Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[Tortoise]

I'd be interested to see a room layout plan, to see where the kitchen and bathroom are, in relation to the bedroom.

 

[mrjitty]

Thanks for explaining, I am in the U.S. and suppression of an adult defendant's name is pretty much unthinkable here. Of course there is the presumption of innocence but it never extends to masking the identity of the defendant or even someone who is arrested but not charged. But if this guy is convicted there will be no doubt this suppression is lifted, corrected?

NZ still has a presumption of open justice like the US. But we do have some specific local law that differs to the UK.

There were be some very specific reason why the name is suppressed in this case and we don't know what it is.

Really everything is speculation until the trial is over.

 

[sunnynz]

Thanks for explaining, I am in the U.S. and suppression of an adult defendant's name is pretty much unthinkable here. Of course there is the presumption of innocence but it never extends to masking the identity of the defendant or even someone who is arrested but not charged. But if this guy is convicted there will be no doubt this suppression is lifted, corrected?

I would certainly think so the only time I can recall suppression continuing after conviction is in sexual assault cases or cases involving violence towards children - in those scenarios to protect the identity of the children.

 

[mrjitty]

No doubt she had worked out immediately, that a 26 yr/o in such a senior role, wouldn't in all likelihood be living in downtown Auckland, in transitory accommodation, dating backpackers for short term flings.

I've wondered if the guy is some kind of trustafarian

Living in a Citylife apartment doesn't come cheap, and it doesn't appear that he had a job

 

[mrjitty]

I would certainly think so the only time I can recall suppression continuing after conviction is in sexual assault cases or cases involving violence towards children - in those scenarios to protect the identity of the children.

Yes - that is one of the more likely scenarios.

My wild speculation is that the suppression is to protect a third party somehow. He has quite high powered representation.

 

[RubyLee87]

Re: Ameena Ashcroft, Grace’s friend, I was thinking the exact same thing. I hope she doesn’t feel too bad. Most people don’t like to preach to their friends about safety, especially at their age. I read in the Evening Standard (quote below) that she encouraged Grace to go to the hotel room and tell her about it the next day.

(‘ Miss Millane told her: “Mate, he lives in a hotel”, and Ms Ashcroft replied: “You have to go to his apartment in the hotel, bet it’s like the top floor.”’)

She must have felt awful about that in hindsight but it wasn’t her fault. Nobody would usually expect this to happen to their friend.

 

[Mariposa]

I've wondered if the guy is some kind of trustafarian

Living in a Citylife apartment doesn't come cheap, and it doesn't appear that he had a job

Yeah I was wondering if he was gainfully employed at this time last year.
It crossed my mind that maybe he was going through her purse to steal cash or other valuables.
The hotel room isn’t as impressive as I was picturing especially for ones primary residence but I suppose the location is the thing.

 

[jamjim]

"The Grace Millane murder trial will resume at 10am this morning.

The jury is expected to hear more expert forensic evidence from the lead scientist who conducted the scene examination of the CityLife hotel room."

Grace Millane murder trial: Forensic evidence about what was found at accused's apartment to be heard

 

[Hjp]

Yeah I was wondering if he was gainfully employed at this time last year.
It crossed my mind that maybe he was going through her purse to steal cash or other valuables.
The hotel room isn’t as impressive as I was picturing especially for ones primary residence but I suppose the location is the thing.

Absolutely, he based himself there to maximise his pool of potential women to choose from, the location for short notice dates, and the setup which is great:- as he has virtually no responsibility of doing or maintaining anything. His room would presumably be regularly cleaned by the hotel, and anything that needed servicing or fixing would too be managed by the hotel.

He was probably doing odd jobs on the fly, temp agency work, or making money illegally, although he may have been employed on standard office hours work so he could focus on his obsession with chasing women and arranging dates in the evenings.

I think he fancied himself as some sort of self-styled player rather than the carefree single oil manager on the prowl. The stylish image he employed was just there to impress and falsely woo as many women into bed as he could.

From what I've read from other folks that have met him. He comes across as a fake, unlikeable, loser that suffers from delusions of grandeur and reality.

 

[scapa]

Right, how convenient is it if throttling someone (let's face it, pretty much always a female someone) to death is now classified as accidental side effect of consensual sex, for which the male should not be held to account for or even, according to this guy's attorney, feel too bad about?

His actions with photographing her corpse and hopping right back on Tinder are beyond sinister. Even more sinister than disposing of the body IMO.

Speaking of Tinder was there anything in court about the timing of their Tinder connection or communications before they met up on Dec 1?

Not sure it this article has been posted -- not specific to this case but focuses on the recent rapid rise in this practice and its use as a "defence" in several cases that like look more like murder or manslaughter:

The fatal, hateful rise of choking during sex

 

[jamjim]

Expert forensic scientist Dianne Crenfeldt continues giving evidence about two blood stains found in the accused's room at the CityLife hotel.

Two roughly circular areas of probable blood staining were identified between the bed and the wardrobe.

The larger patch, nearest the bed, was 70cm in diameter and had some circular smearing within it.

The smaller patch, closer to the wardrobe, was 30cm in diameter and had a more defined circular shape.

"In my opinion this one could have come from a bucket," Crenfeldt told the jury.

The carpet underlay had red staining visible on both sides of the underlay and on the concrete floor, in both areas blood was found, she said.

"In my opinion, the shape of the probable blood staining and the presence of blood on the floor provided strong support that clean up of blood had occurred in this area."

Grace Millane murder trial: Forensic evidence about what was found at accused's apartment to be heard

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

Lots of these killers act up to their first murder

It reminds me a bit of the Jo Yeates case

Awful case

 

[jamjim]

She noticed no pulling or scuffing on the top layer of the carpet but "red staining" on the underside of the carpet was found and the concrete floor also showed "probable blood staining".

Crenfeldt said there was "strong support for the proposition that cleanup of blood had occurred in this area".

However, she was unable to say when such a cleanup may have occurred.

Further evidence of a possible cleanup included "circular marks and small drips in the circle", Crenfeldt added.

Blood containing liquid was also found, she said, which may have originated from a something like a bucket.

A series of footprints and smears and footprints with probable blood results were also discovered, Crenfeldt said.

Grace Millane murder trial: 'Strong support for cleanup of blood' in accused's apartment - expert

 

[jamjim]

Defence lawyer Ian Bookie asks Dianne Crenfeldt about DNA recovery in cross-examination.

" ... it's not uncommon for there to be much more limited recovery of DNA at some sites?" Brookie asked her.

Crenfeld agreed the process of decomposition results in the decreasing of DNA cells.

However, that does depend on the time factor for how long, what time of year, or if very wet conditions.

"Is six days a significant period for any loss of DNA present at a grave site?" Brookie confirms.

"I would say it's a moderate time but it's not unexpected that we recovered no DNA from the items of the grave," she said.

Grace Millane murder trial: Evidence of backpacker's demise 'cleaned up' from accused's apartment

 

[Mariposa]

I think he fancied himself as some sort of self-styled player rather than the carefree single oil manager on the prowl. The stylish image he employed was just there to impress and falsely woo as many women into bed as he could.

From what I've read from other folks that have met him. He comes across as a fake, unlikeable, loser that suffers from delusions of grandeur and reality.

Oil manager...... what a tool this guy is.

Hope he’s convicted and can be named and shamed globally

 

[Alyce]

Taken from Tortoise link above...

The Defence, however, says the jury shouldn't place undue weight on the accused's actions after the death, as that wouldn't help them decide what happened in the hotel room.


I find that odd, it would have a huge bearing for me as a juror.




Blood in hotel room at centre of Grace Millane murder trial

 

[jamjim]

Next, defence lawyer Ian Brookie asks forensic scientist Dianne Crenfeldt about blood stains detected in the accused's room - particularly asking how accurate the chemical luminol is in scene examinations.

"If someone has mixed blood with a cleaning product and moved it around, this could distort the original blood stain, correct?" Brookie asks her.

Crenfeldt said luminol was very sensitive and provided evidence not only of where blood was present, but offered a reconstruction of a clean up, and what was directly present after an event.

"It is possible the 70cm blood stain was a lot smaller and has been cleaned and spread out to be bigger," she told the jury.

The footprints detected showed only that someone with blood on their feet had walked around the apartment, she said.

Grace Millane murder trial: Evidence of backpacker's demise 'cleaned up' from accused's apartment

 

[Mariposa]

Taken from Tortoise link above...

The Defence, however, says the jury shouldn't place undue weight on the accused's actions after the death, as that wouldn't help them decide what happened in the hotel room.


I find that odd, it would have a huge bearing for me as a juror.




Blood in hotel room at centre of Grace Millane murder trial

Of course the defense wants the jury to disregard the actions the defendant took after Grace’s death - because they make him look like a complete void of a human being. And provide important evidence of what can be inferred to have happened to her at his hands.

Not just disposing of her body in a manner he hoped meant she was never found to be laid to rest by her family in the UK

But porning it up next to her dead body, taking pictures of her to further desecrate and wring some additional sick sexual gratification out of her even in death

trolling for his next Tinder date
Etc

 

[jamjim]

The court has adjourned for a 15 minute break.

Grace Millane murder trial: Evidence of backpacker's demise 'cleaned up' from accused's apartment

 

[jamjim]

Grace Millane murder trial: 'Somebody with blood on their feet moved around the room'