GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

[GoBuckeyes]

It really annoys me this woman complaining about their time in isolation, as least she had her husband with her, sure it was hard, but I had a good friend who was dying during this time her daughter was desperately trying to get to NZ from Australia, her mum died before she could finish her isolation, daughter still had to spend another week in isolation alone with just her three year old daughter with her.

That's a tragic situation that far too many people were forced to endure during CoV. I'm so sorry for your friend.

As an aside, I've rarely seen an individual's pain reduced by the pain of another. In other words, in the moment, all we can see as individuals is our perspective. Both of these women could truly have been suffering tremendously. I'm not saying that's the case, only that it's possible.

 

[tazza]

Sorry really not tech savvy at all! This text is from today's trial. You can find the whole day blog at the web address below.

What I wanted to point out was the last paragraph. What is your take? Was Liane asking her mother not to kill her??

That's how I understood it, but I was a bit confused because I don't think we've heard that discussed or reported previously?

If that's the case, how shocking and sad. I can imagine that after the first attempt on the children's lives wasn't successful, that might've been when Liané asked her mother to stop.

 

[iamshadow21]

That's how I understood it, but I was a bit confused because I don't think we've heard that discussed or reported previously?

If that's the case, how shocking and sad. I can imagine that after the first attempt on the children's lives wasn't successful, that might've been when Liané asked her mother to stop.

Reminds me of the poor Watts girls. At least one of them knew he'd killed her sister, knew that he was going to kill her, and begged him 'Daddy, no!'

Cold as ice.

MOO

 

[Sarahlou]

Sorry really not tech savvy at all! This text is from today's trial. You can find the whole day blog at the web address below.

What I wanted to point out was the last paragraph. What is your take? Was Liane asking her mother not to kill her??

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Yesterday07:43 pm
Jake Kenny

'In her mind, she was killing them out of love'​

Warning: This post contains details that may be upsetting.

Three expert witnesses were to be called by the defence.

They each found that Lauren was so unwell at the time that she did not know what she was doing was morally wrong. They also found that her mind was disturbed as a result of her postpartum depression, which means this was also a case of infanticide, Toohey said.

The Crown’s experts agree she was experiencing a major depressive episode, but they do not consider that she was insane, or it was an act of infanticide, Toohey said. Those experts seemed to conclude that Lauren’s postpartum depression had gone away in 2021, she said.

“They’ll also tell you that Lauren knew what she was doing was morally wrong."

Lauren had not recovered from postpartum depression, Toohey told the jury. The Crown must prove she had, and the defence says the Crown will not be able to make them sure of that, because three experts would give evidence to the contrary.

“In her mind, she was killing them out of love. Because she was killing herself, she didn’t want to leave her children behind. She was convinced this was the right thing to do … even when Liané asked her not to, and said she was a good mother, she had no emotional response to that.”

It sounds like that. How upsetting.
She was clearly very mentally unwell. Her mother said:

"I’d never seen her in as bad of a mental state as she was in before they left”.

“She seemed out of it, disconnected…I was concerned about that."

 

[Charlot123]

What a sad story.

Looking at the photos of these beautiful girls…there is profound sadness in me. IMHO, we may never know the full story of that family that might shed some light on the intrafamily dynamics.

Perhaps the idea of self-diagnosing or self-prescribing is not the best. Different moods can manifest as “depression and anxiety”, it is all too complex.

Also, one wonders what 17 rounds of IVF could do to one’s psyche. Most of medications used for ovarian stimulation have certain effects, or at least negative psychological response in a vulnerable person is not unusual. The situation with the fetus born prematurely must have been a horrible shock for Lauren.

I have a feeling that in this case, it would be really better if Lauren is deemed insane, not guilty. Her risk of self-harm in any place but a mental institution is too high. Either way, she lost everything. Her country, her support system, likely, her husband, her children, her good name. It is all too sad. RIP, Leone, Maya and Karla. P.S. my condolences to all relatives of the girls, and to egg donors, too.

 

[annpats]

It really annoys me this woman complaining about their time in isolation, as least she had her husband with her, sure it was hard, but I had a good friend who was dying during this time her daughter was desperately trying to get to NZ from Australia, her mum died before she could finish her isolation, daughter still had to spend another week in isolation alone with just her three year old daughter with her.

Yup, same here in the UK. Many people died alone. Husbands & wives weren't even allowed in the hospitals to be with them. Unbelievable.

So Lauren being anxious about being holed up during immigration quarantine for 2 weeks with her family, doesn't seem like too much of a problem. They were allowed out for 1 hour a day, and they were altogether, embarking on a new journey. It's a bit tough for a while, but not catastrophic.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

However, had they been honest about her mental health, immigration may have not happened and she would be happy, and children alive?

But she wasn't happy in South Africa. Her husband testified to her unhappiness there.

New Zealand is a country many people would love to move to.

However I could see the argument that because she felt New Zealand wouldn't support her past mental health history and allow her to continue seeing a psychiatrist there and allow them to stay long-term, you could argue that was one of the "last straws." JMO/IMO

 

[cjm11]

That's how I understood it, but I was a bit confused because I don't think we've heard that discussed or reported previously?

If that's the case, how shocking and sad. I can imagine that after the first attempt on the children's lives wasn't successful, that might've been when Liané asked her mother to stop.

I don't think we've heard about this yet either. That's why it shocked me so much to read it! My heart aches for everyone. Mental illness took another family. So, so sad.

 

[cjm11]

Today in the trial will be 5 psychiatrists. 2 for the Crown, 3 for the defence.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[cjm11]

It sounds like that. How upsetting.
She was clearly very mentally unwell. Her mother said:

"I’d never seen her in as bad of a mental state as she was in before they left”.

“She seemed out of it, disconnected…I was concerned about that."

Her mother, among other family and friends, noticed her decline and did nothing to help. Her mother even told everyone at get-togethers not to mention Lauren’s mental health to her. Don't bring it up. What, Mom says keep quiet and no one speaks up to help her during her very visible decline?

I thought she may have been a sociopath the way she has been represented. Now we finally start seeing the whole picture and everyone let Lauren and her precious girls down.

I do believe Lauren really wanted those kids - 17 rounds of IVF, still trying after being crushed losing Sarah at 22 weeks, trying again after having Liane. Her hormones must have been a huge factor in this infilicide. She seemed to have a support system, or did she?

 

[cjm11]

Today
07:34 pm
Jake Kenny
Jake Kenny
Five motives for parents killing children

Hatters-Friedman then moved on to the motives for child murder by parents.

The jury was shown a table that listed five: fatal maltreatment, unwanted child, partner revenge, altruistic, and acutely psychotic.

The most common motive was fatal treatment, she told the court. This is when a parent kills their child through abuse or neglect.

Unwanted child motive is when a child is killed by a parent because they are seen as a hindrance.

Partner revenge refers to the killing of a child to get revenge for a cheating partner, for example. This often occurs in custody disputes, infidelity or relationship issues.

Altruistic is when the parent kills a child “out of love”. It may be related to a parental suicide plan or beliefs about preventing or rescuing a child from a fate worse than death. An example of this in the United States a few years ago that was widely reported was a mother with postpartum depression who believed her children were going to hell for eternity. She believed if she killed them they would go to heaven, Hatters-Friedman said.

Acutely psychotic is the killing of a child in the throes of psychosis (because of hallucinations). The parent may be hearing voices (the voice of God) for example.

There can be crossover between altruistic and acutely psychotic, the court heard. The example used above was an example of a woman who was psychotic, but also killed her children out of love, Hatters-Friedman said.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Her mother, among other family and friends, noticed her decline and did nothing to help. Her mother even told everyone at get-togethers not to mention Lauren’s mental health to her. Don't bring it up. What, Mom says keep quiet and no one speaks up to help her during her very visible decline?

I thought she may have been a sociopath the way she has been represented. Now we finally start seeing the whole picture and everyone let Lauren and her precious girls down.

I do believe Lauren really wanted those kids - 17 rounds of IVF, still trying after being crushed losing Sarah at 22 weeks, trying again after having Liane. Her hormones must have been a huge factor in this infilicide. She seemed to have a support system, or did she?

Dunno hey.
If I’d murdered my three children one after the other, I’d want to suffer and be held responsible and accountable for my actions.
Even more especially as a doctor. You’re trained to recognise warning signs in patients. Why not present yourself when you know you’re clearly not right, for evidently a prolonged period of time? Ego? Reputation? At what point will this woman be held responsible?
How could you sit on a stand and say not guilty after doing that if you’re not a sociopath!?
IMOO MOO

 

[HMSHood]

Yea, I don't think she is insane either. I think it was more resentment than anything. The resentment caused the increasing depression. I don't think she did it out of love for the kids, it was love for herself and what she wanted. The kids were in the way.

Some people's resentment go back a long time as early as childhood. That is known as injustice collector.

 

[cjm11]

Dunno hey.
If I’d murdered my three children one after the other, I’d want to suffer and be held responsible and accountable for my actions.
Even more especially as a doctor. You’re trained to recognise warning signs in patients. Why not present yourself when you know you’re clearly not right, for evidently a prolonged period of time? Ego? Reputation? At what point will this woman be held responsible?
How could you sit on a stand and say not guilty after doing that if you’re not a sociopath!?

I believe she did it for the family so they could move to NZ. She was afraid in SA and thought NZ would be better. Husband had a job there and there was no rioting and looting. She tried to kill herself right after; first with a knife but could find none sharp enough. She then took pills (I haven't heard what kind). Her husband was an orthopedic surgeon and did nothing to help her medically before she got that bad.

I go back and forth with what I feel. Right now I feel she was very depressed and had a lot of anxiety (throughout her life). There were pressures of a quarantine right before they left, moving three small kids to a new country and having a quarantine upon arrival along with severe depression and severe anxiety. I believe this happened the week following the end of quarantine. Immigration was also wanting an update on her mental health. The original letter she sent wasn't detailed enough and requested a new one.

That's kind of where I'm at now. Tonight is the start of the testimony of 5 psychiatrists. That will be interesting.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Imo, she should pay the penalty for multiple murder. Someone needs to be on side of those children, they suffered for just existing, they'd taken a special place in the household, her husband's attention. Mothers can be jealous of their daughters, and fathers can be jealous of their offspring too. If a person feels their position has been usurped, even if it's their own child, they will resent them and depression will follow, many will continue to provide a home with no love, some will leave the nest because they can't win, and a very small number go on to seriously harm or murder that child.

Those poor baby girls, I will continue to say that, I don't care if their mother resents those words, if she's heard those words a thousand times before, I don't feel for her one iota. Hating and hating will lead to tragedy, will make you sick, will make you lose a grip on reality.
jmo

 

[tazza]

Just found this article from a couple of days ago from 1News. Apologies if it has already been posted, but it had details I hadn't seen before, particularly about Liané and what she said to Lauren right before she was killed. I was also shocked to read that Lauren intentionally killed Karla first.

It's one of the most upsetting pieces I've read about this case, just to warn you all.

Edit: Full article is worth reading, this is just a part of it.

1News: Lauren Dickason police interview details why she killed her children​

The interviewer asked her to explain what happened after her husband Graham Dickason left at 7pm that night. He was attending a work function.

She told him the kids started with "their usual hijinks", saying they were out of control.

"They don’t listen to me at all," she said. "I think that’s one thing lockdown has taught me – I don’t know my kids at all."

"You think you’re going to move to another town and things are going to be different, but it brings up a whole lot of new problems."

She explained she went in the garage looking for "something that would work".

The officer replied, “And when you went in you told the kids that you were making, doing necklaces, is that right?” She nodded her head.

Lauren Dickason was asked about the girls' reactions to what she was doing to them.

"Were they saying anything to you, Lauren?" She replied, “Not the two little ones, but the oldest one was very angry and she wants to know why I’m doing this to them because I’m the best mum and she loves me."

She said, "The first twin (Karla) was being really, really horrible to me lately... that’s why I did her first."

The detective asked, “When you’d finished, Lauren, did you know that they’d passed away?” She nods. “Did you check for any vital signs?”

“I listened for their hearts and pulses,” she said, and then she told him, “I decided to do something to myself."

 

[iamshadow21]

Just found this article from a couple of days ago from 1News. Apologies if it has already been posted, but it had details I hadn't seen before, particularly about Liané and what she said to Lauren right before she was killed. I was also shocked to read that Lauren intentionally killed Karla first.

It's one of the most upsetting pieces I've read about this case, just to warn you all.

Edit: Full article is worth reading, this is just a part of it.

Coherent. Cause and effect.

Feeling overwhelmed by spending so much time with them in lockdown. Killing them because she got sick of them jumping on the sofas and not listening to her. Choosing a weapon so kill them (the cable ties), then switching to suffocation when that wasn't doing the job. Checking the children's vital signs to be sure she'd killed them.

Where is insanity in this?

It's all very logical, very cool, very practical.

"Were they saying anything to you, Lauren?"

She replied, “Not the two little ones, but the oldest one was very angry and she wants to know why I’m doing this to them because I’m the best mum and she loves me."

Chris Watts all over again.

I'm betting the oldest girl wasn't 'angry' at all, but was desperately begging her mother for mercy, given her words. She knew she and her sisters were being killed.

Instead of giving them mercy, LD just read this plea as more anger and defiance, and made extra sure that all three of them died. Like Riley Ann Sawyers telling her killer 'I love you', instead of triggering a reprieve from LD, it catalysed her rage.

She said, "The first twin (Karla) was being really, really horrible to me lately... that’s why I did her first."

A reminder that Karla was two years old, and she's explaining killing her first as though it's a reasonable response to normal two-year-old behaviour. As though she deserved it for what she did to LD. That is spite, and that is the action of an injustice collector.

Very much my opinion only.

 

[iamshadow21]

Also:

She talked about how she missed being able to work after she had the children, saying, “I miss the alone time and just having time alone, for me.”

I don't think any parents would argue that kids take over your life and your priorities, but this is LD's refrain just hours after killing her children.

She wanted to be unencumbered, to not be a parent any more. And she decided that killing them would achieve that.

Chris Watts could have got a divorce and gone off to be with his girlfriend. But that's not what he wanted. He wanted to be single and childless, not divorced and paying child support.

LD wanted to go back to how her life was before the kids. She resented them. She resented their 'intrusion' into her alone time, into her time with her husband. She wanted a reset, not a divorce. A divorce wouldn't get her what she wanted. What she wanted could only happen if the girls died.

I don't believe the 'suicide attempt'. None of the knives were sharp enough? She managed to take so little medication to overdose that she walked to the ambulance, and she a trained doctor? She wanted the appearance of having done this while unbalanced, while legally not responsible. I have yet to see anything but depression resulting from having to raise children she despised.

MOO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Perhaps she thought having children would be easier and she'd feel loved all the time, hence the IVF. Her expectations were perhaps very unrealistic.

And when she felt rejected or disrespected by them - although their behavior was normal - she not only didn't love them but felt anger and coldness. JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Perhaps she thought having children would be easier and she'd feel loved all the time, hence the IVF. Her expectations were perhaps very unrealistic.

And when she felt rejected or disrespected by them - although their behavior was normal - she not only didn't love them but felt anger and coldness. JMO

Narcissistic injury, you mean? Sounds very plausible.

MOO