Casey couldn't spend nights with anybody without making prior arrangements with Cindy. Cindy left for work by 7 a.m. so Casey had to come home at least by then. Anywhere Casey spent overnight had to welcome Caylee too. (Unless Cindy was free the next morning.)
Cindy believed Casey and Caylee were home and in bed before Cindy left for work on June 16.
IF Casey had stomped off with Caylee the night of June 15, Casey's phone log would show calls and messages from Cindy that night and the next morning. It doesn't. Cindy for sure would have answered the phone immediately the next day to make sure Caylee was O.K. She didn't.
As I said, Tony said Casey was home June 15 into the wee hours of June 16. I am SURE Casey bitterly told him on the phone how much she HATED being in THAT house. I also think Casey was begging Tony to let her come over with Caylee. I am sure she was spewing venom about her parents trying to get Tony's sympathy so he would change his mind about Caylee staying over. It looks like she was working on it until 3 a.m. without hardly taking a breath.
I don't think Casey had all that much gas in her car to waste running her air conditioner all night sitting in her car.
JMO
I agree that we agree broadly, but not on all details.Your thinking alligns exactly with mine.
This is what I wrote back when we had a poll earlier and there has been no reason to change my thoughts on this:
Died 16th, Disposed 18/19.
I think all the calls to CA/GA at 4 pm-ish on the 16th was a desperate bid to see if grandma/pa would babysit, despite their fight on the 15th.
When she couldn't get ahold of them (or they wouldn't answer), she decided to use the chloroform (which may not have been the first time), and that night when she and Tony went to get movies Caylee was probably out cold in the trunk. Perhaps, choroform was for the quick knockout, but maybe some pills/cold meds were given to her to keep her down. It is the combination of drugs that probably killed her that evening while in the trunk.
She discovered late that night or in the early morning that she was dead and disposed of her temporarally in the A's backyard on the 17th. She went back the next day on the 18th (shovel day), and disposed of her either that day or in the early morning hours of the 19th. So decomp was at that point entered into the car at 2.5 days roughly. There is nothing to say that she couldn't have had 1/2 decomp prior to the 2.5 day mark, just that the makeup of the gases, were gases that are produced by a corpse at about 2.5 days.
After another 2 months, and several document dumps, I am sticking to my deduction that Caylee died in the trunk of KC's Pontiac (25% on this poll).
This is my conclusion based on all I have heard so far, especially the forernsic evidence report on human decomposition in the trunk.
Bringing together what other testimony and circumstantial evidence that has been released so far, I think Caylee died in the trunk "overnight", the night that KC escaped to Al's.(16th), but later so the actual date of date of death was 17th.
Disagreement is fine with me!Hercule Poirot, first let me say I love your witty posts...too many favorites to recall them all. :blowkiss: However, I disagree with this one. Where would Caylee have been during KC and Tony's trip to Blockbuster ??? Wasn't it only early evening when they went to pick up movies ??? :waitasec:
I originally voted Caylee died in the home but not so sure now.Disagreement is fine with me!
I bumped a couple of threads to try and inspire some discussion so thanks!
A complete theory is a bit long winded to repeat.
Basically I am working backwards (sorry could be CA influence) from either 20th or 19th being most likely days to dump or rebag the body. The 19th is less likely, so I favour the 20th. Three days back from then puts death on 17th, probably the morning. I think (VERY SADLY) that Caylee was in the trunk when she died. Casey did not look stressed at video shop so I am picking that Caylee was already in the trunk. Probably drugged, gagged and bound with tape. I think KC got wrapped up in her night with Tony. She may, or may not, have checked Caylee during the night, but left her there and found her dead the next day.
Disagreement is fine with me!
I bumped a couple of threads to try and inspire some discussion so thanks!
A complete theory is a bit long winded to repeat. (Readers would turn off and rush back to the Octomom thread.)
Basically I am working backwards (sorry could be CA influence) from either 20th or 19th being most likely days to dump or rebag the body. The 19th is less likely, so I favour the 20th. Three days back from then puts death on 17th, probably the morning. I think (VERY SADLY) that Caylee was in the trunk when she died. Casey did not look stressed at video shop so I am picking that Caylee was already in the trunk. Probably drugged, gagged and bound with tape. I think KC got wrapped up in her night with Tony. She may, or may not, have checked Caylee during the night, but left her there and found her dead the next day.
I am assuming that on the afternoon of 16th, the burst of phone calls was to try and jack-up a babysitter, but all failed so an angry KC taped, and possibly drugged, Caylee and put her in the trunk before heading to Tony's. She forgot/did not care/was a bit doped up herself, and just left Caylee there until she died of dehydration and/or asphyxiation. Tony never knew she was there. KC found dead Caylee and made first trip back to Anthony's and backed in to garage to mess with/bag, the body.I originally voted Caylee died in the home but not so sure now.
If Caylee was in the car trunk all night wouldn't AL have asked about her the next morning? Surely he had to know Caylee was with KC? If he didn't know, wouldn't that mean that Caylee had to be drugged (or whatever) before the vid store, abt 8-9pm on the 16th?
This helped me:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?month=6&year=2008&c=4&do=displaymonth
P.S. had enough of the Octumom!
As hard as it is to think about HP, your timeline makes the most sense to me.I am assuming that on the afternoon of 16th, the burst of phone calls was to try and jack-up a babysitter, but all failed so an angry KC taped, and possibly drugged, Caylee and put her in the trunk before heading to Tony's. She forgot/did not care/was a bit doped up herself, and just left Caylee there until she died of dehydration and/or asphyxiation. Tony never knew she was there. KC found dead Caylee and made first trip back to Anthony's and backed in to garage to mess with/bag, the body.
One of the most telling statements of all was her comment to GA that she and Caylee would NOT be back that night. (and we all know Caylee wasn't welcome at TonE's!)
I am not ruling out use of drugs, as in cold meds etc. Possibly KC had used them on Caylee before, but I am ruling out that dratted C-l-o-r-o-f-o-r-m. I do not think we have any evidence it was involved.As hard as it is to think about HP, your timeline makes the most sense to me.
But!...
I just can't wrap my brain around the tape being put across her face with the child conscious and awake and breathing. IF Caylee were drugged or unconscious, maybe.
You ask "wasn't the odour of chloroform in the car?"I thought that LE found evidence that chloroform was used on Caylee, wasn't the odor in the car? I guess the has been speculation that it was used to cover the oder, but how would she have thought to do that. Is that something that chloroform is even used for?
Anyway, I think that it was done in the home. Maybe because its where she felt the most comfortable and/or to spite Cindy. I don't understand why she kept Caylee after she had died though.
You ask "wasn't the odour of chloroform in the car?"
NO it wasn't!
Where did that come from?
No real person anywhere in this case has made any comment about the odour of chloroform.
I doubt if very many, even amongst WS'ers have ever smelled chloroform in their lives.
NG has spoken of the car "Saturated" But she is just silly and purely for entertainment.
Unfortunately the KC "searches" for chloroform brought the word to the fore.Hi HP - early on I thought I read that test results showed very high levels of chloroform in the air of the trunk... and then a doctor (Kobilinsky?) said the decomp odor would over-power everything else, so no one would have been able to smell the chloroform with the decomp present. I'm not sure if I am remembering this correctly, but isn’t this what made the connection between Casey's internet chloroform searches & her trunk thus the supposition that Caylee was chloroformed? I wish they’d hurry up and start the trial so we could find all this out, lol.
i was thinking about that the other day... that i'd read/heard somewhere that george said the last time he saw caylee, kc was carrying her out of the house. it just hit me that she might have been dead instead of asleep... so very sad : (
and i voted for car trunk, but might not be right now that i think about it lol
Please site the reference to where you read this description.i was thinking about that the other day... that i'd read/heard somewhere that george said the last time he saw caylee, kc was carrying her out of the house. it just hit me that she might have been dead instead of asleep... so very sad : (
and i voted for car trunk, but might not be right now that i think about it lol
Unfortunately the KC "searches" for chloroform brought the word to the fore.
"Raised levels" (parts per million) were found in analysis, but that is not the same as anybody detecting "an odour" .
There is absolutely no evidence that KC ever bought, made, stole, or even ever saw chloroform at a distance. Nobody in the case anywhere has reported ever seeing chloroform anywhere. It just is not part of the case at all at this time. If some evidence is found with the remains, then we can consider it important. But equally so, if we find there was a piece of Martian toenail with the remains, we will go back and reconsider my earlier "Alien Abduction" theory.
I see a wealth of evidence proving at least a dead Caylee was in the trunk. Stain, smell testimony from scores of people, hairs.It is not any more unlikely chloroform is part of the case than Caylee died in the trunk. No one has ever seen Caylee in the trunk, being put in the trunk, or taken out of the trunk. No one has come forward with info they heard any strange noises from the trunk. I haven't stumbled upon any times Caylee is unaccounted for previous to June 16th where she could have been stashed in the trunk.
Just because chloroform was found in the trunk of the car does not mean Caylee was killed with it.
Just because decomp was found in the trunk of the car does not mean Caylee died in there.
Lanie