around Avery and Dassey's murder trial for a 25-year-old woman's murder in Manitowoc, Wisconsin has become a sensation over the holidays.
Both petitions have directly appealed to President Obama to pardon the two men, who were both convicted in March 2007 in the death of freelance photographer Teresa Halbach."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...derer-subject-Steven-Avery.html#ixzz3wFOnhrE0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
TheDuchess
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Random thoughts that ran through my head throughout the day today:
1.) Not trying to be mean, but for a short, funny-looking, simpleton, Steven Avery certainly had some game. I mean, he managed to have several nice looking ladies in his life that seemed quite devoted to him for quite a while. I mean, he comes from a strange family, lives in a trailer in a salvage yard, has a low IQ, etc... The reason I say this is that to me, it hints that he must have had some redeeming qualities and not the complete degenerate so many seem to want to make him out to be.
2.) As far as his character, I wonder why we never heard much about his behavior while in prison - both times. I mean, the most recent time, he earned himself a transfer to a less restrictive place where his family and loved ones could have actual physical contact with him, which says a lot, really. And Brandan too. He seems to be doing well, working on his studies, seemingly staying out of trouble. I feel for that poor kid. Just such a simple, unassuming child, even as a man. This boy couldn't hurt a fly. How can anyone not see that? And it really ticked me off that the one investigator (was it Fassbender) that stated he felt he was suspicious because he wouldn't make eye contact? It is apparent this boy is shyer than shy and was a nervous wreck throughout every interview.
3.) I too, am frustrated that none of my friends are watching this!!! I've been trying. I did manage to get my husband to watch the first 3 episodes and he was also pretty riled up about it, but it's difficult to talk to him since he hasn't watched the entire thing yet.
4.) I keep thinking about the poster who made the comment about the father telling the producers about the lettuce and his comment that "you guys like lettuce, right?" I really don't think that was meant in a sexual way at all, as I think it is a huge leap to put that together. I think if the producers would have found it offensive, I think they would have likely left it out, no? But even still, just wondering if maybe they were health nuts or even vegetarians and that might be why he said something like that. I would imagine that the producers became friendly on a personal level with these people after spending so much time with them over the years. Honestly, the mother and father came across to me a simple, sweet, loyal, loving parents and grandparents. They didn't seem in denial, they seemed to feel 100% confident in both men's innocence all along. And they seemed to make it to every court date, hearing, etc...even when they seemed to just be at the end of their ropes - and tried all along to be as positive and supportive as humanely possible.
5.) I believe Steven. Listening to his recordings, interviews, etc...he is steadfastly and matter-of-factly proclaiming his innocence from the very beginning. I never heard any inconsistencies in any of his statements. He was the same man proclaiming his innocence from the first case. He said all along that they weren't going to find anything and literally predicted how the entire thing would go down.
6.) People don't like to make a lot about the fact that he wouldn't do something like this if he was waiting on the payout. I totally disagree. I believe the lawsuit was the very crux of this case from the very beginning. Steven Avery had absolutely no motive to do this. The state had every motive to try to throw the whole thing at him.
7.) The victim's brother - I feel for him. What a standup guy. Again - every court date, every hearing, every media interview. You could see the deep love he had for his sister and his grief and his strength in defending her honor and seeking justice for her. He also seems extremely intelligent. That is what made it so difficult for me watching him be so steadfastly confident in both men's guilt. I felt, how can he not see what is going on here? There is simply not enough evidence. That is what made me truly believe that there was a lot of discussion behind the scenes by the authorities, telling the family every little dirty detail and rumor they had, as if it were all true. What would someone unrelated to the area think after learning what Krutz and crew were telling him? And who else could they possibly trust to find justice for their sister? I hope that someday the truth is realized again and that this family can have true justice and true answers, because this is NOT the truth.
8.) Finally, am I the only one that finds herself speaking in this crazy accent they all have? Yah, sure, ya know? LOL! Feels like watching Fargo.
1.) Not trying to be mean, but for a short, funny-looking, simpleton, Steven Avery certainly had some game. I mean, he managed to have several nice looking ladies in his life that seemed quite devoted to him for quite a while. I mean, he comes from a strange family, lives in a trailer in a salvage yard, has a low IQ, etc... The reason I say this is that to me, it hints that he must have had some redeeming qualities and not the complete degenerate so many seem to want to make him out to be.
2.) As far as his character, I wonder why we never heard much about his behavior while in prison - both times. I mean, the most recent time, he earned himself a transfer to a less restrictive place where his family and loved ones could have actual physical contact with him, which says a lot, really. And Brandan too. He seems to be doing well, working on his studies, seemingly staying out of trouble. I feel for that poor kid. Just such a simple, unassuming child, even as a man. This boy couldn't hurt a fly. How can anyone not see that? And it really ticked me off that the one investigator (was it Fassbender) that stated he felt he was suspicious because he wouldn't make eye contact? It is apparent this boy is shyer than shy and was a nervous wreck throughout every interview.
3.) I too, am frustrated that none of my friends are watching this!!! I've been trying. I did manage to get my husband to watch the first 3 episodes and he was also pretty riled up about it, but it's difficult to talk to him since he hasn't watched the entire thing yet.
4.) I keep thinking about the poster who made the comment about the father telling the producers about the lettuce and his comment that "you guys like lettuce, right?" I really don't think that was meant in a sexual way at all, as I think it is a huge leap to put that together. I think if the producers would have found it offensive, I think they would have likely left it out, no? But even still, just wondering if maybe they were health nuts or even vegetarians and that might be why he said something like that. I would imagine that the producers became friendly on a personal level with these people after spending so much time with them over the years. Honestly, the mother and father came across to me a simple, sweet, loyal, loving parents and grandparents. They didn't seem in denial, they seemed to feel 100% confident in both men's innocence all along. And they seemed to make it to every court date, hearing, etc...even when they seemed to just be at the end of their ropes - and tried all along to be as positive and supportive as humanely possible.
5.) I believe Steven. Listening to his recordings, interviews, etc...he is steadfastly and matter-of-factly proclaiming his innocence from the very beginning. I never heard any inconsistencies in any of his statements. He was the same man proclaiming his innocence from the first case. He said all along that they weren't going to find anything and literally predicted how the entire thing would go down.
6.) People don't like to make a lot about the fact that he wouldn't do something like this if he was waiting on the payout. I totally disagree. I believe the lawsuit was the very crux of this case from the very beginning. Steven Avery had absolutely no motive to do this. The state had every motive to try to throw the whole thing at him.
7.) The victim's brother - I feel for him. What a standup guy. Again - every court date, every hearing, every media interview. You could see the deep love he had for his sister and his grief and his strength in defending her honor and seeking justice for her. He also seems extremely intelligent. That is what made it so difficult for me watching him be so steadfastly confident in both men's guilt. I felt, how can he not see what is going on here? There is simply not enough evidence. That is what made me truly believe that there was a lot of discussion behind the scenes by the authorities, telling the family every little dirty detail and rumor they had, as if it were all true. What would someone unrelated to the area think after learning what Krutz and crew were telling him? And who else could they possibly trust to find justice for their sister? I hope that someday the truth is realized again and that this family can have true justice and true answers, because this is NOT the truth.
8.) Finally, am I the only one that finds herself speaking in this crazy accent they all have? Yah, sure, ya know? LOL! Feels like watching Fargo.
TheDuchess
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It sounded to me like it might have been part of an assignment in college or something. Was she a journalism major of some sort? Or psychology? She certainly didn't seem sad when discussing her death. Just wistful and contemplative. I am glad we were able to see the video. It made her real. She seemed like a wonderful young woman.
Ava Adore
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http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...umentary-s-subject-steven-avery-a6790546.html
Sorry if this has been posted.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Sorry if this has been posted.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
catswhiskers
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Great post TheDuchess - agreed on all points, especially 4 & 5.
I know for sure that watching two seasons of Fargo helped me follow the dialogue in some parts of the documentary
I know for sure that watching two seasons of Fargo helped me follow the dialogue in some parts of the documentary
Ava Adore
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MaxManning, did you see this one? The filmmakers mention accusations of leaving things out.
http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=73172
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http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=73172
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
catswhiskers
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Good thinking re some sort of assignment. Have you only seen the parts of the video shown in the documentary, or is it available for viewing elsewhere? I feel like I might have missed some parts of it. I've watched the series twice now, but I do tend to multitask while viewing. I was determined to take particular notice of key parts the second time around, but have still managed to miss things it seems.
TheDuchess
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http://www.funeralplan.com/obits/view.html?action=view&id=55460
According to Teresa's obituary she was actually a photography major and graduated summa *advertiser censored* laude. She also seemed active in her church community, so maybe it was a retreat of some sort. It could have even been a friend's project that perhaps was interviewing several people they knew. I got the feeling it wasn't her video, but that she was the person being interviewed in someone else's film or video.
catswhiskers
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I've seen that posted before - possibly here, and definitely on other sites. It seems nothing has come of it yet, and I'm pretty sure the twitter usernames mentioned were discredited. I don't think it would be a bad thing if the real Anonymous organisation did assist with finding and releasing some additional information to the public though.
c@rol
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#3 I was shocked how many of mine are. I posted on FB about it and actually have quite the little debate happening on my status.
#4 I've never heard lettuce as a reference to lady parts or lesbians.. that was a new one to me. I don't think he meant that either.
#5 This sticks with me as well. He's not that good of an actor. After spending 10hrs listening to him, you get to sort of know his demeanor. It's hard for me to fathom that being faked.
#6 Totally agree. Major Motive.
#8 Yah hey dere..you have a problem with WI accents do ya? lol I do find myself speaking like them quite often yet
TheDuchess
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Wondering if anyone knows the following information:
1.) The link to the confirmed official facebook page for the Avery family
2.) The link (or information) to the organization that put forth the story about the woman who had moved to the area the day of the murder and her husband was acting strangely and she felt he had something to do with Teresa's murder
TIA
1.) The link to the confirmed official facebook page for the Avery family
2.) The link (or information) to the organization that put forth the story about the woman who had moved to the area the day of the murder and her husband was acting strangely and she felt he had something to do with Teresa's murder
TIA
Soulmagent
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I do not have the facebook link . That is a 4 day search it looks like. There must be 100's of facebook pages on there .
Here is the other one you ask for.
http://www.convolutedbrian.com/an-alternative.html
LemonMousse
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Great post, and I agree with every word.
I've always hesitated to say this because I realise it sounds lame.....but his innocence shone through to me in those taped police interviews. He was frustrated more than angry. He wasn't trying to lay out a story which, if he was guilty, he would have to have cooked up in advance. He was adding no superfluous details...the great tell of a liar....he was simply answering the questions with a rising sense of frustration and controlled panic.
Of course, all we saw was a few moments from probably hours of interviews and I am aware of that but his calls from prison had the same sense of frustration....and a certain amount of resignation.
Also, I've been thinking about Colborn and his first discussion with Steven...the one where he said Steven said he'd never spoken to Teresa. I don't think Colborn was lying, actually.
Remember the first media interview Steven gave? He's asked if Teresa said where she was going afterwards and he said, "Not really. She always just took the photos, came and got the money and left".
I can imagine that if he gave Colborn the same sort of answer this could easily translate into, "He said he didn't speak to her".
And....Steven asking for Teresa again. She was self-employed, presumably paid a commission from Auto Trader.
Steven: Oh, we'll be putting in another ad for another car in a few weeks.
Teresa: That's fine. Just call the office and ask for me and I'll come by again, no problem.
I am pretty sure every person working on a commission will have said this to a customer at some point.
So he asks for her again.....and this proves he's sexually obsessed with her!
No evidence of stalkerish phone calls from him before that day and when he asks for her he apparently doesn't even know her name even though he's seen her 6 times before! That's a very low key sexual obsession, huh?
ziggy
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The message was left on Barb's answering machine. Even though SA put the transaction name as Barb Janda, TH was not confused because she told her coworker she was headed to the Averys. She'd been there at least 4 times before. SA requested that same girl, but if he was so obsessed with her, why didn't he know her name?
LemonMousse
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https://mobile.twitter.com/jbuting
(Hope that link works).
Jerry Buting has retweeted an interesting theory regarding Colborn and the finding of the car.
Mike, Ryan and Scott find it in the middle of the night.
They call the Sheriff's dept and get Colborn.
He comes out but there are no plates...so he asks them if they know the licence plate number.
They tell him, and he calls it in to be sure it's the right car
They give him the spare key they've brought with them and he says, "Leave it to me".
Thing is.....surely under these circumstances Colborn could legitimately call it in because he had a good reason for going on to the site?
I know the three were technically trespassing...but would anyone care?
(Hope that link works).
Jerry Buting has retweeted an interesting theory regarding Colborn and the finding of the car.
Mike, Ryan and Scott find it in the middle of the night.
They call the Sheriff's dept and get Colborn.
He comes out but there are no plates...so he asks them if they know the licence plate number.
They tell him, and he calls it in to be sure it's the right car
They give him the spare key they've brought with them and he says, "Leave it to me".
Thing is.....surely under these circumstances Colborn could legitimately call it in because he had a good reason for going on to the site?
I know the three were technically trespassing...but would anyone care?
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