NEW Poll on Where Caylee Died.

[Rumpole]

No one. Not really. We do care about the murder of an innocent child.

Aw, c'mon, HP. Don't carp out on us now. :blowkiss:

Nah!
Not crapping out, (or carping out either), but really, one stupid twit and all this international effort against her?

 

[txsvicki]

I'm still going with the evidence and sticking with premeditated drugging into unconsciousness first in the home due to the blanket and laundry bag, then final death in the trunk of the pontiac. Chloroform because it was detected and was looked up on the computer along with inhalants and other violent type searches. Chloroform, trunks, and duct tape also fits with a kidnapping scenario which Casey claims. The trunk would also be hidden in the garage, be sealed off with little air to be displaced with an inhalant, and Casey wouldn't have to look at her victim.

 

[Rumpole]

OK Poirot, after I posted, I checked out some other threads and saw your timeline in the Theories thread. But I still have to wonder how quickly she accomplished all of her actions to subdue Caylee, and then where did she place the car to accomplish this?

Monsieur Poirot, s'il vous plait.

I don't see your problem. A less than three year old is not going to put up much resistance to an enraged KC? Just look at the images of her in the recent jail visit. I don't want to be too graphic. Visualise it yourself not hard for as grown woman to gag and bind a small child and throw her in the trunk. Then just do nothing but party for afew hours. KC could manage that?

 

[DotsEyes]

Slightly off topic, but there is a photo of a bit of the Pooh blanket. It was captured in a pic of KC and Caylee. It is on a sticky, under "Images Only", post #4, 3rd photo down, blankie on left.

A well-washed Pooh blankie, with fuzz balls from use and laundering. Could have been a favorite blankie?

 

[bessie]

Slightly off topic, but there is a photo of a bit of the Pooh blanket. It was captured in a pic of KC and Caylee. It is on a sticky, under "Images Only", post #4, 3rd photo down, blankie on left.

A well-washed Pooh blankie, with fuzz balls from use and laundering. Could have been a favorite blankie?

I checked it out last night after you posted about it. Reminded me of my son's WTP blanket, well-worn, well-loved.

 

[TakeNote]

I still believe KC left the house on the night of the 15th/ early morning 16th after the Big fight with CA......

KC grabed the back pack CA had for Caylee when they went to see papa.....
KC grabed Caylee with her blanket that she sleeps with......

sticker-from sticker book/coloring book or even had been given to from papa's place..... she had already in the back pack from papa's, laundry bag from being gone all week....duct tape from a party she had gone to

all these things already in the car..........

I believe KC had been looking into/planing to kill Caylee and the fight with CA was what put her over the edge to finally do it........

I do not believe she had her plan all the way planed out yet, but because of the rage she had towards her mother, KC took it out on Caylee that night, but then was stuck with what to do next.......

I believe in a rage, and Caylee was crying, KC wraped the duct tape around her head to shut her up, then druged her? smothered her with the duct tape? or something else? KC could have even beat her to death..... how ever it happend I believe that is when she died.

I believe after Caylee took her last breath, KC found a heart shaped sticker from Caylee's book/back pack and placed it on the mouth area as a symbol of having the last word with CA

I believe KC went to the trunk of the car and dumped out her clothes from the laundry bag she had already in the car, ( I remember GA saying something about KC's clothes being all over in the trunk of the car)-but I dont have a link for that info as of now)....she then put Caylee in there......and then more events after that

 

[Marina2]

Do you know where you saw the description about carrying Caylee out?

The report I go by is the interview between G & C and Greta. GA clearly states Caylee was alert and saying goodbye with "Hugs and kisses"

this is a forum myth hercule. it started circulating when i was still lurking and was busted when someone brought up the subject of lividity. it still appears here and there though so i don't blame anyone for believing and repeating it.

I've never heard "GA described KC carrying Caylee out" on this forum. At least not to the point of it being a myth. I have heard many forum members state that it is their belief that KC carried Caylee out that morning. Lividity wouldn't prevent KC from walking out the door with Caylee, wrapped in her blanket, and placing her in the trunk. Nor would rigor mortis.

Some, myself included, don't believe GA's account of their leaving that day. First, it's hard for me to believe that he wouldn't see Caylee earlier than almost 1 o'clock. Second, it's logical for me to believe KC would leave that house without saying a word to GA. They weren't on the best of terms, possibly not even speaking to one another. It's hard for me to envision a smiling KC and GA, hugs and kisses as she left for work like a normal day. Not after that fight the night before. I can picture her walking right past him and slamming the door in his face a lot easier. When KC gave her statement to LE she didn't know what GA would say about that morning. Thats why she said she dropped Caylee off "between 9 and 1". Very vague in order to match with what he said.

CA account is no more believable than GA's to me. First she states that she knew where "at least one of them were because I tucked her in". Then it's "I tucked them both in the night before" Then the way she describes hearing them "breathing through the door that morning". Breathing? Who says that? Someone that wants to assert that they were both alive that morning is who. Otherwise, "I heard them awake in their room" Or "I heard them getting up", or Caylee playing etc. is what I would expect to hear if all were normal. Nothing about that night or morning was normal, imo.

The theory that Caylee was killed the night before or early morning in that house is just as logical as any of the others. If it happened that way she would have to carry Caylee out. She could have done it while GA and CA slept or she could have done it after CA left and while GA was in the bathroom. There are any number of ways KC could have left with a dead Caylee if she did kill her earlier the night before.

I think she struck at Caylee in a rage and injured her more than she expected too. Caylee couldn't quit crying because of the pain of the injury she sustained. Fearing CA and GA would wake to her cries and discover the injury she inflicted on Caylee, she grabs some duct tape and silences her. Later, KC finally retires from her computer and phone activities, climbs into bed and discovers Caylee has died, either from the injury or the duct tape. She frantically wraps her in her blanket and stuffs her in a laundry bag. The heart shaped sticker is placed on her lips and she's taken to the trunk.

Of course, if you choose to believe GA's statement this theory doesn't work. Personally, I don't think the dynamics of that household on that morning support a "normal day, hugs and kisses" scenario.

Sorry for the length! In short, I think Caylee was killed in Casey's room.:crazy:

 

[Ripley007]

I've never heard "GA described KC carrying Caylee out" on this forum. At least not to the point of it being a myth. I have heard many forum members state that it is their belief that KC carried Caylee out that morning. Lividity wouldn't prevent KC from walking out the door with Caylee, wrapped in her blanket, and placing her in the trunk. Nor would rigor mortis.

Some, myself included, don't believe GA's account of their leaving that day. First, it's hard for me to believe that he wouldn't see Caylee earlier than almost 1 o'clock. Second, it's logical for me to believe KC would leave that house without saying a word to GA. They weren't on the best of terms, possibly not even speaking to one another. It's hard for me to envision a smiling KC and GA, hugs and kisses as she left for work like a normal day. Not after that fight the night before. I can picture her walking right past him and slamming the door in his face a lot easier. When KC gave her statement to LE she didn't know what GA would say about that morning. Thats why she said she dropped Caylee off "between 9 and 1". Very vague in order to match with what he said.

CA account is no more believable than GA's to me. First she states that she knew where "at least one of them were because I tucked her in". Then it's "I tucked them both in the night before" Then the way she describes hearing them "breathing through the door that morning". Breathing? Who says that? Someone that wants to assert that they were both alive that morning is who. Otherwise, "I heard them awake in their room" Or "I heard them getting up", or Caylee playing etc. is what I would expect to hear if all were normal. Nothing about that night or morning was normal, imo.

The theory that Caylee was killed the night before or early morning in that house is just as logical as any of the others. If it happened that way she would have to carry Caylee out. She could have done it while GA and CA slept or she could have done it after CA left and while GA was in the bathroom. There are any number of ways KC could have left with a dead Caylee if she did kill her earlier the night before.

I think she struck at Caylee in a rage and injured her more than she expected too. Caylee couldn't quit crying because of the pain of the injury she sustained. Fearing CA and GA would wake to her cries and discover the injury she inflicted on Caylee, she grabs some duct tape and silences her. Later, KC finally retires from her computer and phone activities, climbs into bed and discovers Caylee has died, either from the injury or the duct tape. She frantically wraps her in her blanket and stuffs her in a laundry bag. The heart shaped sticker is placed on her lips and she's taken to the trunk.

Of course, if you choose to believe GA's statement this theory doesn't work. Personally, I don't think the dynamics of that household on that morning support a "normal day, hugs and kisses" scenario.

Sorry for the length! In short, I think Caylee was killed in Casey's room.:crazy:

ITA-Now for my rant...
I already voted in this poll. No wait, this is a NEW poll...In the original, I voted "Killed in KC's bedroom". I have made many a post on many a thread regarding the LACK of a statement by GA about "hugs and kisses" goodbye". Too hear speak of it happening, and it being discussed on Greata, makes me scratch my head. Nobody ever "corrected" me before. Don't believe it. Again, sticking with my original belief, GA couldn't POSSIBLY remember ANY circumstance of a rotuine nature from a month earlier. I'm a WOMAN which by gender alone, means I have a better memory than any man, yet I can't tell you what my daughter wore yesterday!

 

[TSPnc]

Has anyone located Caylee's shoes???I know that they were not in the bag...Were they in the car??I find it interesting that her shoes were not with her in the bag...It makes me wonder IF her shoes weren't on or better yet WHY she didn't have them on? Were they located in the car? Just food for thought....If she had left in the morning as GA had said she would have had them on....

 

[DebC]

I see we have a vote for "Somewhere Else"
It would be very interesting to hear any new theories.

Well, she could have been killed where they found her. I didn't vote for that, but it's a thought

 

[pregodego2]

I've thought the trunk all along and still do. The duct tape just made that seem the most likely. I don't think she "actively" killed her, I think she "passively" killed her by duct taping her mouth so she couldn't cry out, and possibly her limbs so she couldn't pull it off or kick and make noise. The duct tape on the mouth doesn't make sense to me except on a still alive Caylee to keep her quiet. I just think she put her in the trunk "out of her hair", so to speak, and she died. And KC more than likely knew that she would die.

yup. i don't think it was done aggressively, more passively. it's how all thingsin casey's life were done - half heartedly and without feeling. like "oh whatever, deal with it later, just move over"

 

[tiredofthis]

I just cannot imagine a child of that age being "quiet" in a room for that long. I truly believe that she was either dead before Casey took her out of the house, or very close to death en route to KC's car, the last time George "saw" them.

I voted in the trunk of the car, but you might be right. Maybe that is why GA wanted to take his life. Maybe he saw Caylee wrapped in the blanket and being carried to the car.

 

[Jay D]

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I will submit it for consideration. IF(and that is a big IF) there was a fight, it is reasonable to assume that KC left with Caylee. But where would she go. I suspect the elementary school parking lot. It is on a dead end street, very secluded and quiet. A Neutral Place.
I can easily visualize that all KC wanted to do at that point was talk to Tony L. (Remember after she was arrested the first thing she wnted was to talk to TL. In her time of stress, TL was her current outlet). Now I picture Caylee beginning to cry in her carseat, interrupting KC's conversation. The last thing KC wanted at that time was for TL to hear Caylee. He was already hesitant to accept Caylee without reservation, and KC didn't dare give TL another reason to resent the "little snothead" by having to put up with her temper tantrums. KC would have had to walk away from the car to continue her convo. She might have exited the car, then remembered the duct tape stored in the trunk. She could have told TL she would call back in a few minutes, then duct taped Caylee to silence her. She might have been so angry at that point, that she didn't even care if she killed her.
A bit later, she may have discovered that Caylee had suffocated, so she put her in the trunk and then drove home. Deal with things later, KC's MO.
George Lied, Cindy lied, but why? By July 20 they suspected.

 

[DebC]

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I will submit it for consideration. IF(and that is a big IF) there was a fight, it is reasonable to assume that KC left with Caylee. But where would she go. I suspect the elementary school parking lot. It is on a dead end street, very secluded and quiet. A Neutral Place.

It is possible Jay. Her phone would ping from the same tower as if she were at home? Yes? That's why I said above, Caylee may have been killed where she was found. Casey could also have parked on the mown verge at the corner of Hopespring and Suburban. Tucked close against the fence, it's doubtful if the property owner would be able to see her.

 

[PoppyH]

Has anyone located Caylee's shoes???I know that they were not in the bag...Were they in the car??I find it interesting that her shoes were not with her in the bag...It makes me wonder IF her shoes weren't on or better yet WHY she didn't have them on? Were they located in the car? Just food for thought....If she had left in the morning as GA had said she would have had them on....

I was thinking the same, where are Caylees shoes?? And the sunglasses she supposedly had on??

 

[Theonly1]

Cross-posted as I'm not sure the best place for this post:

As I was woken from peacefully sleeping in the chair last night and told to go to bed, I then laid in bed for 2 hours, listening to Mr. Theonly1 snore, and thought about this case.

I was thinking about what GA allegedly saw Casey and Caylee wearing on June 16th (Casey in the gray pants with cream colored blouse) and Caylee in the outfit that she was NOT found with). I started wondering about the gray pants and them allegedly being found in the sunfire and washed by Cindy (thereby proving they were stinky).

Follow me on this for a minute:

1. Casey was seen on the Blockbuster video surveillance camera on June 16th NOT wearing the outfit George said he saw her in mid-afternoon.

2. Caylee was found with clothing that was NOT the clothing GA alleges she was wearing on June 16th.

So, either Casey and Caylee BOTH changed clothes or GA is mis-remembering or misstating the facts. WHY would he do this?

I can "buy" that Casey wore the nice gray dress pants to put on a front for George that she was going to "work". But the outfit she was wearing at Blockbuster was absolutely not a "work" outfit and not what George said she was wearing.

Could Casey have changed clothes for the benefit of hanging out with TonyL? Maybe. But she would have likely MILKED the "I was at work" scenario and shown up at Tony's wearing the "work" outfit and then changed into the casual clothes (thereby leaving the work outfit at his apartment with her bags and not in the backseat of the sunfire). So, WHY were the gray pants left in the sunfire? We know that the decomp would NOT have been runny and staining her clothes on June 16 if she had just killed Caylee. Further, if blood was of a concern (i.e., changed the clothes due them becoming bloody) then blood would have been found on the clothes because it is a MUCH harder substance to totally remove from miscroscopic examination.

So, I am thinking that George simply had it wrong or did not see Casey and Caylee on the 16th. Why?

I think poor Caylee was killed on the 15th and into the early wee hours of the 16th. Why? Because items of convenience from the bedrooms were found with the body (the Pooh blanket, clothes she had on from the 15th in my opinion, the hamper liner, etc., the heart sticker (doubt that was from Tony's home).

Cindy has stated on record that SHE did NOT see Caylee and Casey on June 16th but she "heard them breathing". HUH? I don't know of any house with a small toddler who would CLOSE THE DOOR to the child's bedroom (or the bedroom of the mother if toddler was sleeping with Mom). I can simply envisage Cindy A. pausing outside a locked door (speculation) and saying that she "heard them breathing". It is such a strange damn comment to me. Why pause outside a closed door? Because that door was LOCKED perhaps? Perhaps locked after a blow-up fight on June 15th that NOBODY wants to mention to LE?


I'm speculating here but I don't think George saw either of his "girls" on the 16th.

I think Casey wore the "dress" pants when she and TonyL. went to interview and look for apartments (or something). And maybe she wore them the next day she dumped Caylee and spilled some decomp on the pants or was simply grossed out by the action and put the stinky pants in the car (i.e., not at Tony's and not back in her luggage as it was TOO GROSS).

Then you ask, how would GA know about the gray pants to tell LE that was the last outfit he saw Casey wearing? Well, that was the outfit left in the car in which Cindy washed!

The devil is in the details...

 

[Mendara]

What I am unsure of is if George was indeed telling the truth. I do not believe he was. JMO

I do not believe George saw them that day - I think that story is a lie. I believe Caylee was killed at the Anthony home later that day or the night before. She was placed in Casey's trunk with the duct tape for a few days and then Casey returns to the home at one point to repack Caylee - in order to keep evidence from being traced in the house - she placed the garbage bag in the backyard and puts Caylee inside, she borrows the shovel - she takes Cayle to dump spot, tries to burry her but can't - she returns the shovel.

 

[angeleleven]

I voted for in the house, too, because of the blanket and the duct tape. I think the duct tape was used to keep her quiet, and KC wouldn't have had the duct tape in the car, I don't think.

But what is hard for me to pinpoint is WHEN she died. I find it hard to believe that KC left with Caylee, as George says, then came back after he left, and flew into a rage and killed Caylee.

I think KC killed Caylee in a rage ... that's my gut instinct, and so that likely makes the time of death the night before, after the alleged family fight. But then that throws out GA's point about seeing Caylee the next day.

Nobody has ever explained where KC was the night of the 15th that made any sense.

Nothing about this timeline makes sense. It's very difficult to figure out how poor little Caylee met her end.

She might have had the duct tape in her purse since she probably used it at the 'anything but clothes party' or it could have been in her car since it was used on the gas cans. Just maybe?

 

[TxLady2]

First of all, George never stated that he had not seen Caylee OR Casey earlier that day.... he was stating when he LAST saw Caylee. It's very possible that he gave Caylee her breakfast that morning, and I remember reading something along those lines a while back, but can't remember where or who said it.
Whether the story is true or not, however, I do NOT believe Caylee died in the house the night before. Too much chance of Cindy or George discovering it before she could take her body out of the house. Caylee probably died in the trunk of the car, because of the decomp smells, the stain, and all the other evidence from it. If she had died somewhere else, why haul the dead body around in the trunk for days? If she dies in the trunk, knowing Casey, she might have agonized for that long before deciding where she would put her body. Not to mention being afraid to handle a dead body. Makes sense to me. Anybody ever considered that someone else dumped the body there, not Casey?
I've thought of that possibility many times.

 

[Jolynna]

perhaps she staged the murder to make it appear as a sex offender got ahold of her possibly through the nanny and killed her...remember the heart drawn on the palm of Jon Benet's hand?

Her phone pings place Casey in or by the Anthony home from late afternoon June 15 until heading to Tony's June 16 at a little after 4 p.m.

If Casey wanted to make it look like a random sex offender had Caylee, she shouldn't have left Caylee's body less than a mile from where she lived.

IMO, the burial site points away from anybody but Casey. A random sex offender would bury where "he" felt safe...in HIS home territory ala Gacey and Bundy.

IMO