GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

[Jamie737]

Given that the father has already expressed ‘forgiveness’ and said that ‘Lauren is also a victim’ I am guessing that a psychiatric flare was brought on by a combination of factors: off treatment, high levels of stress of the isolation process and a predisposition to mental health crises.

The remand period will reveal what the underlying diagnosis is that has resulted in such extreme out-of-character behaviour. It does sound from some of the reporting as if she tried to hang or suffocate herself.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Timaru tragedy: Father of dead girls says he'll carry loss 'for the rest of my life' - NZ Herald

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Every case is different, I think.

I only read some of what's in this thread, but in this case (Lauren's) I think she had a temporary break from reality due to the effects of stopping needed medication and severe sleep deprivation, and possibly post-partum factors (depression? And were the younger kids still nursing?)

Does anyone think this would have still happened if she'd stayed on the needed medication and had proper sleep? I think no way. She wanted and loved their children.

I know a lot of us have been through severe sleep deprivation without this kind of break happening, but maybe her brain couldn't handle the combination of all factors. And I think the effects of stopping the medication surely played a large role in this.

What we need to learn more about -
Why does stopping medication rarely cause someone to have this kind of mental break; what is happening in their brain?
And why is violence sometimes the result?

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

With the stopping medicine, there may be a big difference between stopping abruptly (ie just not taking it) and supervised withdrawal under a doctor (gradual reduction of daily dosage and careful monitoring of symptoms etc).

 

[everybodhi]

Not sure what your point is.?
I think we’d need to see other countries child abuse statistics before deciding we are one of the worst.
These three killings will certainly skew NZ’s figures for this year, which seems pretty unfair considering the Dickersons had only been here 3 weeks.
I doubt NZ contributed much to this crime.

I don't think any country is free of filicide as a result of mothers suffering from mental health problems, even the most lovely western countries in the world have their share.
I didn't make up the statistic, I googled it, then quoted and linked what I found, it doesn't include these three deaths.
I chose that link because it talks about broken systems in wealthy countries where help is hard to come by and the link to "social deprivation, inequality and poverty", which is more often the reality in driving hopelessness resulting in filicide than the case here, with the contrasting reality that the lack of a nanny and a planned move to a nice home with a loving husband to beautiful NZ, without the necessary mental health treatment, can also drive a woman to kill all her children, brutally.
It's not that wealthy women don't suffer, accessing mental health treatment can be a problem for anyone who needs it, but it appears to me the wealthy have more understanding from society when they have a psychotic break.
A poor, less educated woman killing her children is generally labeled a monster, often even if someone else kills her children she is blamed for not protecting them. There's tons of threads here as examples.
I only wish all women struggling with motherhood could get the help they need which is most likely in the form of a good therapist and a secure, safe, environment. Many mothers struggle without the most basic support, as well as a nanny, they all deserve our empathy.
jmo

 

[dotr]

LISTEN | 'She would have turned seven, She's now an angel in heaven': Special day for murdered Dickason girl
''LISTEN | 'She would have turned seven, She's now an angel in heaven': Special day for murdered Dickason girl
Victim of apparent filicide would have turned seven''

rbbm.
Tragic end to Pretoria medical family’s new life New Zealand - Medical Brief
''A combination of stress and the fact that Lauren could not use her medication mighty have made coping difficult for her, the person said. The condition she suffers from was not explained.''

''Shortly before they left for New Zealand Lauren had shared a Facebook message that read: “I am bent, but not broken. I’m sad, but not hopeless. I’m tired but not lifeless. I’m scared, but not powerless. I have wanted to give up, but did not. How do you get it right, many people ask. My answer remains the same – because the Lord gives me strength to stand up.”

A rush to condemn

In an opinion piece on Parent 24, Samantha Herbst wrote that “social media is on fire …to some condemn 40-year-old South African expat and mother Lauren Dickason to worse than the fiery pits of hell”.

But, Herbst wrote, empathy is a very fine line between condemnation and justification. “It's at this juncture that we can either join the ranks of condemnors or dare to look down the precipice and really consider what happened in the Dickason household that night. What were the contributing factors that set this unimaginable tragedy in motion?''
''
“The act of killing – or wanting to kill – our own children should never be excused or normalised. But what about the red flags paving the way to tragedy? The more we as mothers talk about our darkest and most shameful experiences, the more we see we are not alone and the better the chance at intervention before tragedy strikes.

“Maternal mental health advocate and lactation therapist Jabina Coleman wrote, ‘Everyone wants to hold the baby, who will hold the mother?’ It's a question that stuck with me in early motherhood and it's one I hope sticks with you.''''

 

[Catmommy]

If this or any other mentally ill mother said to even one person "I'm thinking of killing my child/children" I have no doubt that someone would have intervened.

 

[Marysmith]

I don't think any country is free of filicide as a result of mothers suffering from mental health problems, even the most lovely western countries in the world have their share.
I didn't make up the statistic, I googled it, then quoted and linked what I found, it doesn't include these three deaths.
I chose that link because it talks about broken systems in wealthy countries where help is hard to come by and the link to "social deprivation, inequality and poverty", which is more often the reality in driving hopelessness resulting in filicide than the case here, with the contrasting reality that the lack of a nanny and a planned move to a nice home with a loving husband to beautiful NZ, without the necessary mental health treatment, can also drive a woman to kill all her children, brutally.
It's not that wealthy women don't suffer, accessing mental health treatment can be a problem for anyone who needs it, but it appears to me the wealthy have more understanding from society when they have a psychotic break.
A poor, less educated woman killing her children is generally labeled a monster, often even if someone else kills her children she is blamed for not protecting them. There's tons of threads here as examples.
I only wish all women struggling with motherhood could get the help they need which is most likely in the form of a good therapist and a secure, safe, environment. Many mothers struggle without the most basic support, as well as a nanny, they all deserve our empathy.
jmo

This was a great post.
I have to admit I am struggling with empathy over this case because I feel the perpetrator was so privileged. Was she tapered off the medication? Was she being followed by a professional because of going off whatever medication she was on? Did her husband know that she was struggling mentally?
Ugh.

 

[scapa]

This was a great post.
I have to admit I am struggling with empathy over this case because I feel the perpetrator was so privileged. Was she tapered off the medication? Was she being followed by a professional because of going off whatever medication she was on? Did her husband know that she was struggling mentally?
Ugh.

It is puzzling.

As someone who left one country for another upon becoming a doc (UK to Canada) and brought someone with me, I can confirm the relatively low level of integrative support that was available to us upon arrival -- there wasn't any, beyond assignation of a local "mentor" who I think we met with once. It was hard. It is hard. Even learning the lingua franca of new clinical and hospital methodologies takes a LOT of effort.

Furthermore, there can be stigma between medical professionals regarding certain meds and treatments that might be said to degrade performance (whether they do or not) but that stigma has eased considerably, and there's a wealth of resources open to many of us, especially in Covid times, where stress and burnout are understandably through the roof. Even in a quarantine hotel, even during the disturbing symptoms of withdrawal.

OTOH, people emigrate for all sorts of reasons, and face enormous barriers in terms of language, culture, economics and medical conditions of all kinds, without the resources to cope now or in the future. They don't necessarily leave behind nannies/ house staffs and lives of relative privilege, and most find ways to cope, despite profound ongoing obstacles.

That said, I suspect that more will be learned here, and the ability of the grieving husband and other family members to adjust the media narrative as they try to absorb this loss is going to be very important to what unfolds. It may not be as simple or baffling as what we are hearing now.

IMO, with apologies for self-reference. Although many of these concerns are general to the profession, I'd say.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

It may not be as simple or baffling as what we are hearing now.

Are you able to explain further?

 

[squish]

I can't believe the amount of sympathy this child killer is getting. Even sympathy for how difficult diddums must have found life without her nanny, gardener and maid!

I guarantee that if this woman was not an upper-middle-class, upstanding "professional" she wouldn't be getting this level of hand-wringing and excuse-making. Say she was a long-term unemployed single mum on benefits with an alcohol problem, who had strangled all her tiny children. She would definitely not be getting the immediate assumption that she must be a kind, innocent woman who must have suffered a psychotic break.

Yes emigrating is hard, parenting is hard, quarantine is hard. But most people going through these challenging life events manage to not kill their children.

Even if she had psychosis, I don't think that automatically excuses murder. It might do - say if she truly believed the devil was in her children and God wanted her to do it. But it will be hard to prove and easy to say, and if she was purposefully avoiding psychiatric medication to dupe immigration authorities, the murder would still be somewhat her fault. She shouldn't have gone off meds if she was a danger to herself or others, and she shouldn't have been taking care of her children if she wasn't safe to do so.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

@squish I see one point you are making: if someone knows they need medication and chooses to stop taking it, they are responsible for that choice and the outcome.

But she may have really believed she didn't need it anymore, slowly gone off the medication, and been fine, until suddenly she wasn't.
I disagree she would have necessarily realized she wasn't safe to take care of her children.

You know no one expects to have this kind of break with reality. Anyway she'll forever be paying the price.

This is a very different case than one in which the murderer is a long-term abuser of alcohol, as in your other example.
To me employment status is irrelevant, but the abuse of mind-altering substances would be seen differently, because it is really different.

 

[dotr]

Flowers left in SAfrica after 3 girls killed in NZ
Sep 28, 2021

 

[squish]

@squish I see one point you are making: if someone knows they need medication and chooses to stop taking it, they are responsible for that choice and the outcome.

But she may have really believed she didn't need it anymore, slowly gone off the medication, and been fine, until suddenly she wasn't.
I disagree she would have necessarily realized she wasn't safe to take care of her children.

You know no one expects to have this kind of break with reality. Anyway she'll forever be paying the price.

This is a very different case than one in which the murderer is a long-term abuser of alcohol, as in your other example.
To me employment status is irrelevant, but the abuse of mind-altering substances would be seen differently, because it is really different.

Rather than substance abuse or employment status specifically, my point was about social class and the way this woman is perceived. There is the implicit assumption here that she is not abusing mind-altering substances, and the reason for that is because of her being upper-middle class. I don't think the assumptions that the general public would make about a woman perceived as trashy/lower class who had killed her three small children, would be so generous. In fact the immediate assumption would be if she's on drugs or alcohol.

My whole point is that generosity in the assumptions and the empathy afforded to this woman are purely because of her class status.

Edit: Also there is the implicit assumption that she may have not realized the state she was in, as opposed to just irresponsible, which is opposite assumption that would be made of a lower-class woman. Finally, also I think the children have paid the ultimate price, not her.

 

[Marysmith]

Rather than substance abuse or employment status specifically, my point was about social class and the way this woman is perceived. There is the implicit assumption here that she is not abusing mind-altering substances, and the reason for that is because of her being upper-middle class. I don't think the assumptions that the general public would make about a woman perceived as trashy/lower class who had killed her three small children, would be so generous. In fact the immediate assumption would be if she's on drugs or alcohol.

My whole point is that generosity in the assumptions and the empathy afforded to this woman are purely because of her class status.

Edit: Also there is the implicit assumption that she may have not realized the state she was in, as opposed to just irresponsible, which is opposite assumption that would be made of a lower-class woman. Finally, also I think the children have paid the ultimate price, not her.

Great post! You are very eloquent.

 

[squish]

Thank you

Great post! You are very eloquent.

 

[investikater]

[...]Was she tapered off the medication? Was she being followed by a professional because of going off whatever medication she was on? Did her husband know that she was struggling mentally?
Ugh.

With the stopping medicine, there may be a big difference between stopping abruptly (ie just not taking it) and supervised withdrawal under a doctor (gradual reduction of daily dosage and careful monitoring of symptoms etc).

Why does everyone keep forgetting that SHE IS A DOCTOR and that HER HUSBAND IS A DOCTOR?!!! There was a doctor with her when she was packing. There was a doctor with her on the airplane. There was a doctor with her in the quarantine hotel room 24 hours a day for 2 weeks. There was a doctor in her house. There was an entire hospital full of doctors meters away from her house. There was even a doctor in the room when she killed those little girls: herself.

 

[Marysmith]

Why does everyone keep forgetting that SHE IS A DOCTOR and that HER HUSBAND IS A DOCTOR?!!! There was a doctor with her when she was packing. There was a doctor with her on the airplane. There was a doctor with her in the quarantine hotel room 24 hours a day for 2 weeks. There was a doctor in her house. There was an entire hospital full of doctors meters away from her house. There was even a doctor in the room when she killed those little girls: herself.

Yes of course. You can’t prescribe for and treat a family member though.
But I agree with you - IMO there is a higher standard because of their professions.

 

[Marysmith]

Why does everyone keep forgetting that SHE IS A DOCTOR and that HER HUSBAND IS A DOCTOR?!!! There was a doctor with her when she was packing. There was a doctor with her on the airplane. There was a doctor with her in the quarantine hotel room 24 hours a day for 2 weeks. There was a doctor in her house. There was an entire hospital full of doctors meters away from her house. There was even a doctor in the room when she killed those little girls: herself.

And maybe she pretended she was fine and came up with a plan for whatever reason she believed… we just don’t know. I hope we will and it can maybe help others.

 

[cocomod]

Like most professions, sometimes doctors diagnose their own family last. Carpenters have unfinished homes, electricians don’t fix their lights, and doctors don’t catch the signs. My sister-in-law is a pediatric PA. Her daughter was diagnosed at the age of 8 with juvenile diabetes. Where was she diagnosed? In the hospital. Did mom see the signs? Yes, she acknowledges the symptoms were there and missed - hindsight 20/20. She works all day with patients with the same problem, but didn’t see the signs in her own daughter until they ended up in the hospital. Does that make her a bad doctor or a bad mom?? No! It makes her human.