Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

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All & Forward said:
This is a crime forum so surely people expect these details and understand how cases unravel though?

Just feels like there's a certain tilt on here which is very emotive. This has nothing to do with rape culture or whatever other buzz terminology people want to trot out. No one is blaming her for anything. She got in a silly position and of course the blame is on the accused if he is indeed guilty, but I don't get why people think it's so grubby her sexual history is being brought up.

It was a sexual crime.

Going back to the gun hypothetical: if you've never had an empty clip pointed at your head (this is very Janice Soprano and Richie Aprille) but you're shot in the head and someone's defense is 'we always did it sexually! It was an accident' then the route of murder is a likely and possible one and worth pursuit.

However if it can be established that yes, you indeed have regular sex with a gun pointed to your head – and had done it with previous partners – and again borrowing from The Sopranos, and you 'usually take the clip out,' then manslaughter is the route.
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I think people are probably just imagining their own sexual history on display for their family and the world to see.
 
Kikixxxx said:
I get you but if you 'accidentally' kill someone, do you really then go on pornhub after and take pictures of the corpse?.. do you really not notice a dead body lying there after your shower? the rooms not that big. and again do you go on tinder and arrange another date while a dead body is still lying in your hotel room, half hanging out a suitcase. His actions don't look like someone that accidentally murdered someone to me... I also struggle to see how there was so much blood from just a nose bleed? the cast off drops on the fridge too, it just doesn't add up. The cast off drops means the blood would still have had to be wet when he lifted her (or however else that blood got there) and that goes against what he says about finding her dead the next day.. the blood would have been dry by then?
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You could go out and intentionally kill another person afterward. While it would present difficulty in trying to 'get off' the first charge as manslaughter, all that matters is the immediate charge.

Even people with PHDs and I'm assuming at least a decade in their highly trained profession were unable to clearly present a reason for the nose bleed. It doesn't seem indicative of anything and could be from any number of things. There are always things unanswered in these cases. Thankfully it's not a major blank.

All of these oddities and issues – searching *advertiser censored*, searching for vultures existing in New Zealand, the previous accused actions – are not proof of murder. They're not irrelevant to the immediate 'act,' but they are not proof of anything either.

You have to apply deductive reasoning.
 
All & Forward said:
It's a bit uncouth considering her name was Grace...

Far too often these stories are overshadowed by people saying 'it could have been me.' It's self-indulgent.
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Likely because people relate to
Grace. She was a beautiful young girl in the prime of her life. Travelling the world. Doing things many of us have done/would love to do. She did things each and every one of us do/have done. I too have met men from dating apps, gone to a private location and had risky sex similar to what she engaged in.
As a young woman, you like to think you’re invisible, but things like this make you more aware of how very fragile life really is.

So personally, if it makes even one young Man/woman stop and think before putting Him/herself into a potentially risky situation, alone with someone they don’t know, then that’s good enough for me! Be as emotional and self-indulgent as you want. I’m sure Graces parents would be pleased to know her daughters death is having a positive impact into the choices dating app users make.
 
All & Forward said:
Just feels like there's a certain tilt on here which is very emotive. This has nothing to do with rape culture or whatever other buzz terminology people want to trot out. No one is blaming her for anything. She got in a silly position and of course the blame is on the accused if he is indeed guilty, but I don't get why people think it's so grubby her sexual history is being brought up.

It was a sexual crime.

.
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SBM.

IMO, saying "she got in a silly position" is victim blaming. Literally millions of strangers meet in clubs and on apps. They have sex, go home and may or may not see that person again. It's not a silly position, and they certainly don't expect to die

Also, let's not forget, we only think it's a sexual crime/breath play/kink, because he (and his defence team) are shaping that narrative.

Maybe she mentioned in passing that she did it sometimes with her ex. They go back to his room and have "vanilla" sex. He then strangles her later and uses that excuse with the police.
It's not like he hasn't lied to them about other things and changed his story.
He nearly suffocated that other girl and she hadn't suggested it to him...

All moo
 
[QUOTE="All & Forward, post: 15592111, member: 235079]
Even people with PHDs and I'm assuming at least a decade in their highly trained profession were unable to clearly present a reason for the nose bleed. It doesn't seem indicative of anything and could be from any number of things. There are always things unanswered in these cases. Thankfully it's not a major blank.[/QUOTE]

Didn’t the pathologist say that he was unable to rule out trauma to the face or nose due to the level of decomposition of her face? Obviously there were no nose or facial bone fractures, but that still doesn’t completely rule out facial trauma.
 
your right his actions afterwards don't mean supposedly, but you could also say that about grace's choking interests in that case, just cause she liked it with previous partners/ex bfs doesn't mean she wanted it with the accused right? ( its likely she did but we still don't really know, she didn't with the guy the night before). Why are we supposed to just suddenly start believing this guys version of events who's been proven to be a pathological liar? he lied to the police, he lies to all his dates, he lies about his employment, he lied about a money situation to his landlord, who's to say he isn't lying now?
 
As the court resumes, the defence reads to the jury its statement of agreed facts.

It includes four conversations Grace had with men she matched with on BDSM dating app Whiplr, which were extracted from Grace's laptop following her death.

There is evidence, in one of the latter conversations, that Grace may have met one of the men in person.

In these chats, Grace assumed a "submissive" role, and was given instructions of things to do when the pair met up.

She mentions she is new to submissive dominance, but says she is willing to try new things.

The defence has closed its case to the jury.

Grace Millane murder trial: Man details date with backpacker before she died
 
Does anyone know if the redacted/suppressed information that the ex-boyfriend came through with is ever going to be published? Or any information about the accused? Seems some journalists have been chatting and know what the go is.
 
Murdered Brit backpacker Grace Millane 'gave man list of her kinky sex fetishes'

“Just months before she was killed during a Tinder date, the university graduate from Essex spelled out exactly what she wanted to learn, including bondage, electrical nerve stimulation and “breath-play” using a gas mask."

"In Grace’s Whiplr profile she outlined her sub kink interests as: giving full control, sounds, accessories, restraints, control and massages"

“I can’t remember discussing any specific BDSM interests with Grace in detail but I think she was into Daddy Dom."

i knew it wouldn't take long for the media to start with the sensationalism ... i feel for her parents :(

Daily mail goes into more details..
Grace Millane gave a man she met through sex site a list of her fetish likes | Daily Mail Online
 
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It’s not using buzz words like “*advertiser censored* shaming” to prove our point. The witness before I went to bed seemed to serve no point besides pointing out she had had sex with him the night before.

He didn’t try and strangle her and served no purpose apart from pointing out she had sex with him.

IMO
 
All & Forward said:
The defense isn't trying to say it's her fault. The defense's job is to represent their client and get the best possible outcome. Ultimately, manslaughter is a better outcome for the accused than murder.

The differentiation between manslaughter and murder can be staked by all the information that's been brought up by witnesses.

In pretty simple terms, if she had previously wanted partners to put their hands around her neck and it's happened again, that's a lot more in line with manslaughter (more 'accidental') than him doing it with intent and/or premeditation (murder).
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Which is interesting, that that is your perception.

Mine however, couldn't be more different.

Up until the point that the defense put previous partners on the stand, from the snippets that have been published, I really thought wow I think I am heavily in the manslaughter outcome. There is way more than reasonable doubt to me that his account has some truth.

Now though, I can't believe a word of it. After learning that so many other men do this, with a light pressure applied briefly, multiple times with multiple women, because 'they (the women) enjoy it', I can't reconcile these accounts with what must have happened to Grace. Now I'm in no doubt that he knew he was murdering her
 
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