GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

[silvercrown]

Am I reading the summary correctly? The husband told the psychiatrist that August 2021 marked the third time Lauren had told him she had thoughts about harming the children, but on the other hand he never had any concerns she that she would harm them.
From previously in the thread I remember reading that she was also previously diagnosed with PPD (although it wasn’t currently ‘active’) and taking medication for depression (although she had stopped taking them).

I said it before, and i know this isn’t everyone’s reality, but I can’t imagine a world in which my loved ones would not be screaming from the rooftops to get me help.
It seems to me like one of those things you think ‘it won’t happen to us/me’. However in this situation, hindsight offers numerous blaring signals that catastrophe was almost inevitable.

Although I don’t find it an excuse, I do ‘get’ that people snap. I just cannot reconcile in any way, a ‘snap’ being the methodical, one-by-one strangling murders of her children.

Sorry for my stream of consciousness. Everything I read from the trial coverage leaves my jaw on the floor.

 

[iamshadow21]

Sorry for my stream of consciousness. Everything I read from the trial coverage leaves my jaw on the floor.

RSBM

It's grim. It's really grim. Every time I think we've heard the worst of it, the next day of testimony starts and something new gutpunches me.

MOO

 

[annpats]

"The first twin (Karla) was being really, really horrible to me lately... that’s why I did her first."

That quote by Lauren Dickason is absolutely unbelievable. A revenge killing because your 2 year old child won't behave?!

The fact she's even thinking that way is frightening. I can't comprehend it.

Lauren Dickason police interview details why she killed her children

Dickason said something "triggered" her to suffocate her three children in 2021.

www.1news.co.nz

 

[silvercrown]

"The first twin (Karla) was being really, really horrible to me lately... that’s why I did her first."

That quote by Lauren Dickason is absolutely unbelievable. A revenge killing because your 2 year old child won't behave?!

The fact she's even thinking that way is frightening. I can't comprehend it.

Lauren Dickason police interview details why she killed her children

Dickason said something "triggered" her to suffocate her three children in 2021.

www.1news.co.nz

Right?!

I can’t even articulate how i feel about this case.

 

[iamshadow21]

"The first twin (Karla) was being really, really horrible to me lately... that’s why I did her first."

That quote by Lauren Dickason is absolutely unbelievable. A revenge killing because your 2 year old child won't behave?!

The fact she's even thinking that way is frightening. I can't comprehend it.

Lauren Dickason police interview details why she killed her children

Dickason said something "triggered" her to suffocate her three children in 2021.

www.1news.co.nz

It really really is, and it blows apart any defense that this wasn't about hating her children. She deliberately selected Karla to die first because she was most resentful of her at the time.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Lauren Dickason police interview details why she killed her children

Dickason said something "triggered" her to suffocate her three children in 2021.

www.1news.co.nz

(Emphasis and colour bolding by me.)

Kneebone asked her to talk about the girls' personalities.

“Liané is a dreamer. She’s always thinking of some weird and wonderful plan or experiment or magic potion... but doesn’t have ears.”

The detective asked, “Doesn’t listen?” She replied, “Not at all, and very lovable little girl.”

“Karla is the first twin… she’s a real little firecracker, she has got such a temper… and it scares me and it scares her dad.

“Maya’s a fruitcake, she just laughs and smiles at everybody. She’s a real happy-go-lucky but also experiencing the terrible twos right now.”

***

BUT BUT BUT

If you say about someone, "they're a lovely person, BUT..." then the second part tends to be what you really think of them.

She's asked to describe her kids' personalities, and she can't describe a single one of them without bringing in something judgmental and negative to counter any positivity.

MOO

 

[annpats]

It really really is, and it blows apart any defense that this wasn't about hating her children. She deliberately selected Karla to die first because she was most resentful of her at the time.

MOO

Yes!

And it also blows out the "insanity" defence, as she was clearly quite rational in choosing how to kill, and who to kill first.

She was making decisions to kill based on real life facts: "the children were misbehaving".

Criminal insanity refers to a mental illness or disease that makes it impossible for a defendant to know they were committing a crime or to understand that their actions are wrong.

Well, that doesn't apply in Lauren's case.
There were no voices, hallucinations, nor insane thoughts. She knew what she was doing and why she was doing it.

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes!

And it also blows out the "insanity" defence, as she was clearly quite rational in choosing how to kill, and who to kill first.

She was making decisions to kill based on real life facts "the children were misbehaving".

There were no voices, hallucinations, or insane thoughts.

She knew what she was doing and why she was doing it.

A lot of women who kill their children in the throes of psychosis do it out of fear for them or out of love. They fear some worse fate for them if they don't take that action, and only once they've regained sanity do they realise how flawed that thinking was, and then they are devastated. Here, you've got LD talking frankly at length about how badly behaved they were, how she resented them intruding on her alone time and relationship time with her husband and resented losing her career to parenthood, and how she did everything for them but they loved their father better, and how Karla was 'horrible' to her, so she chose her to die first.

Vicious, cold, calculated. Throw away the key.

MOO

 

[annpats]

...she resented them intruding on her alone time and relationship time with her husband and resented losing her career to parenthood, and how she did everything for them but they loved their father better, and how Karla was 'horrible' to her, so she chose her to die first.

Vicious, cold, calculated.

RSBM.

Sounds like an evil narcissist.

Makes me shudder that there are people like this. And the fact she was a medical doctor makes it even more incomprehensible. They are intelligent, well-educated, compassionate and caring, by nature and job.

 

[Sarahlou]

RSBM.

Sounds like an evil narcissist.

Makes me shudder that there are people like this. And the fact she was a medical doctor makes it even more incomprehensible. They are intelligent, well-educated, compassionate and caring, by nature and job.

They should be, but there's a lot who aren't unfortunately.

This case confuses me, the more I read I'm really not sure what to think.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Cathy Cvitanich and her husband were the first people Graham Dickason rang when he found his daughters' bodies.
She broke down in the witness box when she told the court how Dr Dickason was howling as they walked down the driveway.
"Graham was sitting in the driveway against the fence. He had his coat over his head and his hands on his head ... no shoes on," she said.
"He was really crying and saying 'my babies'."
Dickason told her his wife was mad and he could not believe she had killed their children, Cvitanich said.
"He said 'she's done this to hurt me'. Then he said 'It's my fault'. I told him it wasn't his fault, that he tried to do the best for his family and give them opportunities."
Cvitanich had met Lauren Dickason four days prior at a barbecue with other South African immigrants.

Lauren Dickason murder trial: 'She's done this to hurt me' father said after finding daughters' bodies

"She's done this to hurt me" were some of the first words from Lauren Dickason's husband after finding his three young daughters dead in their beds.

www.rnz.co.nz

Graham Dickason said, 'she did it to hurt me'. And I believe it, I bet he cooed and called them beautiful names that night, it would send a mother like this into a rage, and before he attended a function. I'm sure she said some things before he left but he continued out the door. She's had a nanny, she's had help, she hated those girls, not unlike other parents who've killed their children, even those in teen years!
Imo, she's relieved they're gone and she never has to see their faces again! She wants to convince the court these girls were monsters with angelic faces, the only monster, is her!

Darcy Freeman threw his 4 year old daughter off the West Gate Bridge, while her two young brothers watched. He was shaking uncontrollably with shock when he arrived at the police station. He couldn't speak, couldn't utter a word. This is not remorse or regret, he felt vindicated for taking the action he did, believed he was justified, and I believe LD feels the same.
He was sentenced to 32 years jail. Not enough imo.

 

[minusfour]

I'm not sure about NZ, but immigrants in poor health are not desired in Australia, mostly because of the burden of healthcare costs. (Free or heavily subsidised for life once residency is obtained)
In Australia- and I think it would be similar in NZ- health care professionals are sometimes quite wary about revealing/ seeking help for serious mental health problems-in case these become problems for their future registration as health care professionals.
Lauren was still at the start of the immigration process really. She had a long way to go to get permanent residency. In that context,it might have seemed reasonable to try to struggle on. I know she wasn't working as a dr in NZ, but I'm sure she one day hoped too. Dangling carrots.
I know it seems to most of us that she had a lot going for her, but I think in those terrible weeks she might not have felt that herself.

 

[annpats]

I know it seems to most of us that she had a lot going for her, but I think in those terrible weeks she might not have felt that herself.

But still no reason to murder all 3 of your children, 20 mins after your husband has left the house.

Child killers should get life imprisonment, and she is a triple child killer!

These weren't compassionate killings, and there is no insanity on her part.

I hope she doesn't hoodwink the judge and jury, this woman is a danger to herself and also to others!

Who's to say if she's freed, she won't go on to kill other people because they "misbehave" and/or she gets irritated or jealous of them??

 

[ChatteringBirds]

She's asked to describe her kids' personalities, and she can't describe a single one of them without bringing in something judgmental and negative to counter any positivity.

This is not uncommon. It doesn't mean you don't love your kids or would harm them. I hear parents do this, and I've done it. I think it either means you're not enjoying parenting at that stage or not happy with yourself and transferring that onto the kids.

 

[iamshadow21]

This is not uncommon. It doesn't mean you don't love your kids or would harm them. I hear parents do this, and I've done it. I think it either means you're not enjoying parenting at that stage or not happy with yourself and transferring that onto the kids.

Context is important, though.

Most bereaved parents can't or won't say anything negative about their dead child. All they can think about is the good things that they'll never see or experience from their child, ever again. Any negatives pale in comparison.

She's not saying these things in a group chat after a hard day potty training. She's saying this in a police interview after she murdered them.

MOO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

She's not saying these things in a group chat after a hard day potty training. She's saying this in a police interview after she murdered them.

You're right. I wasn't thinking about the context of it being afterwards, when she should be overwhelmed by guilt. It feels a little like, well sometimes I liked the kids but ultimately here is why I did what I did...
JMO/IMO.

 

[Sarahlou]

Context is important, though.

Most bereaved parents can't or won't say anything negative about their dead child. All they can think about is the good things that they'll never see or experience from their child, ever again. Any negatives pale in comparison.

She's not saying these things in a group chat after a hard day potty training. She's saying this in a police interview after she murdered them.

MOO

Her mental state would probably still be the same then as when she killed them though so I wouldn't expect what she said to be positive.

 

[iamshadow21]

Her mental state would probably still be the same then as when she killed them though so I wouldn't expect what she said to be positive.

Oh, no doubt. But resentment isn't insanity. And the detective said she was 'fully cognitive, engaged, and polite' and that there was nothing about her that gave him any concern that she was not suitable to speak with.

I would offer that she said negative things because that's how she felt about her children, even in death, and that she thought that by saying something positive first about each, it wouldn't stand out. (It did.)

MOO

 

[dotr]

The kids apparently had a great first day at school, the husband went out for what was said to be a work related function and LD was left to stew in resentment and envy.
Oh, she was going to ' fix 'them all, just 20 minutes after the husband walked out, bet she couldn't wait for him to get home so she could deliver the line ''it is too late'' and watch him suffer.

Not one single thing is attractive or interesting about this woman, my hope is that her husband divorces her, finds a comely, good-natured and motherly woman with whom to have children, boys would be preferable.

Complete speculation. imo

 

[iamshadow21]

The kids apparently had a great first day at school, the husband went out for what was said to be a work related function and LD was left to stew in resentment and envy.
Oh, she was going to ' fix 'them all, just 20 minutes after the husband walked out, bet she couldn't wait for him to get home so she could deliver the line ''it is too late'' and watch him suffer.

Not one single thing is attractive or interesting about this woman, my hope is that her husband divorces her, finds a comely, good-natured and motherly woman with whom to have children, boys would be preferable.

Complete speculation. imo

There's just so much malice in this. I haven't seen it in the other potential PPD/PPP cases I've followed. Those were just terribly sad. But I did see it watching Gannon's trial.

MOO