New Docs Part 2

[LaLaw2000]

KC's allegations in these latest set of doc's that she was abused either by her father/brother/mother to me is another lie to add to the pile. She wouldn't know how to tell the truth, first time, anytime. The two times she was urged to tell the truth, her attorney talked her out of it. Her legal representation is seriously incompetent and should be called on it. He doesn't even know the general rules of the court system. An embarassment in the legal system that should be seriously questionned by the bar for the shabby job he's doing in this case. Ted B. did a better job representing himself. By coaching KC to keep her mouth shut, he's leading her by the hand straight to death row. She could help herself by telling the truth at this point and he encourages her to remain quiet. Go figure. The writing is on the wall and the family is totally destroyed because of her lies. I do not believe a word about the incest or the abuse. KC was no victim. She is a spoiled wrotten brat that got away with anything and everything. She's a thief, a liar, a manipulative user and a murderer. This is what all that spoiling cultivated and the family is paying the price. She sits in that jail and pretends that she is in good hands by believing JB is going to take care of her best interests. Nothing could be further from the truth. He could literally be the death of her. If the A's want to do what they can to keep her from facing the ultimate sentence, they need to....first face the truth themselves and stop with the charade that Caylee is alive. They need to visit their daughter/sister to encourage her to tell the truth. It's her only salvation and January is coming up fast. I've never become so involved in a case like this and I've asked myself why that has happened. My answer is only that I am one of many that is "fed up" with these crimes happening to innocent babies like Caylee. Thank the Lord there are many many others that are feeling the same way in that regard. Caylee has started something in all of us so we can unite and find a voice to speak for Caylee and others like her.

With all that being said, I know her grandmother is cooking a turkey today trying to be as "normal" as possible with two empty places at the table. I will think of them today as I sit with my family but MY focus is still on Caylee and where she might be put to rest. I pray that the A's will listen to their hearts and do the right thing. Go to KC and ask her for the truth to end it all.

wishing all a Blessed Thanksgiving Day.

What a great and eloquent post, Baznme! Very well stated.

Wishing you and your family a very Blessed Thanksgiving as well, and to everyone here!

 

[natsound]

ok, here's what I don't get. If KC really was uncomfortable around LA because of what she alleges - why doesn't she act that way? She and LA are very close, she admits it and so does CA. I don't get it.

Yep. The jail conversations, the high five, holding his hand... this doesn't scream sexual abuse to me. KC is too much of a liar. This story of Lee wanting to have sex with her reminds me of her story about GA having a stroke, or her story about Zani getting in an accident... etc.

 

[fay]

A victim? NO WAY. I do not believe a word out of that girl's mouth. I'm sure she was garnering sympathy from her intended victims. Sociopaths are very manipulative, I read a psychologists view on her and one of the things she said chilled me to the bone. "Casey has the ability to quickly read people and find their vulnerabilities" not an exact quote. She preys on people, gets what she wants and goes on to the next. She did that with men and women.
I will only believe this when proof positive from law enforcement.

 

[Blackwatch]

Casey does not strike me as someone that does something she doesn't want to. I think her behavior shows that she does exactly what she wants to do.
I mention that because I think Casey chose to have Caylee of her own free will. She could have easily aborted the baby and told Cindy she fell down a flight of stairs. She made up fake accidents, strokes,jobs so she is fully capable. I don't think Cindy could have forced Casy into carrying a baby. it just doesn't fit.

I understand what you are saying and I think in certain circumstances KC could be considered a victim of sorts if some of the abuse or other issues are ever confirmed to be true. However, we are all blessed with free will and the ability to change our destiny and she made her choices as to what she wanted to become.

Bolded by me.

I don't believe there is free will when one cannot get out from under, when one does not know any other way. Casey was young when she got pregnant, 17/18, and a girl that young doesn't always know the options. We don't have any PROOF that CA didn't know she was pregnant, only some silly words like we've been hearing all along. Untruths, perhaps? I never said Casey had the baby because she wanted to, but I am saying she may very well have been forced to keep it. I was that age once and I wouldn't have had the baiis to go against my family.

A study of family dynamics has shown that certain individuals in families often play certain roles, whether by choice or because they're forced into it. At that point I believe free choice becomes a moot point - there isn't any.

I believe we've all seen CA in action and some have stated she's the same as Casey. Maybe we need to ask ourselves how she got that way?

My opinion only

Now, I have to leave for Thanksgiving dinner. I have the appetizers and they will be PO'd if I don't get there before dinner is served.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[NJ Lawyer]

Starting on page 3037 to about 3044 there are several suspicious incident reports describing a TES search that found what appeared to be a shallow grave off Suburban Drive. Cannot find more information. I find it interesting that this particular incident is included in the document dump.

Interesting that statements from the guys all say they found a stick with a rope tied to it and it sounds like the other end of the rope was buried deep under the ground. The statements all say they returned the next day with shovels to dig until they reached the end of the rope underground. Questions:

1. The statements don't say what was on the end of the rope. They just stop and are signed. They don't even say "after a while we just stopped digging". So they probably reached the end of the rope and for some reason are not including what they found at the end of the rope. Would there be separate statements perhaps indicating what they found that are kept out of the doc dump? It seems like everything should be in one spot.

2. Any guess as to why someone would bury a rope with the end of it sticking out of the ground? The only thing I can think of is: if Caylee's body was buried there, then maybe the rope was down there to make it easier to find the body if necessary at a later time. With the rope going down into the ground it would be easier to find b/c after burying a body, the person burying it would not know EXACTLY where the small body is once dirt is filled in. A general marker (like a stone or stick) wouldn't show exactly where the body is, but certainly a rope leading directly down to the body would show it's location 100%.

I don't see that these statements came from TES searchers. Any ideas? How does the date of the statements (9/12) match up with Tim Miller's announcements calling off the search?

 

[LaLaw2000]

GB you, EtherealGirl!

I hope you have a Blessed and wonderful day today!

 

[yolorado]

That was a real question. What has she contributed? She never helped her family, it was all about her. She never had consistent employment. She never provided for her daughter. She used people, stole from them, lied to them, family included. When they caught on, she found new victims to prey on. She doesn't sound like much of a victim to me. He!!, she's doing the same thing to her attorney!

Haven't read the entire thread-don't know if it's been talked about, but it wouldn't suprize me at all if KC didn't give the same abuse stories to Baez that she apparently told to Jesse and perhaps TonE as well. He probably believed her, or wanted to and is structuring his defense around it somehow. KC's MO seems to attract guys in abundance. They don't necessarily stay attracted but she's got a knack for getting them on the hook. Baez seems overly connected and wouldn't have a big incest story been a pretty good glue to get that started.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

ok, here's what I don't get. If KC really was uncomfortable around LA because of what she alleges - why doesn't she act that way? She and LA are very close, she admits it and so does CA. I don't get it.

A lot of people act like they are close to their abusers.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Hmmm... Did I miss it or was Annie D either not interviewed or they are withholding her interview from the docs?

 

[TripleA]

Casey was NOT a child when she had Caylee, she was an adult! She had every right to choose whether she wanted to keep her baby, abort her baby or put her baby up for adoption. Thousands of girls, many much younger than Casey, become moms everyday. Many become very good moms! Casey was young, but she was not a child.

 

[madeleine]

Casey was NOT a child when she had Caylee, she was an adult! She had every right to choose whether she wanted to keep her baby, abort her baby or put her baby up for adoption. Thousands of girls, many much younger than Casey, become moms everyday. Many become very good moms! Casey was young, but she was not a child.

It depends(not talking about Casey now),I know 30years old women who unfortunately are still controlled and manipulated by their parents.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Hmmm... Did I miss it or was Annie D either not interviewed or they are withholding her interview from the docs?

They are withholding her interviews. :waitasec: On the State's witness list, there are 3 with no address information like the others. Annie, Dante, and I can't remember the other one off hand. I thought it was telling, but maybe not.

I do think Annie knows A LOT.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

Hmmm... Did I miss it or was Annie D either not interviewed or they are withholding her interview from the docs?

I am pretty sure her interview is still being withheld. She know something damaging imo. I really want to read it.

 

[bessie]

I have a quick point to make about Casey's accusations against her brother and father as well as the motive behind it. It would appear that Casey was always trying to align herself with a man that she believed would "take care" of her.

Now I ask what kind of "mother" would allow her small child with her abusive father and sexually deviant brother? NO, NO, NO!!!

These guys must have wondered about that. For instance when she told that story to TL was it just an excuse for why she couldn't stay with Lee if she couldn't stay with Cindy and George. He wouldn't want Casey and Caylee with him.

Yep! Cinderella Complex. She has low self-esteem, due in large part to being raised by an overbearing mother. By enabling KC all those years, she tightened the apron strings instead of loosening them as parents should to allow children to grow into independent adults. CA wants her children -- and GA, too, for that matter -- to depend on her because she has control issues and a strong need to be needed. As a result, she raised a needy child. She wrecked KC's self-esteem to the point that KC lacked the confidence to achieve anything on her own, and believed that she needed a Prince Charming to rescue her.

Women like this often do make up stories of abuse to invoke sympathy in men they're pursuing. It's interesting to note that no mention was made of the alleged abuse in the interviews with female friends. We only here of it from bf's.

 

[MarleneM]

Bolded by me.

I don't believe there is free will when one cannot get out from under, when one does not know any other way. Casey was young when she got pregnant, 17/18, and a girl that young doesn't always know the options.

We don't have any PROOF that CA didn't know she was pregnant, only some silly words like we've been hearing all along.

Untruths, perhaps? I never said Casey had the baby because she wanted to, but I am saying she may very well have been forced to keep it. I was that age once and I wouldn't have had the baiis to go against my family.

A study of family dynamics has shown that certain individuals in families often play certain roles, whether by choice or because they're forced into it. At that point I believe free choice becomes a moot point - there isn't any.

I believe we've all seen CA in action and some have stated she's the same as Casey. Maybe we need to ask ourselves how she got that way?

My opinion only

Now, I have to leave for Thanksgiving dinner. I have the appetizers and they will be PO'd if I don't get there before dinner is served.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

<bolded by me>

Yet you base your entire argument that KC is as big a victim as dead baby Caylee on the words of a PROVEN liar?

Only KC says LA tried to have sex with her, and she said it to a guy she was sleeping with (JG, at least). She probably said it to garner sympathy from JG at some point, perhaps when he challenged her behavior on something. Girls who lie about SA do it for attention or as a deflection of blame for their behavior. KC is a proven habitual liar. It's not hard to conceive KC lying about her own brother based on everything else we know to be true about her.

Listen to KC's first phone call home from jail. Listen to the way she talks to both LA and CA. KC is not a wallflower nor a doormat. She knows exactly how to stand up for herself...even when she's not entitled to put her interests first.

 

[ks1]

On a check to CA from LA, think document dump 4 or 5 document 42 it shows another person named on his account. This was a check to CA for a$25 Christmas gift. Does anyone know who this other person is? Just curious as it is not anyone I have heard mentioned before.

 

[Janis396]

On a check to CA from LA, think document dump 4 or 5 document 42 it shows another person named on his account. This was a check to CA for a$25 Christmas gift. Does anyone know who this other person is? Just curious as it is not anyone I have heard mentioned before.

I believe that check was from George's parents.

 

[MarleneM]

Yep! Cinderella Complex. She has low self-esteem, due in large part to being raised by an overbearing mother. By enabling KC all those years, she tightened the apron strings instead of loosening them as parents should to allow children to grow into independent adults. CA wants her children -- and GA, too, for that matter -- to depend on her because she has control issues and a strong need to be needed. As a result, she raised a needy child. She wrecked KC's self-esteem to the point that KC lacked the confidence to achieve anything on her own, and believed that she needed a Prince Charming to rescue her.

Women like this often do make up stories of abuse to invoke sympathy in men they're pursuing.

It's interesting to note that no mention was made of the alleged abuse in the interviews with female friends. We only here of it from bf's.

Exactly! And that should be pointed out in trial.

*Who* a person confides SA to is the most telling indicator as to the incentive for admission.

 

[jennyb]

All this abuse stuff (whether it's true or not) coupled with KC's behavior that points to having experienced abuse - should be miracles to the defense; finally something, anything with teeth in it. And yet JB only has 3 forensic witnesses on his list for trial. I'm wondering if he is not compelled to give his complete list at this time and maybe he'll have all kinds of shrinks and behaviorists when the time comes? It seems like his only hope.

 

[beckaroozie]

Oh yeah. I can't wait. Casey or Lee???

If the allegations of sexual abuse by Lee are untrue....maybe he won't be so fast and determined to defend her and we'll get some interesting news soon?