GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

[annpats]

Her mental state would probably still be the same then as when she killed them though so I wouldn't expect what she said to be positive.

That interview was at 17.20h the following day....so approximately 22 hours after she murdered them (at 19.00h the previous day.)

So, even a day later, she wasn't in tears, or hysterical with grief, or showing any signs of remorse.

 

[*LD*]

Just found this article from a couple of days ago from 1News. Apologies if it has already been posted, but it had details I hadn't seen before, particularly about Liané and what she said to Lauren right before she was killed. I was also shocked to read that Lauren intentionally killed Karla first.

It's one of the most upsetting pieces I've read about this case, just to warn you all.

Edit: Full article is worth reading, this is just a part of it.

Wow. What a look into her reasoning and actions. I cannot imagine her inner monologue.

 

[*LD*]

Just sending you a hug. I think most of us need one after reading that. I can't imagine seeing LD say that on video.

 

[*LD*]

And this likely is why neither her husband or mom had the balls to confront LD.

They ALWAYS knew she'd burn it all down. They're likely terrified of her reaction to ANYthing.

 

[Cedars]

That interview was at 17.20h the following day....so approximately 22 hours after she murdered them (at 19.00h the previous day.)

So, even a day later, she wasn't in tears, or hysterical with grief, or showing any signs of remorse.

I noticed also, she referred to them in the present tense.

"Liané is a dreamer....etc”

I wanted to interrupt and say 'No she's not. She's dead"

I suspect this was just denial, in order to preserve a positive image of herself. Very narcissistic, IMO. To a narcissist, children exist to enhance her life, make her look and feel good, not be a problem for her.

JMO

 

[Sarahlou]

That interview was at 17.20h the following day....so approximately 22 hours after she murdered them (at 19.00h the previous day.)

So, even a day later, she wasn't in tears, or hysterical with grief, or showing any signs of remorse.

It did say she was often distraught throughout the interview.
It would be interesting to see it.

 

[dotr]

Lauren Dickason's last words to her three little girls before she killed them

Lauren Dickason, who killed her three daughters, told a psychiatrist she thought the children would be better off in heaven because she was the worst wife and mother.

www.timeslive.co.za

''Lauren Dickason, who killed her three daughters, told a psychiatrist she thought the children would be better off in heaven because she was the worst wife and mother.

The defence team is presenting evidence to support their argument that she was suffering from post-partum depression and had a long-standing history of mental health challenges. She has pleaded not guilty to murder by reason of insanity or infanticide.''


''On the night she smothered the children and took an overdose, Dickason said she told them: “Mummy’s very sick and is going to die. I can’t leave you behind because I don’t know who’s going to look after you.”

Police asked Dickason about the girls' reactions to what she was doing to them.

“Were they saying anything to you, Lauren?”

She replied, “Not the two little ones, but the oldest one was very angry and she wants to know why I’m doing this to them because I’m the best mum and she loves me.”

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I can’t leave you behind because I don’t know who’s going to look after you.”

And there it is right there. It was a "no one else can have you" situation, IMO.

 

[Emerald1328]

I don’t think Lauren’s actions meet the legal definition of “insanity” or “infanticide” and feel she should get the maximum punishment available. She alone is responsible for her heinous actions.

I do have to admit though, as someone who has struggled with their mental health, I feel empathy for some things she experienced before this.

Twice before this happened she told her husband she had been having thoughts about killing the kids and his response both times was for her to take a bath (per the below linked live blog of his testimony on July 17th):

““One night, she came to me, after the kids had eaten ... she walked up to me and had a severe anxiety attack, in my opinion.

"She was crying and shaking ... she did mention that she could make an end to it all ... she (said) she feels like she could sedate the children and cut their arteries so it could all be over."
“I was taken aback. I was surprised. I didn’t understand where it was coming from…it was an absurd comment to make”.
Graham’s mind was not focused on her actually doing it, but wondering why she said it, and he connected it to the anxiety she was experiencing, he said.

He suggested she take a bath and he prepared the children for bed. After the bath, Graham asked Lauren if she knew what she said, and asked if she ever thought she could do such a thing.”

********

“A third incident occurred a couple of months later when the family were in isolation at Graham’s mother's house, prior to departing to New Zealand.

It was a “lesser incident”, he said.

Lauren described “having that feeling again”, although there were no specific details mentioned, he said.

Graham wasn’t exactly sure if it was an anxious feeling, or a feeling that she might harm the kids.

He just wanted to ease her anxiety, and suggested she take a bath and take an anxiety tablet, he told the court.””

*****

That must have felt so defeating for her. It’s not his fault she killed the girls, but I hope if someone comes to him in the future with thoughts such as these, he will take a different approach. JMO.

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

 

[cjm11]

I don’t think Lauren’s actions meet the legal definition of “insanity” or “infanticide” and feel she should get the maximum punishment available. She alone is responsible for her heinous actions.

I do have to admit though, as someone who has struggled with their mental health, I feel empathy for some things she experienced before this.

Twice before this happened she told her husband she had been having thoughts about killing the kids and his response both times was for her to take a bath (per the below linked live blog of his testimony on July 17th):

““One night, she came to me, after the kids had eaten ... she walked up to me and had a severe anxiety attack, in my opinion.

"She was crying and shaking ... she did mention that she could make an end to it all ... she (said) she feels like she could sedate the children and cut their arteries so it could all be over."
“I was taken aback. I was surprised. I didn’t understand where it was coming from…it was an absurd comment to make”.
Graham’s mind was not focused on her actually doing it, but wondering why she said it, and he connected it to the anxiety she was experiencing, he said.

He suggested she take a bath and he prepared the children for bed. After the bath, Graham asked Lauren if she knew what she said, and asked if she ever thought she could do such a thing.”

********

“A third incident occurred a couple of months later when the family were in isolation at Graham’s mother's house, prior to departing to New Zealand.

It was a “lesser incident”, he said.

Lauren described “having that feeling again”, although there were no specific details mentioned, he said.

Graham wasn’t exactly sure if it was an anxious feeling, or a feeling that she might harm the kids.

He just wanted to ease her anxiety, and suggested she take a bath and take an anxiety tablet, he told the court.””

*****

That must have felt so defeating for her. It’s not his fault she killed the girls, but I hope if someone comes to him in the future with thoughts such as these, he will take a different approach. JMO.

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

I can't find it now, it was in the trial during the police interview, there was one time she told him how she was feeling and he shut her down for good. He angrily slammed his hand on the bed, told her to stop saying such things, and something to the effect that they wouldn't let them stay in NZ. He was the one she talked to about anything and he shut down her last life line.

I'm still on the fence right now. Will be interesting to hear all psychiatrists. Tonight may be the last day til our Sunday night.

 

[Emerald1328]

I can't find it now, it was in the trial during the police interview, there was one time she told him how she was feeling and he shut her down for good. He angrily slammed his hand on the bed, told her to stop saying such things, and something to the effect that they wouldn't let them stay in NZ. He was the one she talked to about anything and he shut down her last life line.

I'm still on the fence right now. Will be interesting to hear all psychiatrists. Tonight may be the last day til our Sunday night.

Yes, and told her to put her big girl panties on and deal with it as well. I wish she had been able to get the help she seemed to be begging for.

 

[cjm11]

First psychiatrist for the defence.

Today
07:32 pm
Jake Kenny
Jake Kenny

Expert's formal opinion

Hatters-Friedman then began to discuss her formal opinion of Lauren.

At the time of the offending, Lauren had symptoms of major depressive disorder with psychotic features, she told the court. Her depression had significantly worsened and she developed psychotic features shortly before the killings, Hatters-Friedman said.

This appeared to have reached a delusional level, her diagnosis noted. Lauren was preoccupied with safety and had a skewed view on reality. She had exaggerated fears that increased in New Zealand despite no new added relevant stressor.

In August 2021, she had a relapse of her postpartum depression and had to be put back on antidepressants after taking herself off them in March.

Subsequent to the killings, Lauren received substantial medication to help treat her depression and psychosis, the psychiatrist noted.

She concluded that Lauren was not faking her mental illness in the weeks prior. To the contrary, at times she was actually trying to hide her symptoms.

In Timaru Hospital afterwards, she attempted to stockpile her sleep medication for a potential overdose.

 

[cjm11]

More formal opinion

Today
08:08 pm
Jake Kenny

Dickason was in a depressed psychotic state, expert says

Hatters-Friedman told the jury that she believed that Lauren was labouring under a disease of the mind at the time of the killings that rendered her incapable of knowing what she was doing was morally wrong.

This would make her not guilty by reason of insanity.

She added that Lauren’s motive for killing the children was an altruistic one, when a parent kills their child “out of love”.

Lauren thought she was sending the children to safety by killing them, and was removing a burden from Graham that she and the children were providing, Hatters-Friedman said.

Beaton then asked Hatters-Friedman on her view that the Crown’s two experts did not find Lauren’s motive was an altruistic one.

“She by all counts was a loving mother… was looking for a better life for them," Hatters-Friedman said.

Hatters-Friedman concluded that Lauren thought she was removing her children from an unsafe environment that she saw through her own depressed psychotic state.

“She perceived that she and the children would go to heaven together, believing that she did not perceive that what she was doing was morally wrong," Hatters-Friedman said.

 

[cjm11]

Final questioning by defence.

Today
08:25 pm
Jake Kenny

Killings not consistent with planning, expert says

Hatters-Friedman said it was also her opinion that at the time of the killings, Lauren’s mind was disturbed by a disorder that was a consequence of child birth.

This meant she believed that Lauren’s case was also one of infanticide.

When Lauren came off her medication earlier in March 2021, her postpartum depression symptoms relapsed, the psychiatrist noted.

She self-discontinued them without following it up and while she began taking them again in August, it took time for the medication to work.

“The depression was the depression she always had… it got worse”.

Beaton then asked if Hatters-Friedman believed what happened to the girls was impulsive, or if she thought it was premeditated.

The Crown experts are expected to conclude that it was premeditated.

“She saw the cable ties in the context of her depression and used them," Hatters-Friedman said.

"If she’d been planning to kill her children… why would she use a method that her husband just happened to purchase, rather than the method she’d searched up herself?”

The psychiatrist said the offending was not consistent with planning.

Beaton: “In your opinion, are Lauren Dickason’s thoughts and actions related to her mental illness, or to her anger towards the children?”

Hatters-Friedman: “Certainly her mental health”.

 

[AmandaSkis]

I don't think these are very heavy or severe medications, the cipramil especially is one of the first ones prescribed by a doctor for depression/anxiety.

I think she needed something a lot stronger, even anti-psychotic medication, but, alas, I do think she was hiding a lot of her real thoughts and feelings.

And I have a question about the medicine. I would like to know how long she was on it. Because if we have all of these text messages going back to 2016 in which she talks about wanting to harm her children and feeling depressed and anxious, then it doesn’t sound like the meds were even working. So, for me, knowing that she went off of her meds recently but was still writing about hurting her kids, feeling anxious, etc, I can’t blame this on a sudden withdrawal of medicine.

 

[AmandaSkis]

And why is it that family annihilators seem to talk about suicide but are not successful? In this case, she had no issues finding a method to kill three children. I find it hard to believe that she could not have found a successful method had she been sincere about suicide.

And, as others have noted, yes, the people in her life could have tried to do something. But she also could’ve taken responsibility and done some thing about her mental health.

Was she working as a doctor? In South Africa, are doctors required to pass boards? Did she have an active license to practice medicine?

 

[HinterlandObserver]

And why is it that family annihilators seem to talk about suicide but are not successful? In this case, she had no issues finding a method to kill three children. I find it hard to believe that she could not have found a successful method had she been sincere about suicide.

And, as others have noted, yes, the people in her life could have tried to do something. But she also could’ve taken responsibility and done some thing about her mental health.

Was she working as a doctor? In South Africa, are doctors required to pass boards? Did she have an active license to practice medicine?

A terribly “unloving” method of murder too, if you were being altruistic.. Not painless or confusion free for the children. She wanted them to know they were being murdered.
Daddy would look after them if she wasn’t around. And maybe a kind not murderous step mum.
But she couldn’t have that.

 

[Charlot123]

And I have a question about the medicine. I would like to know how long she was on it. Because if we have all of these text messages going back to 2016 in which she talks about wanting to harm her children and feeling depressed and anxious, then it doesn’t sound like the meds were even working. So, for me, knowing that she went off of her meds recently but was still writing about hurting her kids, feeling anxious, etc, I can’t blame this on a sudden withdrawal of medicine.

(I am not even sure it was pure depression). There are too many questions. It sounds like Lauren’s mother and husband were quite aware of her mental health. It was longstanding, too. Why allow a woman who is obviously stressed and traumatized go through 17 cycles of IVF? How much help was provided to Lauren when the kids were infants? The dad was the provider. Maybe in Pretoria they had round-the-clock help; I wouldn’t be surprised if their nanny was more a mother to the girls. One wonders if the girls were acting out in quarantine because they missed the nanny. Moving the family away from Pretoria, instability and all, i understand, but still, from a 2.3 million city to Timaru, a 30-thousand one? Without any family, friends or existing support in place? There is something about Lauren’s mother and her husband…denial? Or being tired of the situation?

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t think Lauren’s actions meet the legal definition of “insanity” or “infanticide” and feel she should get the maximum punishment available. She alone is responsible for her heinous actions.

I do have to admit though, as someone who has struggled with their mental health, I feel empathy for some things she experienced before this.

Twice before this happened she told her husband she had been having thoughts about killing the kids and his response both times was for her to take a bath (per the below linked live blog of his testimony on July 17th):

““One night, she came to me, after the kids had eaten ... she walked up to me and had a severe anxiety attack, in my opinion.

"She was crying and shaking ... she did mention that she could make an end to it all ... she (said) she feels like she could sedate the children and cut their arteries so it could all be over."
“I was taken aback. I was surprised. I didn’t understand where it was coming from…it was an absurd comment to make”.
Graham’s mind was not focused on her actually doing it, but wondering why she said it, and he connected it to the anxiety she was experiencing, he said.

He suggested she take a bath and he prepared the children for bed. After the bath, Graham asked Lauren if she knew what she said, and asked if she ever thought she could do such a thing.”

********

“A third incident occurred a couple of months later when the family were in isolation at Graham’s mother's house, prior to departing to New Zealand.

It was a “lesser incident”, he said.

Lauren described “having that feeling again”, although there were no specific details mentioned, he said.

Graham wasn’t exactly sure if it was an anxious feeling, or a feeling that she might harm the kids.

He just wanted to ease her anxiety, and suggested she take a bath and take an anxiety tablet, he told the court.””

*****

That must have felt so defeating for her. It’s not his fault she killed the girls, but I hope if someone comes to him in the future with thoughts such as these, he will take a different approach. JMO.

Stuff

i.stuff.co.nz

It is very concerning. Technically speaking, Graham ought to have had Lauren committed at that point (she voiced thoughts about killing her children in a very violent way - see the article for details) but it is almost like NZ was eclipsing everything. I don’t have the heart to judge the father who ended up in such a tragic situation. However, one keeps wondering how much about their life circumstances we do not know, and how our view of the situation would have changed if we knew more. I am not implying anything, I simply wonder. https://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-an...-zealand-137921c0-abb8-474c-89ca-abc37e59376b

 

[Sararara]

There are very clear signs of narcissism here to the extent that we can exclude other conditions.
LD shows signs of:
Viewing her children as an extension of herself- they cannot live if she does not live

Resentment at the children’s growing independence (complaining that they have no ears etc)

Jealousy and competition with her children (feels they liked Graham better than her, angry that Graham was loving towards them)

Anger when the children did not comply with her wishes (for normal parents this is frustrating, for narcissists this produces rage)

Interpreting normal childish behaviour as a deliberate attack on her (she killed Karla first because she had been “mean” to her- a 2 year old; in a text message she said her kids were “abusing” her)

Self-centredness and self-absorption, to the point that she openly explains her reasons for killing the children in the video almost as if she thinks PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND AND EMPATHISE. No Lauren, we do not think like you do, and we cannot relate.

The killing was triggered by narcissistic injuries (feeling shame because the house/town they had moved to were disgusting and unkempt, she could not have her nice grand things anymore- supposedly they had the nicest house on the estate in SA, and then the kids not listening to her)

Dumping all of her negative emotions and thoughts on friends all the time (probably why they didn’t take it seriously- she’s a drama Queen)

Ultimately, LD knew what she was doing. She is manipulating everyone now to make it look like she is a victim, and way too many people are falling for it. Mothers can be depressed, psychotic, and overwhelmed. They can also be evil. And they SUFFER for it. Narcissism is a horrible disorder. It’s miserable for the narcissist. They are often perfectionists, depressed, always trying to be and look good enough, and taking it out on everyone else when they don’t. But that doesn’t make her insane.

Just like Chris Watts, LD has deluded herself into thinking that people will believe her story. I hope we don’t. I hope we see the proverbial sheet flying away from the crime scene (which is what gave CW away in the end). It’s right there in her texts and police interview.