Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest*

[libramoon175]

I'm really confused about the blood. Sorry if someone's cleared it up already. Initially I thought maybe he did it to fit her in the suitcase, but I just read somewhere she was 'contorted'. Yet she died from asphyxiation. He can't have stabbed her or otherwise injured her before she died from being choked, because then he couldn't claim that it was an accident during sex. So that leaves the option of him stabbing her after she was dead? Or am I missing something?

 

[Legally Bland]

I'm really confused about the blood. Sorry if someone's cleared it up already. Initially I thought maybe he did it to fit her in the suitcase, but I just read somewhere she was 'contorted'. Yet she died from asphyxiation. He can't have stabbed her or otherwise injured her before she died from being choked, because then he couldn't claim that it was an accident during sex. So that leaves the option of him stabbing her after she was dead? Or am I missing something?

I think this is the only explanation so far, not sure if it explains the amount of blood though.

A side effect of strangulation is bleeding through the nose, McCoubrey said, because the act creates a dam in the head where the blood pools.

RSBM.

 

[libramoon175]

I think this is the only explanation so far, not sure if it explains the amount of blood though.

RSBM.

Thanks, I'm SURE it can't be that. The luminol appeared to show tons of blood.

 

[Mariposa]

I'm really confused about the blood. Sorry if someone's cleared it up already. Initially I thought maybe he did it to fit her in the suitcase, but I just read somewhere she was 'contorted'. Yet she died from asphyxiation. He can't have stabbed her or otherwise injured her before she died from being choked, because then he couldn't claim that it was an accident during sex. So that leaves the option of him stabbing her after she was dead? Or am I missing something?

I am not sure but haven't seen anything about stabbing..I was wondering if he hit her in the face or caused internal injuries she bled from. However all I've read is she had bruising on chest and upper arms? I think strangulation could cause some bleeding from the nose/ ears etc but it seems to be an awful lot based on the Luminol in the hotel room. I was wondering if the pictures he took of her dead showed anything of injuries although it sounds like those might have been very zoomed in pictures (shudder--so so awful the fact that he took those and wanted them for later, shows utter contempt for her)

 

[CrazyLilBlondie]

Wow. That's 13 cocktails, 4 tequilas, 3 beers and a jug of sangria. In 3 hours. I think it's fair to assume they were a bit tipsy

According to Grace Millane murder trial: CCTV shows moment alleged killer and victim meet, and fatal date he had 4 beers (2 round of 2) before he even met Grace. Nothing states he was with anyone before he met her.

"CCTV footage outlines where both Millane and her alleged killer where before her death.

At 5.11pm on December 1 the accused went to the Bluestone Room bar and purchased four beers - two Heineken's at 5.14pm and another two at 5.29pm.

Police obtained the receipts for the beers, which the accused is seen drinking at an outside table.

At 5.40pm the accused left the Bluestone Room."

 

[Sooty]

I'm really confused about the blood. Sorry if someone's cleared it up already. Initially I thought maybe he did it to fit her in the suitcase, but I just read somewhere she was 'contorted'. Yet she died from asphyxiation. He can't have stabbed her or otherwise injured her before she died from being choked, because then he couldn't claim that it was an accident during sex. So that leaves the option of him stabbing her after she was dead? Or am I missing something?

I think the luminol shows up all traces of blood - he had tried to clean the area with a hired carpet cleaner, no doubt causing dilution and spread of any blood spots. Just my opinion, but I think that would account for the patches shown.

 

[Hjp]

Just catching up from 4 pages back. So many new posts in the last 24 hours.

I can't believe some of the revelations I've read. Nosing in you're date's handbag when she is in the loo/bar. Jesus christ!.

To tilting her head forward from the back as if she couldn't decide herself if she wanted a kiss, but then start stroking her hair like a cat in public.!!... Is this for real.

I hope he enjoyed himself that night becouse I pray he will never get the chance to meet another woman again, or will be too old to by the time he is released on parole.

 

[Elainera]

Thanks, I'm SURE it can't be that. The luminol appeared to show tons of blood.

Luminol also highlights other bodily fluids, possibly it wasn't all blood?

 

[jiffajaffa31]

Luminol also highlights other bodily fluids, possibly it wasn't all blood?

Do we know if they have been able to say for certain that the traces of blood/fluid highlighted by the Luminol came from poor Grace? I was just thinking , as it's a hotel room it may have had a lot of previous use so certain bodily fluid spillages from previous hotel guests may have occured eg vomiting etc

 

[Elainera]

Do we know if they have been able to say for certain that the traces of blood/fluid highlighted by the Luminol came from poor Grace? I was just thinking , as it's a hotel room it may have had a lot of previous use so certain bodily fluid spillages from previous hotel guests may have occured eg vomiting etc

You're right it could be from previous guests, or older stains from himself too. We don't know yet whether all stains were blood and if so, if it was Grace's. I guess we will find out as the trial proceeds.

 

[stephaniejanes]

You're right it could be from previous guests, or older stains from himself too. We don't know yet whether all stains were blood and if so, if it was Grace's. I guess we will find out as the trial proceeds.

I think you're right, no doubt forensics testimony today will explain a lot.

One thing I noticed on the luminol pictures was there appears to have been blood along the lower part of the walls / skirting boards.

Makes me think of blood spatter, potentially coughed blood (from the nose bleed) on the carpet and lower walls. If so, that goes against his story of thinking Grace was well and had left.

Also seeing the pics made me realise how small and enclosed the space was, his explanation gets more and more absurd as the evidence comes to light.

 

[jamjim]

"The jurors will hear further evidence on Friday about what forensic scientists found inside the apartment of the man accused of murdering British backpacker Grace Millane.

ESR scientist Dianne Crenfeldt told the High Court in Auckland on Thursday that, with the help of a chemical test called luminol, scientists could clearly identify two patches of blood on the carpet of the Queen St hotel room.

That is despite the Crown's case that the accused, who has name suppression, hired a carpet cleaner and bought cleaning products in an effort to hide the murder in his CityLive apartment."

Forensic evidence to continue in murder trial of British backpacker Grace Millane

 

[sunnynz]

New to this story. Can someone tell me if witholding a name is common in NZ?

Someone else answered no to this but I respectfully disagree with that. I many high profile murder cases we do know the name but there are also plenty where we don’t. In initial court appearances the name is almost always suppressed. By the time trial comes around a lot of the time we know but sometimes we don’t. Murder we usually know. Drugs we often don’t. The law was initially designed to protect the innocent who were charged with crimes - so it didn’t mess up they’re lives forever! (And to protect identities of victims in sexual assault cases). However the supppression thing is really a farce these days, with the internet and different laws for media in different countries you can easily find out the names of the suppressed in most cases.

 

[sunnynz]

I’m confused about the blood too. To my untrained eye this looks like too much blood to have just come trickling from her nose as a result of the strangulation. Yet I feel like the summary of facts at the start of the case would have detailed other injuries already?

 

[jamjim]

It sounds as though there will be a lot more discussion in court today with regards to the blood found in the room. Will be very interesting to see what's said.

 

[Mariposa]

From what I see online about Luminol it really should not react indiscriminately with body fluids in general. It reacts with the iron in hemoglobin, a component of blood. The wiki page for Luminol does say it can react with fecal matter and it can also react with certain bleach solutions.

 

[Mariposa]

Someone else answered no to this but I respectfully disagree with that. I many high profile murder cases we do know the name but there are also plenty where we don’t. In initial court appearances the name is almost always suppressed. By the time trial comes around a lot of the time we know but sometimes we don’t. Murder we usually know. Drugs we often don’t. The law was initially designed to protect the innocent who were charged with crimes - so it didn’t mess up they’re lives forever! (And to protect identities of victims in sexual assault cases). However the supppression thing is really a farce these days, with the internet and different laws for media in different countries you can easily find out the names of the suppressed in most cases.

Thanks for explaining, I am in the U.S. and suppression of an adult defendant's name is pretty much unthinkable here. Of course there is the presumption of innocence but it never extends to masking the identity of the defendant or even someone who is arrested but not charged. But if this guy is convicted there will be no doubt this suppression is lifted, corrected?

 

[Kaly99]

Luminol is a presumptive test for blood, and from memory it can also react to bleach, red wine and fruit juice! That's why a second, confirmatory test is usually carried out to confirm the presence of blood.

From the language used here - these were described as "potential" blood stains - it sounds to me as if either the confirmatory tests weren't carried out, or they were negative.

Given that we know he bought cleaning products, it seems possible the luminol was reacting to those products and not blood (or even some substance left by hotel cleaners or previous occupants of the room). Certainly if she had no other major injuries, it's difficult to imagine that strangulation could've led to that amount of blood. But I guess we'll see what information comes out as the trial progresses.

 

[Tortoise]

Multiple vertical drops of blood were found on the fridge, which Crenfeldt said was likely the result of blood being flicked off an object. She said it was possible the object the blood came off was a body part.

[...]

The blood and other evidence from the scene will be the key focus of Friday's proceedings, with Crenfeldt set to take the stand again.

Blood in hotel room at centre of Grace Millane murder trial

 

[Hjp]

'Ameena Ashcroft' (Grace's friend from Lincoln university), I feel is an overlooked victim in this case. Having known Grace very well back in the UK, she was also one of the last people to converse with Grace before she entered the hotel.

Her account of the conversation they had was that Ameena was alarmed by Grace's description of her date. Grace had described the suspect to her as an "oil manager" with no proper "fixed address".

No doubt she had worked out immediately, that a 26 yr/o in such a senior role, wouldn't in all likelihood be living in downtown Auckland, in transitory accommodation, dating backpackers for short term flings.

She was right to be unnerved, but she clearly did not want to spoil Grace's enjoyment of the date with talk of safety, suspicion and fears. Had she acted, she may well have been able to change Grace's course and save her life.

But she wasn't to know. I feel very sorry for her. I hope she does not blame herself for what happened. It is a difficult call in those circumstances when you have a gut feeling that something is wrong: but in the end what can you do?.