Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[dexter75]

How would they delete their own vm though?
Hmmm...
Ya don't think T's family would have done that to take any suspicion off of them??
Brother already looks suspicious imo as does ex.

 

[Brightbird]

Could Charles Avery have been the one calling Teresa and harassing her over and over? Per her co worker.
Maybe the brother and the ex had knowledge of this and when sis came up missing, and later murdered, those boys were going to make sure the Avery's paid! Especially once that vehicle was located. Maybe, they didn't know WHICH person from the Salvage yard was calling, but knew the calls were coming from from there. Maybe the deleted VM's were indeed one of those men who just happened to be obsessed with her?

But how could the ex or brother have gotten Steven's blood to put in the car?

 

[Ava Adore]

The reason the police theorized the garage is because of what Barb Janda said. She is the one who introduced bleach, brendan's pants , and that brendans said he was helping steve steve clean his garage floor with bleach, leading them to believe it was a potential murder location.

Luminol testing finds blood. Bleach cleans the blood and destroys blood evidence - that's the point!

I keep saying this is the one detail that is still very hard for me to get past. It was not the police that just theorized that Brendan and Steve were cleaning the floor. Brendan told that to his mom before any investigation even began and Barb was ever aware of a missing person. Barb didn't recognize the significance of what she said when she told the police, but that's why I see it is very likely the truth.

Does it mean they were cleaning up blood ? nope. But isn't it something that needs to be explained ?

I don't see any of Steve's testimony stating he cleaned anything up in the garage. Now brendan says he was never in the garage that night. So... what is most likely the truth ?

What brendan told barb that night ? Or whatever everyone is saying now that all the evidence is out there and they can choose to say whatever implicates them the least ?

Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but I thought they said when they broke up the concrete in the garage, they were looking for blood and cleaning products?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Ava Adore]

I didn't find her brother suspicious, I just found him a bit hard headed and not willing to hear anything but what he believed.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[MaxManning]

How would they delete their own vm though?
Hmmm...
Ya don't think T's family would have done that to take any suspicion off of them??
Brother already looks suspicious imo as does ex.

Whoever killed Teresa, had her phone. They could have deleted the voicemails right from her phone. right ?

 

[MaxManning]

Maybe I'm remembering this wrong, but I thought they said when they broke up the concrete in the garage, they were looking for blood and cleaning products?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

I thought I remembered hearing that too, I'll see if I can find it. I don't remember if that they found traces or not.

 

[Ringfinger]

He used his sister's name because it was her van. That is in the appeal docs that I posted. That makes sense to me now.

Read those docs and tell me if you think Chuckie or Steve would be more likely be a danger to her based on what we know about their pasts ? They both were there and both knew teresa was there.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery documents 1-22.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery document page 23 +.pdf

After reading these documents one thing is clear, I would not feel safe letting any woman go near that yard EVER. Those documents definitely shine a light on a few people. Thank you.

Why was Earl hiding under sheets?
Chuckle ? Get real. Creep City.

Anyone looking for valuable insight should read these links. Thank you for posting them.

My current thinking is, there are more than one viable suspect in this case.
(IMO) someone from that property had killed Teresa (possibly SA in a different scenario)The police immediately and understandably suspect SA. Some evidence could have been altered for the purpose of strengthening their case.

I feel like there's something missing from Brendan.

For me, he most significant part about the bleach jeans story would be how it clashes with sA's account of what happened that night.

It seems like the only really innocent person in this case is Teresa.

 

[MaxManning]

Ok, first I want to give a link to the transcript for the documentary, because if you are like me you don't want to go searching through the actual documentary video on netflix.

http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewforum.php?f=524

Epidsode 6 is the only place that bleach is discussed and really only mentioned once. There is no mention of a test to find bleach, but just noting that if someone bleached the floor you wouldn't expect to find any DNA on that floor. The point he was making is they did find Steve Avery's blood on the garage floor.

But this is all just defense talk, I get it. The issue is that if there was one spot on the floor that had the victim's blood, they'd only clean that one spot, they wouldn't necessarily clean the whole garage floor. Steve Avery's blood on the floor in some location in the garage is not unreasonable and doesn't mean that a pool of the victims blood in another location couldn't be cleaned up without cleaning the whole garage.

I once again will note that if we assume that blood spatter is as the defense described, then sure... I agree with the idea that it's hard to clean up as it'd be tiny spots all over the place.

But, all it takes is a pillow or something of that nature over the head of the victim and shooting with no blood splatter is achieved.

So I think my dilemna still exists that I believe that either Brendan lied to his mom about cleaning the floor with bleach or it really happened. I just don't see why Brendan would lie about something like that. His mom asks him why he has bleach on his pants and he tells her. She has no idea there has been a murder at that point, so it doesn't raise a red flag to her at all. When interviewed by police she mentions it, because she has no idea of it's significance.

To my knowledge , I don't know of a test that would show if a floor has been bleached and how recently. But denying that you bleached the floor on the night of a murder when someone with no reason to be deceptive recalls that being the case. That's a red flag for me.

 

[MaxManning]

After reading these documents one thing is clear, I would not feel safe letting any woman go near that yard EVER. Those documents definitely shine a light on a few people. Thank you.

Why was Earl hiding under sheets?
Chuckle ? Get real. Creep City.

Anyone looking for valuable insight should read these links. Thank you for posting them.

My current thinking is, there are more than one viable suspect in this case.
(IMO) someone from that property had killed Teresa (possibly SA in a different scenario)The police immediately and understandably suspect SA. Some evidence could have been altered for the purpose of strengthening their case.

I feel like there's something missing from Brendan.

For me, he most significant part about the bleach jeans story would be how it clashes with sA's account of what happened that night.

It seems like the only really innocent person in this case is Teresa.

Agree completely.

As I said earlier, I think it has to be evaluated that Brendan might actually be more afraid of Scott Tadych - his stepdad - than steve avery. It's possible that tadych is the one he helped move a body. If you read about tadych, you know that a co-worker reported tadych leaving work the day steven is arrested a nervous wreck and mentioning blood on his kid's pants and being mixed in with his laundry.

If this is true... is that not just a bit odd ?

This case is so bizarre, and that junkyard seems to be a cesspool for shifty characters. I think you could have likely convicted any one of these guys with a given jury and very little evidence and just a tiny bit of convincing. jmo

 

[Ringfinger]

Here's the tricky part about the blood angle. I don't see a scenario where SA is leaving blood in various places from a finger cut, but a victim is not leaving any from at least two bullets wounds in the head. If someone was able to remove that blood from the garage, why wouldn't they think to remove... The pile of bones in the fire pit, the blood in the rav4, or the burn barrel left overs. My point is that it doesn't add up.

 

[MaxManning]

Here's the tricky part about the blood angle. I don't see a scenario where SA is leaving blood in various places from a finger cut, but a victim is not leaving any from at least two bullets wounds in the head. If someone was able to remove that blood from the garage, why wouldn't they think to remove... The pile of bones in the fire pit, the blood in the rav4, or the burn barrel left overs. My point is that it doesn't add up.

Well, think about this. Suppose the murderer is wearing gloves ? Now, if you had on a pair of cloth gloves or something that absorbs blood, such as typical work gloves, the blood doesn't necessarily drip. But anything you touch, might get transfer blood on it. Try it with a pair of gloves if you want, using something of the same consistency as blood and not actual blood obviously

You will see what I mean. That would explain to me how there are no prints in the van, but blood smudges in places you'd expect -- like near the ignition. That is a place where his cut right hand might make contact with the area around the ignition. I'll have to find the picture of the smudge and try to examine it better and I can't remember where exactly avery's cut was on his hand, but I believe it was the knuckles.

Once again, let me say that I am not saying this is what I believe happened, but rather just explaining what I think is plausible.

In terms of the bones I have been thinking about that alot, because it's the one piece of evidence that does make me suspect Scott Tadych, Chuck, or Earl might have been the killer. I agree that it just seems unlikely that someone would leave the bones right in their fire pit so it could be connected to them. But it is a very good plan for someone taking advantage of the fact that law enforcement thought it was Steve from the getgo. Finding some bone fragments in another location - near the Janda place I believe - seems to make Tadych a likely suspect if that was the case. Not that Chuck or Earl couldn't have done the same thing.

Leaving the car on the property is also seemingly the dumbest thing he could possibly do. But again fits the framing via someone else on the property -- not just police.

Also, we don't know if the bones in the pit were just sitting out. Were they possibly buried ? Is it possible that someone might think that if they buried them in the pit they might not be discovered ? I don't know. If they were indeed on the top in plain sight, then I think you are right. But I just don't know if that was the case. A cadaver dog can smell remains buried 15 feet underground. I wasn't aware of that.

So I would like to better understand how they found those bones and if they were buried or just out on top. How some bone fragments got to the other locations ? that's a good question. I think it points to the other suspects possibly framing as I said.

I am going to try and find more info about the bones if I can.

EDIT - Forgot to mention why victim wasn't leaving blood everywhere. Say that Rav4 is in the garage. I am assuming this is the case, as he'd not want to have someone say they seen the car outside his place at that point. So, in the garage he puts pillow or clothes or something over her head, shoots 2 times. No blood spatter. Now they move the body into the Rav4. We know that she was in the Rav4 before burning because there is blood in the Rav4. Drives the Rav4 to the burn site -- why ? so that they aren't dripping blood all the way to the burn pit , which means cleaning up more. At the burn site the body is removed and put on the fire. Whatever gloves you were using to carry here, onto the fire. Her clothes as well, which might have been used to sop up some blood on the floor etc.

After she's on the fire, at some point they clean the garage floor.

I think all of that is plausible and makes sense. And... the only places there is avery blood is where it makes sense that his knuckles might come into contact with something -- ie ignition. Make sense ?

Also, I don't think anything I said here requires any sophisticated means. A pair of gloves, some bleach, and a fire. right ?

example of work gloves with cloth on knuckles, which is where avery's cut was -- http://www.harborfreight.com/media/...b33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_18774.jpg

 

[MaxManning]

Was wondering about this...

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/

This article notes that Earl Avery is the one who lets the women who found the Rav4 onto the car lot. - So is it possible he pointed them in a direction ?

Another blurb that gives us some description about how severe the cut on his right hand might have been :

Avery returned to Manitowoc County in a friend’s car three days later, a thick bandage conspicuously wrapped around his right hand.

Another blurb about the discovery of the key : -- so does this mean the key might have been inside a book ? or between books ?

The detectives worked methodically, wearing latex gloves and snapping photos of evidence. An hour into the search, one of the detectives began shuffling through a stack of paperback books on a nightstand when something dropped to the floor.

If so, it's at least plausible as to why it wasn't found in previous searches out in the open. Still not sure I believe it, but just hadn't heard it described this way before.

In a jailhouse interview with Milwaukee Magazine, Avery skillfully explained away each piece of incriminating evidence. The blood in his bathroom came from a work accident, he claimed, when he loaded a flatbed truck with tin roofing and cut his finger. “Then every time I broke it open, it bled like a stuffed pig.”

This article doesn't seem to jive with the evidence as it doesn't note them putting the body in the rav4, which had to have happened since there was blood found there. Of course all this is based on a mish-mash of dassey's many versions of what happened.

Earl claims his brother, Steven, manipulated him as well. Years ago, when -Steven was first sent to prison and Earl was 14 or 15, Steven would call him from his cell block and order Earl to have sex with -Steven’s then-wife, Lori.

If true, that is pretty twisted.

More shocking revelations spilled out. Days later, in a move to increase Avery’s bail, Kratz claimed Avery had plotted such acts for years. According to Kratz, Avery told prison inmates he planned to build a torture chamber when he was released and use it to rape, torture and kill women.

Knowing if there is any truth to this would be something damning, if the statement was BEFORE the murder. But if after the arrest, that's just an inmate looking for attention ?

 

[nathansmart]

For me, this all comes down to the corrupt police department and prosecutor. We can't ever really know what is evidence and what is just coincidental, but used to bolster false testimony from Brendan. All of the stuff in the confession from him is relayed to him first by those horrible interrogators. So, how can we know that the restraints found weren't just used to create this fake murder scenario that was then fed to Brendan? I don't trust any of the evidence and even if there is 90% not shown in the documentary, I wouldn't trust that evidence either.

I hate that we have to get upset about all this injustice when we're talking about someone's life being taken. In an ideal world, we would all be discussing our rage about Steven Avery getting off because of the absolutely blatant corruption by everyone. Instead, we're all arguing about bleach stains...

In the end, I don't care if Avery is innocent or guilty - he should not be in jail right now and, at the least, he should be getting a new trial. I left this documentary feeling like it's all hopeless and nothing in this country will ever be fair for anyone - except maybe the rich and famous. I just hope I never get accused of doing a crime I didn't do. I don't have the resources to properly defend myself and I will be carefully considering every interaction I have with the police from now on. Not because I feel a need to respect law enforcement - I just don't want to do anything to piss any of them off!

 

[Brightbird]

Dassey's confession tapes are on YouTube too. Hours and hours of them, from February to May I think. This is part 1 of the tape in March - the one where he asks if he can get to 6th period after confessing to murder (which I think is in part 2 or 3).

[video=youtu;7t_1rOjtxpA]http://youtu.be/7t_1rOjtxpA[/video]

 

[ladygator]

I just can't believe that anyone would kill someone who could be linked back to them so easily plus leave the evidence out there for anyone to find. I mean, his family knew he was meeting Theresa that day. Her job knew she was going over to the garage. But he's going to kill her and then, leave her car out with a few sticks to cover it. Really? He could have easily crushed that car down before anyone noticed Theresa was missing. I'm not one on conspiracy theories but this case doesn't make any sense! A lot of the evidence seems too convenient. It's as if it was planted.

 

[Marah]

Is it true that her camera and phone were at the bottom of the burn barrel? How about the shackles and hand cuffs? they were also in the burn barrel? And the bleached pants? Were those all pieces of evidence in the trial?

 

[Itsmevkb]

I found this in the transcript from Brendan's trial regarding Avery calling and specifically asking that Teresa being sent out and then using his sister's name. Both sides stipulated to the testimony so these people weren't actually called as witnesses.

THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentelemen I reminded yo

u before that trial stipulations were evidence and should be treated as such. This trial stipulation reads as follows:
Number one. On October 31, 2005, AngelaSchuster was the manager for AutoTrader Magazine
with headquarters in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.On the same date, Dawn Pliszka performed duties as receptionist for AutoTrader.
Number two. That if called to testify,Angela Schuster would testify that Teresa Halbach was hired as a photographer for AutoTrader inOctober, 2004, and continued in that employment through October 31, 2005.Schuster would further state that TeresaHalbach had performed photo shoots at the Avery
salvage business on five occasions prior to October 31 in 2005, including June 20,October 22, October or, excuse me. Let me start again. June 20, August 22, August 29,September 19 and October 10.
Number three. That if called to testify, Dawn Pliszka would testify that on October 31, 2005 she received a phone call from Steven Avery at approximately 8:12 a.m., at which time Avery requested that, quote, the same girl that had been out here before, end quote, come to his property to take photos of a van he had for sale..Pliszka would further state that Avery made the appointment under the name, quote, B.Janda, end quote, and that Pliszka left a voicemail for Teresa Halbach at 9:46 a.m. asking
if she could make the appointment.
Number four. That if called to testify,Dawn Pliszka would further testify that at2:27 p.m. she did speak with Teresa Halbach onTeresa's cell phone at which time Ms. Halbach indicated that she was, quote, on her way, end quote, to the Avery property from her previous appointment.

 

[Itsmevkb]

I just can't believe that anyone would kill someone who could be linked back to them so easily plus leave the evidence out there for anyone to find. I mean, his family knew he was meeting Theresa that day. Her job knew she was going over to the garage. But he's going to kill her and then, leave her car out with a few sticks to cover it. Really? He could have easily crushed that car down before anyone noticed Theresa was missing. I'm not one on conspiracy theories but this case doesn't make any sense! A lot of the evidence seems too convenient. It's as if it was planted.

I don't know, I think that if criminals were smart enough to not leave evidence behind our prisons would be empty. Let's face it, the vast majority of criminals aren't all that bright as evidenced by the fact that they get caught.

I really think that Steven dealt with the big stuff like cleaning up blood and disposing of her body and some of her belongings and then figured he'd get to the rest later and then never got the opportunity. I also believe that either consciously or subconsciously, he believed he had the perfect thing to say if suspicion fell on him - he could say he was being set up.

 

[chaleigh26]

It's was Barb Janda's van that was being sold. That's why that name was given over the phone when the appointment was made.

 

[Fred J Walsh]

This info, not included the Making a Murderer, may prove somewhat key.

Managed to acquire court transcript of Brendan Dassey's trial, Day 1 (shared in another group). Reading Kratz's opening remarks to the jury.

Kratz states Steve Avery DNA evidence found on the hood latch of the RAV4 was a swab for sweat/skin cells (i.e., it wasn't blood evidence, like the interior RAV4 samples). And just as interestingly, the sample wasn't recovered back in November 2005, but rather in April 2006, from a swabbing that was allegedly prompted by investigators' conversation with Brendan, in which he supposedly stated that Steve Avery had opened up the RAV 4 hood.

Kratz: "Was Teresa's car hood opened up by Uncle Steve as Brendan says? Well, on Aprll 3, again, as a result of Brendan's statements, law enforcement swabs -- they take a Q-tip and -- and they swab the hood latch, reaching up underneath the hood, just to see if we can get a a DNA profile. Sherry Culhane does. She gets a full profile that's Steven Avery's sweat. Steven Avery's sweat is found on the hood latch, just like should happen if Brendan is to believed that Uncle Steve went under the hood."

Putting aside for a moment the possibility that Brendan may not have volunteered the hood detail in conversation, but that it was fed to him by investigators (I'd have to do further research before confirming who brought it up)...

If what Kratz is relating will indeed be successfully shown in trial, then the "cops framed Avery" argument possibly takes a bit of hit, no? For, it would now seem to require either cops to have had the foresight to put some Avery sweat on the hood latch, or else to do it around or after the Brendan interview, to match their discussion -- or else Sherry Culhane (the same person who yielded the exonerating results for Avery's 1985 case) to have faked results, or else contaminated them in the lab. I don't know. But it seems to me the "framed" angle may have narrowed a bit...? What do you think?