GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

[iamshadow21]

Just a few things from the trial:

She didn't feel instantaneous love for the girls. She tried her best to be a good mom. The girls preferred dad over mom and I think this really got her. The kids wouldn't listen to her. They would throw things at her, even a bowl of cereal with milk.

She stopped taking her meds before they moved to NZ. I don't think she saw a psychiatrist in NZ either or restarted her meds. The day before she killed the kids, immigration asked for a letter from her previous psychiatrist.

Thinking thoughts of harming the kids was a new feeling she didn't have with post partum depression. She snapped when the kids became out of control and wouldn't listen. She went to the garage and got cable ties. She then explains how she killed the girls. I don't feel comfortable putting it here.

130 000 total messages were reviewed. 1200 were relevant.

Her husband is her rock. She has spoken before that she couldn't have alone time with him as there would always be a kid there.

She thought they "made a very bad decision by moving".

In South Africa they had a large back garden with a trampoline and jungle gym and things were nice. The were in quarantine I believe before they moved when living with his mother. Also in quarantine when the arrived in NZ. House was small and they got out one hour a day. Meals were delivered to their door. In SA she became paranoid as a result of the riots and looting in her home country. I read she told the oldest they couldn't go to the toy store because of bad people.

Kids play up. They have tantrums. They yell 'I hate you' when they don't get their way. It is normal. It is a typical part of development of self and autonomy. And yes, they will go through phases of preferring one parent over the other, this is typical, especially favouring the parent who is out of the home, going to work.

Yeah, 'snapped' doesn't work when we know she's been fantasising about harming them since before she left SA.

And wow, does she have resentment about the kids 'intruding' in her relationship with her husband. Why on earth did they persist with IVF for the twins, if she was disillusioned with parenting after the first child?

She hated them, she resented them, she killed them. No psychosis here.

MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The voice of reason.

Dear @dotr thank you.

You have no idea how much that means.

We're all in this? I guess? Sadly. Just stunning kids. My tears lay with their Nanny.

My heart is shattered for the father.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

This is awful.
Dickason children were strangled with cable ties | Citypress

Oh my! Oh my! Heartbreaking!! With each child she had roughly 3-5 minutes to change her mind?? What a slow and brutal death. So sad all the way around.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

too late to edit but with strangulation the vicitims can be rendered unconscious within less than 10 seconds.

We can hope. Still, an awful way to die.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I’m trying to picture what hell it would be trapped with 3 babies and husband in a hotel room for 2 weeks.

Other families coped ok.
Did they find themselves in a house with no food, no clothing, no car and was the house furnished?

Was NZ in lockdown and they couldn’t leave the house to get essentials?

Nothing other than a severe mental health disorder can help me find a reason.

It's been reported that they could only be outdoors 1 hour per day. That's beyond strict. MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I don't see anything on there that to my knowledge stopping would cause you to become homicidal, other than:

"Major psychiatric illness and/or addiction including any psychiatric condition that has required hospitalisation and/or where significant support is required"

But if she is this ill - so unwell that they faced being rejected by immigration because of the probability she would need care and cost money - how would she be allowed to be practicing as a doctor in South Africa?

Was she going to be allowed to practice medicine in New Zealand? No one has mentioned her having employment just the husband.

DBM

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Kids play up. They have tantrums. They yell 'I hate you' when they don't get their way. It is normal. It is a typical part of development of self and autonomy. And yes, they will go through phases of preferring one parent over the other, this is typical, especially favouring the parent who is out of the home, going to work.

Yeah, 'snapped' doesn't work when we know she's been fantasising about harming them since before she left SA.

And wow, does she have resentment about the kids 'intruding' in her relationship with her husband. Why on earth did they persist with IVF for the twins, if she was disillusioned with parenting after the first child?

She hated them, she resented them, she killed them. No psychosis here.

MOO

I agree very much, and children can pick up that a parent doesn't want them around and as a consequence, may act up further. The punishment is then satisfying for the parent, who lacks self awareness and critical thinking.
I really wish the justice system would acknowledge that there are parents or a parent, who hate their child/ren. And this hate manifests in many different ways but a child, knows. jmo

A good book to read about such parents is, People of the Lie, by Dr. M. Scott Peck.

“Of the myriad lies that people often tell themselves, two of the most common, potent and destructive are “We really love our children” and “Our parents really loved us.” It may be that our parents did love us and we do love our children, but when it is not the case, people often go to extraordinary lengths to avoid the realization. Dr M Scott Peck

 

[cjm11]

Kids play up. They have tantrums. They yell 'I hate you' when they don't get their way. It is normal. It is a typical part of development of self and autonomy. And yes, they will go through phases of preferring one parent over the other, this is typical, especially favouring the parent who is out of the home, going to work.

Yeah, 'snapped' doesn't work when we know she's been fantasising about harming them since before she left SA.

And wow, does she have resentment about the kids 'intruding' in her relationship with her husband. Why on earth did they persist with IVF for the twins, if she was disillusioned with parenting after the first child?

She hated them, she resented them, she killed them. No psychosis here.

MOO

I don't think she could bond with the girls. She also couldn't get control of them. That was most likely because of the vibes she was putting out. They knew how their mom felt about them.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

But how can someone feel okay about getting mental health treatment when that person is so afraid of not being allowed to stay in country? That's like of putting the ultimate stigma on mental health. MOO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I agree it is normal for children around the world, in all cultures and times, to have tantrums. The exact words used and how it happens doesn't say anything about the parents nor the kids. Granted some children are just easier than others.

Nowadays there are many resources to help parents with parenting challenges.

Mental health challenges in a country that's requesting mental health records would be tough, though.

ETA: New Zealand is not sending out the right messages with this policy, IMO.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I agree it is normal for children around the world, in all cultures and times, to have tantrums. The exact words used and how it happens doesn't say anything about the parents nor the kids. Granted some children are just easier than others.

Nowadays there are many resources to help parents with parenting challenges.

Mental health challenges in a country that's requesting mental health records would be tough, though.

ETA: New Zealand is not sending out the right messages with this policy, IMO.

Thank you for saying very succinctly what I was trying to say regarding the wrong message.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

I agree it is normal for children around the world, in all cultures and times, to have tantrums. The exact words used and how it happens doesn't say anything about the parents nor the kids. Granted some children are just easier than others.

Nowadays there are many resources to help parents with parenting challenges.

Mental health challenges in a country that's requesting mental health records would be tough, though.

ETA: New Zealand is not sending out the right messages with this policy, IMO.

However, had they been honest about her mental health, immigration may have not happened and she would be happy, and children alive?

 

[airportwoman]

It's been reported that they could only be outdoors 1 hour per day. That's beyond strict. MOO

Does anyone know why?
I do remember that my mother went through some spells where my sibs and I weren't allowed out of the house for days on end, and we were not allowed to play with other children in the neighborhood except under very limited conditions.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Does anyone know why?
I do remember that my mother went through some spells where my sibs and I weren't allowed out of the house for days on end, and we were not allowed to play with other children in the neighborhood except under very limited conditions.

Covid lockdowns and quarantine.

 

[annpats]

It's been reported that they could only be outdoors 1 hour per day. That's beyond strict. MOO

Same here in the UK during COVID times.
I think a lot of European countries had this rule too.
One hour out of the house for fresh air and exercise per day.

 

[annpats]

However, had they been honest about her mental health, immigration may have not happened and she would be happy, and children alive?

No, because even when she was living in SA she was googling how to kill children by drugging them.
Those poor children were probably going to face the same tragic ending no matter which country they lived in.

 

[tazza]

Does anyone know why?
I do remember that my mother went through some spells where my sibs and I weren't allowed out of the house for days on end, and we were not allowed to play with other children in the neighborhood except under very limited conditions.

Same here in the UK during COVID times.
I think a lot of European countries had this rule too.
One hour out of the house for fresh air and exercise per day.

As far as I understand, this rule was only for the two weeks of MIQ (managed isolation and quarantine) that they had to do when arriving to New Zealand. Outside of MIQ, the rules for being outdoors during lockdown were just to stay apart from other families/groups and stick to your own "bubble".

Of course MIQ would've been tough with three young children, but there were still resources available. Part of the protocol was that you'd receive a phone call every morning to check on your mental and physical wellbeing and ask if you needed anything. There was also a line that you could call at anytime if you needed support, medical assistance, etc., so I think that if they'd been open about their struggles and the toll on Lauren's mental health, they certainly would've received extra support and accommodations.

 

[kiwi50]

As far as I understand, this rule was only for the two weeks of MIQ (managed isolation and quarantine) that they had to do when arriving to New Zealand. Outside of MIQ, the rules for being outdoors during lockdown were just to stay apart from other families/groups and stick to your own "bubble".

Of course MIQ would've been tough with three young children, but there were still resources available. Part of the protocol was that you'd receive a phone call every morning to check on your mental and physical wellbeing and ask if you needed anything. There was also a line that you could call at anytime if you needed support, medical assistance, etc., so I think that if they'd been open about their struggles and the toll on Lauren's mental health, they certainly would've received extra support and accommodations.

It really annoys me this woman complaining about their time in isolation, as least she had her husband with her, sure it was hard, but I had a good friend who was dying during this time her daughter was desperately trying to get to NZ from Australia, her mum died before she could finish her isolation, daughter still had to spend another week in isolation alone with just her three year old daughter with her.

 

[cjm11]

Sorry really not tech savvy at all! This text is from today's trial. You can find the whole day blog at the web address below.

What I wanted to point out was the last paragraph. What is your take? Was Liane asking her mother not to kill her??

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Yesterday07:43 pm
Jake Kenny

'In her mind, she was killing them out of love'​

Warning: This post contains details that may be upsetting.

Three expert witnesses were to be called by the defence.

They each found that Lauren was so unwell at the time that she did not know what she was doing was morally wrong. They also found that her mind was disturbed as a result of her postpartum depression, which means this was also a case of infanticide, Toohey said.

The Crown’s experts agree she was experiencing a major depressive episode, but they do not consider that she was insane, or it was an act of infanticide, Toohey said. Those experts seemed to conclude that Lauren’s postpartum depression had gone away in 2021, she said.

“They’ll also tell you that Lauren knew what she was doing was morally wrong."

Lauren had not recovered from postpartum depression, Toohey told the jury. The Crown must prove she had, and the defence says the Crown will not be able to make them sure of that, because three experts would give evidence to the contrary.

“In her mind, she was killing them out of love. Because she was killing herself, she didn’t want to leave her children behind. She was convinced this was the right thing to do … even when Liané asked her not to, and said she was a good mother, she had no emotional response to that.”

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Does anyone know why?
I do remember that my mother went through some spells where my sibs and I weren't allowed out of the house for days on end, and we were not allowed to play with other children in the neighborhood except under very limited conditions.

Those were the terms of the quarantine